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[avv]

Less damage, perks traits S.P.E.C.I.A.L there is just too many defenses agiasnt this weapon. It should be able to kill with less shots than being a complete useless shit weapon that just does a knock out, just look at the video I shot this big guner probably about 8-10 times 4 were knock outs and he still gets up and lives its total crap in balance sniper rifle should be able to kill and be good weapon. Sniper rifle with more damage would bring something more interesting and tactical to the game than the same old stupid shit rocket launcher/avenger swarm fighting.

Remember that you can also shoot 10 rockets or bursts at someone and he can survive by taking stims.

In addition many big gunners do have some crit resistance indeed, mostly bonehead that does truly help against headshots. But it doesn't help against groinshots that can cause good knockouts. Personally I shoot big gunners in the arms or groin and other snipers in the head and eyes.

Instead of buffing the eyeshots, it could be even reasonable to buff torso shots. Torso could have high crit-chance by default, but no effects like KO or cripples. Only more damage and knockdowns. This way if your enemy is highly resistant to crits in general, you could always shoot in torso for guaranteed effect. Because it's not fair for snipers that some builds are simply immune against their attacks.

If you recall last session, players did complain about powerful crits and chain-knockouts. The reason was the head/eyes was the best target to aim. It caused most damage and best effects. I'd say it's better that some bodyparts cause only effects or only damage so that snipers have to switch where they aim depending on situation.

[Fat Man]

Remember that you can also shoot 10 rockets or bursts at someone and he can survive by taking stims.

In addition many big gunners do have some crit resistance indeed, mostly bonehead that does truly help against headshots. But it doesn't help against groinshots that can cause good knockouts. Personally I shoot big gunners in the arms or groin and other snipers in the head and eyes.

Instead of buffing the eyeshots, it could be even reasonable to buff torso shots. Torso could have high crit-chance by default, but no effects like KO or cripples. Only more damage and knockdowns. This way if your enemy is highly resistant to crits in general, you could always shoot in torso for guaranteed effect. Because it's not fair for snipers that some builds are simply immune against their attacks.

If you recall last session, players did complain about powerful crits and chain-knockouts. The reason was the head/eyes was the best target to aim. It caused most damage and best effects. I'd say it's better that some bodyparts cause only effects or only damage so that snipers have to switch where they aim depending on situation.

Well tubad if they complained the sniper was good alternative to fighting big gunners. Now there is too many defenses agiasnt them and its a big gunner session. What is the advantage to a sniper exactly you go in with 20 snipers vs 20 big gunners and maybe 5 big gunners well die by focus fire maybe some get knocked out and well get back up eat stims there needs to be something more interesting and tactical to the sniper, like being able to kill big gunners at long range but if big gunner gets close sniper dies its pretty balanced without making them complete shit useless relying on luck to do a 20 damage knock out here and there.

[avv]

Well tubad if they complained the sniper was good alternative to fighting big gunners.

I have to disagree. Big gunners being strong is much better than having snipers - that rely on luck - to dominate. Besides, in tc and pvp in general snipers see most action. They get most targets to shoot and thus we could say they "have most fun" because they are aware of what's going on. Big gunners just have to wait in formations with their shitty perception and participate in rushes. That was very common in last session. Now big gunners have more action and actually have people to shoot at instead of being the final nail in the coffin like in last session.

Now there is too many defenses agiasnt them and its a big gunner session.

True, it was requested. Some players just don't want to be victims to knockdowns, I think it's fair to spend some perks and use some gear to defend yourself against them. It's not surprising that bgs choose anti-crit perks because nobody want's to be knocked out. It's because there's nothing you can do about it. Against normal fire you just take cover and eat stims and shoot back, you can affect your chances. But when lucky crit hits, you can't help it. Good players don't like it that they can't help their situation, they want to minimize randomness.

What is the advantage to a sniper exactly you go in with 20 snipers vs 20 big gunners and maybe 5 big gunners well die by focus fire maybe some get knocked out and well get back up eat stims there needs to be something more interesting and tactical to the sniper, like being able to kill big gunners at long range but if big gunner gets close sniper dies its pretty balanced without making them complete shit useless relying on luck to do a 20 damage knock out here and there.

Interesting and tactical exactly. But not random and luck-based. Tactical means situational, that's good because results depend on how the player uses the tactical tools in each situation.
For example shooting a running gay in the leg should have increased chance to cause knockdown.

But first there needs to be something valuable that snipers need to risk. Possible solution is to add crit-penalties to mundane guns and ammo. Then add a bonus for quality weapons and add quality ammo types that can only be crafted or bought with caps. Quality ammo would have crit-table and chance bonus.

In very simple way it'd be like this: crafted, glowlooted or purchased 100/100% plasma rifle has +10% crit chance. Same with laser rifle. But farmed 40/40% laser can't have this bonus no matter what.


 

[Fat Man]

Big gunners always had the action and what because a few people cry baby that their big gunner died by a sniper because they didn't pick stonelol that we have to nerf snipers entirely for this shit session?

I just think it gets boring when the only build that dominates PvP is rocket launchers and avengers. There should be something more interesting to play than some max hp, max toughness anti-crit big gunner.

I do not enjoy playing big gunner even though that is what the game forces me to play becuase nothing competes agiasnt big gunner any more. You can only counter tanks with tanks and it just becomes of a fight who clicks who first and fast relogs with more characters. This PvP is not interesting and nowhere as fun as last session when we had plasma tanks and snipers.

Snipers were not all that dominate last session if big gunner got close all they had to do was burst it twice dead sniper or fire a couple of rockets.

Like I say eye shots that do more than crap knock downs and 20 damage would be a nice feature, you have to line up an eye shot perfectly this doesn't always happen in every fight. And in some PvP towns a sniper is not a wise choice.

I mean come on we have big gunners who can take toughness, bonehead, stonewall man of steel, helmets that do -10 to -20 on crit table is just too much. Boohoo your big gunner got knocked out and killed by a good sniper build get over it we don't need the entire PvP aspect of the game to revolve around tank big gunners.

There has to be something that kill BG tanks and the choice used to be sniper becuase you could knock out and do a decent bypass with an eye shot from a long distance. Now this is not an option other than being some stupid crap support build which doesn't kill anything. Its actually more pathetic than making a small gun bursters hell even small gun bursters do more damage, but small gun bursters are complete shit also.


We got laser sniper? These builds are also crap on eye shots 50 damage critical with a knock down huge advantage. Plasma tank HA this weapon is a joke and it has to be crafted and farmed from enclave and its worse than a laser rifle.

So what does that leave us, critical bursters? Agian another big guns build.

[Roachor]

Not to mention crits are so perk heavy that 290 hp isn't possible.

[brad smalls]

Maybe remove crits and incresse base damage of weapons like sniper laser and plasma

[kox]

avv dont talk farytail, bg gunners whit shity perc.? Snipers have more fun? Wtf u talking about? Snipers can move back from bullet range and fire couple (moust case shit) shoots then bg gunners come for his head.To much bg gunners give u clear picture off this seasson pvp and thats it.Buff at least dmg hit sniper char if u dont wont to buff annything else coz dmg is ridicilous also as helmet, and shame for sniper whitch is lvling to 24 lvl isnt that easy like big gunner.
I love play whit sniper rlly but for pvp cant say that is sooo fun.
devs better if u erase sniper rifle, from game and listen to all whinners so finnaly name that game bgfoonline ss 2238
Bah

[avv]

avv dont talk farytail, bg gunners whit shity perc.? Snipers have more fun? Wtf u talking about? Snipers can move back from bullet range and fire couple (moust case shit) shoots then bg gunners come for his head.

What I mean is that if you have more PE and gunrange, you obviously have more targets to shoot at. Meaning that you know what's going on in general and have more fun because there's more targets to click.

Those big gunners won't get to you if you got a line of friendly bgs to stop them. That's why tc balance is okay but snipers as solo aren't recommended. It can be witnessed in hinkley.

To much bg gunners give u clear picture off this seasson pvp and thats it.Buff at least dmg hit sniper char if u dont wont to buff annything else coz dmg is ridicilous also as helmet, and shame for sniper whitch is lvling to 24 lvl isnt that easy like big gunner.

Actually the damage is quite okay if the bypasses worked as they used to. If you shoot someone who has luck1 with sniper, it realistically does over 100 dmg per crit.
But why snipers were overpowered in last session was that head and eye crits were too powerful. They had no only the best damage, but also the best crit chance and best chance to cause KO and KD. To achieve good balance, a single bodypart shouldn't cause best damage and best effects. Only either.

[Fat Man]

Actually the damage is quite okay if the bypasses worked as they used to. If you shoot someone who has luck1 with sniper, it realistically does over 100 dmg per crit.
But why snipers were overpowered in last session was that head and eye crits were too powerful. They had no only the best damage, but also the best crit chance and best chance to cause KO and KD. To achieve good balance, a single bodypart shouldn't cause best damage and best effects. Only either.

First off nobody rolls builds with 1 luck in PvP, it was already stated that knock down knock out has nothing to do with luck stat. But sniper had 111-160 hp and would die in seconds if big gunners got to close a sniper wasn't that over powered unless you were one of those cry babies who couldn't handle dying in a fight becuase of knock out. You know a sniper can shoot 50 hexes but all a big gunner with stonewall had to do last session was walk 15 hexes and burst them game over for sniper.

Sniper builds are generally weak low HP and make up for it in range so basically at the state of the game we have a 111-187 hp snipers which use jet and have -15% dr that do no damage rarely causs a good critical other than a 20 damage knock out here and there. Snipers die easily its not over powered its balanced its called paper build you take critical perks to do most damage possible while sacrificing health, toughness and anti-crit abilities. I think it was fair last session because there has to be something to counter a 280 hp max toughness rl tank, or any big gunner for that matter. There is too many perks and now a trait that defend agiasnt snipers.

Also last session eye shots actually worked and had a better crit table, and eye shots you had to line up. Big gunners does its damage 100% of time doesn't rely on luck and does its was guarenteed to do its max damage potential shooting in any direction. A sniper didn't, a sniper had to be in perfect line of site to the eyes and this was not always easy to pull off took some skill in the big chaos everybody running around like organized chickens that we call town control.

I am sorry but fast relog big gun battles is not really my idea of fun I like would to switch it up for once and play sniper or laser without it being total shit.

Also sniper was a good choice for somebody like me who doesn't even live on the same continent of the server who constaly moon walks when trying to one hex on a big gunner, I hate playing burster for this reason.

Just get off your sneakers for once AVV and play your avv0 for a few fights and you will see what me and others are talking about.

[avv]

What I was trying to point out was that old head/eyecrits were too powerful because they came with knockout + 4x bypass damage.
It should work so that aimed shots that cause knockouts, shouldn't also cause massive damage. Because then there's no reason to shoot anywhere else.
For example now nobody aims at torso. Torso could be a target to do lots of damage while head&eyes were for kos and kds. So basically:

- Reduce head/eyes damage multiplier
- Increase torso critchance and damage. (Torso could have like 60% base critchance to encourage low-range crit builds like pistolero and plasma)
- Add critchance and power bonuses for quality weapons and ammo
- Return bypass chance or make it related to armors and weapons rather than luck

[davrot]

Just don't endanger my bg builds.

There, I shortened it for you.

[Roachor]

Avv what are you talking about? with bonehead and man o steel eye shots are total crap, you haven't been noticing people just shoot limbs now? the 4 times dmg multiplier isn't enough when sniper only does like 35 dmg, best possible crit is 140 minus armour so you need at least 2-3 to kill someone.

[avv]

Avv what are you talking about? with bonehead and man o steel eye shots are total crap, you haven't been noticing people just shoot limbs now? the 4 times dmg multiplier isn't enough when sniper only does like 35 dmg, best possible crit is 140 minus armour so you need at least 2-3 to kill someone.

What I'm talking about is that in last session people complained about crits because the head&eyeshots came with best damage and knockouts. So best way to have balanced crits would be to divide the aimshots into those that do effects (cripples, kos, kds) and those that do damage. Otherwise everyone will just aim in eyes and rest bodyparts are just fillers.
I'm fully aware that snipers can't kill high hp targets. For example my groinshooter sniper simply can't do it because the damage output is so bad. But he can KO people just fine.

[Fat Man]

-snip-

- Reduce head/eyes damage multiplier

This has already been done why its complete shit. You have this +40 critical defense and stonewall if you were to take all these perks, traits and combat helmets on top of it. 150 bypass is needed vs a 290 hp big gunner you forget that people have 290 hp? So lets reduce these crits to do 5 damage now so the max hp rocket launcher is only thing used still, this changes nothing, big gunner is even more dominate.

I don't understand why we have 290hp but sniper builds were changed so they do worse damage. Begining of session had it right but the changes to RBtE changed this.

- Increase torso critchance and damage. (Torso could have like 60% base critchance to encourage low-range crit builds like pistolero and plasma)

What so we can sit there and shoot it 4 times in a fight with a fast shot build? Its fine way it is what is wrong with eye head shots doing good amount of damage requires more skill points and action points to use. The sniper shot requires the most AP out of all the builds, and it doesn't make up for anything.

- Add critchance and power bonuses for quality weapons and ammo

Yes its good idea also makes the LSW less shit also if .223 had some special critical feature.

- Return bypass chance or make it related to armors and weapons rather than luck

This has already been done why we have full DR amors but the deterioration % determines the chance to reduce bypasses.




AVV please just play sniper for once all I see is you running around on big gunners and sneakers you do not play sniper enough as far as I see to understand what is wrong with the sniper.

Avv what are you talking about? with bonehead and man o steel eye shots are total crap, you haven't been noticing people just shoot limbs now? the 4 times dmg multiplier isn't enough when sniper only does like 35 dmg, best possible crit is 140 minus armour so you need at least 2-3 to kill someone.

Yes reduce the multiplier when a normal none critical shot on that unlucky roll does 4-6 damage, lets reduce it to x2 for top critical roll so we can now do 12 damage isntead of 50-60 on a bonehead build.

[Mike Crosser]

There, I shortened it for you.

He is right,stop trying to save BG critical hitters and ruin all other builds.