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[Frozen Mind]

All these problems are based on the fact that people can have unlimited amount of mercs. However the system has now been reworked, so it uses references to keep track of mercs. After wipe, it'll be possible to have only 5 mercs at most, globally.

The equal of more alting. Factions want base safe from taggers and offensives. These restrictions again kick ass of simple and legal players. It's like people crush cars being drunk. Lets prohibit an alcohol! It's not real because politics like an alcohol, but here on 2238 developers are not having problems with taggers, thieves and base raiders.

On encounters/caravans/towns problem was that same character keeps coming back with more and more mutants. Why not to block local number? If you are leading NPC followers which are braking the limit, you simply can't get into the encounter/town.

And again. The problem is morality and exploiting, which simply can not be disabled, because of fucked human nature. Some players just can't loose and do everything to win. Including alting, exploiting, boting and it won't change. Algorithms can't block everything, it's why there are game masters.

[Ghosthack]

Still... Ghosthack but why not limit number of mutants that you can bring with you? Let's say you can bring only 1 with 10 charisma and 1 other merc.
It would solve mutant spam problem as they wouldn't be that usefull on battlefield ("10 charisma only to bring one mutant? meh").
If I understand correctly what you suggest is that you can still have 5 supermutants with you on character just you can't have more hidden in tent and to get reinforcments you need to first buy new ones... With alts it really ain't that big problem...

Alts is always a problem. This doesn't have much do with this specific mechanic. I'd say just about any feature is affected by it.

As I understand it Ghosthack said you will be able to have 5 mercs and 5 mercs only no matter how many are in the group with you. Simply 5 mercs whenever you have them, you wont be able to buy 6th.

This is correct.

1 supermutant merc = 400 hp, 100 dmg with rocket launcher... for funny price. Can you imagine, what will Adam Smith said?

 Make karma for supermutant mercs.. If you lost him in fight, you will have to wait one day...

Starting price will be higher than before, also, every time a mutant is recruited, the price increases. I think Adam Smith would be really happy that we have basic market economy here, this is more than most other games.

The equal of more alting. Factions want base safe from taggers and offensives. These restrictions again kick ass of simple and legal players. It's like people crush cars being drunk. Lets prohibit an alcohol! It's not real because politics like an alcohol, but here on 2238 developers are not having problems with taggers, thieves and base raiders.

On encounters/caravans/towns problem was that same character keeps coming back with more and more mutants. Why not to block local number? If you are leading NPC followers which are braking the limit, you simply can't get into the encounter/town.

And again. The problem is morality and exploiting, which simply can not be disabled, because of fucked human nature. Some players just can't loose and do everything to win. Including alting, exploiting, boting and it won't change. Algorithms can't block everything, it's why there are game masters.

You make it sound like thievery, taggers and base raiders is something undesirable. Why not just remove a couple of skills like steal, lockpick and sneak then? We are not going to dumb down this game ad inifintum and make it a 100% safe experience for everyone. There's already a lot of hoarding going on in bases instead of trading.

[Raengar]

The only one opposing me who talks sense here is Sius. Hold tight of him, yoiu got a good gang leader. Lordus, seriously, please do not bother to answer my posts again - you are taking everything personally, and I am not interested in troll fighting.

I agree that mutants maybe should cost a bit more. This, plus a 5-per-player restriction will probably solve your concerns. If not, we can always ask devs for better solution. I do not see using artillery a bad thing. Diversity in a game is always good. And it is not like you can't win without mutants, we fight vs them and we win. Maybe you just need more training - if you fancy yourselves PvP players - or you could enjoy other sides of the game, and go roleplay in Hub or NCR.

I am not trying to offend anyone, but PvP is wasteland should remain harsh. We were losing most of the time when we were outnumbered, 10 vs 50, but did you see a single "suggestion" from us back then? I don't think so.

Good luck post-wipe. I am sure we will find ways to dominate PvP again, because this is what DMC players get fun from.

P.S. And one more thing. If you think PK-ing is bad, play some PvP free game. This is Fallout, you know. Post-apoc, blood everywhere, low moral. This is what makes the game attractive for many of us, don't spoil fun for many people because it is no fun for you.

[Lordus]

 Sius did not play this era. I respect him, but he has no experience with this..

 I am not taking everything personaly.. i only continue in discusion. You wrote up some statements and i disprove them. What is wrong whit this. And it looks that most of pvp players disagree with you, not only me.

 Tell me, when NA has 50 players? This is kind of urban legend. If we have 30 players, many of them are not pure PvP or leveled up. Like yesterday fight in Den. From VSB we have cca 6 players per day ready to PvP, not more for last week.

 5 NPC per person will not solve anything. Now you have 5 per person. It is no change.

 You dont get the point. I agree that PK is part of game. You PK everyone, we PK you.. you have role, we have role too. But our role brings many players which wants to cooperate with us, not with you. And we are proud, we can cooperate with them. As i wrote, it is not easy, always there are problems in relationship between gangs and individuals, but existence of NA proves that it is possible to make this king of alliance. So it is sad, you need to use NPC instead of real players. But i accept this, i accept that you try to erase difference in stenght between gangs. But this supermutant swarm is too much. Very cheap, very powerful and fastrelog... this is not the reason why we play this game.

[RJ]

Player with 4-5 mutants is way too overpowerd - how can you not see that? They might be slow but they got lots of HP and when use brain and enter with them at specific time from WM nobody can stop them.
Just limit number of supermutants that you can carry around to 1 or 2 and problem will dissapear and add  limit that you can have supermutant only when your charisma is above 6-8. Fact that you can have 5 tanks with you makes PvP unbalanced.

Exploits with cash (which will exist during whole beta process I bet) and system that you can have only 5 mercenaries on one character will only lead to alt promotion again and not solve problem, Ghosthack. Good job.

 

[Red Dot]

I am not trying to offend anyone, but PvP is wasteland should remain harsh. We were losing most of the time when we were outnumbered, 10 vs 50, but did you see a single "suggestion" from us back then? I don't think so.

True, fighting against NA is like... yesterday battle DMC vs NA in Den   Swarm - this time DMC swarm Mutants but other time you do this whith huge alliance and how 10-12 DMC can fight against 30+ players on wm and spawned on grid when they enter??

[Alvarez]

Every game is about exploits, finding, using or eliminating them.

As long it doesn't cripple the gameplay permanently, it's considered as continuous development process.
Or a war between two factions and one faction getting pissed.

Anyway, even if nobody gives a damn, leaving mutants camping grids should be considered as abusing.
Yay, we need no PKs anymore. Everything money can buy should suffice - you don't even need to be online, just log in and get your loot.

[Badger]

To solve people alting to place more guards in a base, is there a way you can place a hard limit on how many NPCs can be set to guard on a map?

If there's over 10 or so, they just say something like 'This place looks pretty well guarded to me, I'm not wasting my time'.

[Sius]

Well one thing should be implemented right away. If you use your mercs as suicidal maniacs that should do the hard work instead of you they die often. But for every dead mercs his owner should get some -reputation or something and when he reaches certain point, no mercenaries will come with him no matter how big cash he have with him (who want to die being rich for 5 min  eh?). Again I mention slavery idea here at forums its just brilliant and it could be used at merc system too.

And Lordus not playing does not equal not knowing. I think I have pretty good picture about current game even when I'm inactive.

[Shangalar]

I guess you all should just keep your ideas, and when you'll have proofs that devs' future changes aren't sufficient, just open a suggestions thread again !

Until then, do as me : try to wait for that nasty changelog and take a horde of bitches in black instead of these green freaks !

[Raengar]

Anyway, even if nobody gives a damn, leaving mutants camping grids should be considered as abusing.
Yay, we need no PKs anymore. Everything money can buy should suffice - you don't even need to be online, just log in and get your loot.

With all respect - Bullshit. Buy 5 mutants and camp some grid with them. You will find them dead in no time. Buy 20 - and the "no time" will be just a bit longer =)

As for slavery system, I like it too, and would love to see it in action. Reputation for mercs... I don't know =) Maybe should try too. I am not nervous - now that DMC player count have reached some critical number (>10 online most of the time) we will survive anyway. Striop us of the artillery - we will find more ways to prosper =)

Btw. I also use mutant artillery unit to farm caravans. Evil me.

[Alvarez]

Striop us of the artillery - we will find more ways to prosper =)

It's only natural.

If someone has his FUN suddenly CUT by devs, he will develop WAYS to bypass it.
That's why exploits, autoclicks, money leaks, chest seeds and mining bots exist and are being developed.
People don't want to have their fun blocked by some stupid cooldown.
And they're driven by greed.

This results into more restriction rampage by devs, which concerns everyone. And then people complain, lose their interest, go play Gaia or some shit and finally leave the game.
But hey, Wasteland is... Harsh, you say? It's merciless. Senseless. Unforgiving and unfair. It's the incarnation of Sviborg.

But i wonder, how successful FOnline would be without Fallout background.

[Surf]

But i wonder, how successful FOnline would be without Fallout background.

It would still be popular imo. And so much of fallouts background isn't in FOnline (currently).

And yeah, that "wasteland is harsh" thing is amusing me too. As if the world in other RPGs or MMOs or whatever isn't "harsh".
There are medieval games where a  rogue with arrows and a bow can easily shoot you in the face. Where you're getting robbed, killed, etc. Also space games, sci fi games etc. All those MMOs are mostly playing in a harsh enviroment. So the "wasteland is harsh" arguement is utter bullshit.

[Rynn]

You should all keep in mind one things: for now, mercs, and especialy mutants, are the only way for a no warrior char to take part of fight, and fight are one of the most important part of fonline.

Diversity in a game is always good.

I'm not agree with you Raengar. Diversity is not only a good thing, it's one of the most important thing for a game !

For now we have critical characters, Fast shot characters... don't make useless charismatic character.

[Marko69]

To have 30 people on mumble and whine because I lose against 15 from dmc, I'd be ashamed of my self, at least...
Our people are active day and night crafting planing leveling scouting, almost having no life. You and your pathetic whining can go somewhere else.
I'm a strategy gamer btw  

btw there should be a way to earn money in the wasteland, selling brahmins not bad, but something with real profit so they don't whine about how we got many mutant merc etc...
trader npc should have more caps and get more over time! -_-