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[Kelin]

In case lsw didn't have a sneak penalty and I would be able to obtain it (which I'm not) be sure I'd use it, I loved my lsw sneaker. Basically the only sneak perk you would need is silent running, so with 3x brd, some lifegivers, lsw would become an ultimate killing machine, again. Only weapon which is little overpowered are plasma nades, however they have some limits, too (low range).

[Simon]

Last session lsw, rocket and plasma nade sneaks were pretty balanced, now some cheap plasma nade sneaker is op and you can't use lsw sneaks properly.

[Solar]

I agree on the TC system, it needs work but i feel the grenades should have less damage with silent death, its insane with the 200+ damage crit.

Simple enough to stop grenades working with SD ... or indeed stop Plasmas being so common, which should happen anyway.

[avv]

Simple enough to stop grenades working with SD ... or indeed stop Plasmas being so common, which should happen anyway.

Second most powerful are aimed SD shots with laser pistol, which is also very easy to get and has incredible damage when it crits. Bluesuits wielding only laser pistol aren't very rare sight these days.

Maybe sd should just do a certain bypass when shooting from behind while sneaked?
Then it would be okay with plasmagrens and pretty much any weapon. Could even test if burst wouldn't be too powerful so that smg sneakers can make a return. Sd could work with rifle and shotgun weapons aswell just fine.

[manero]

Plasmas being so common...

Everything will be common, its a matter of time.

[Nice_Boat]

Simple enough to stop grenades working with SD ... or indeed stop Plasmas being so common, which should happen anyway.

Why would you do that? That'd just make a lot of builds obsolete and it's not like SD is the dominant force in PvP anyway. It'd be a knee-jerk reaction nerf because some people couldn't be arsed to watch their back and raged on the forums because of getting killed. The fact is that it's enough to make a few random turns and/or stand with your back to the wall to prevent 99% of sneakers from killing you and when you're moving in a group that has sneaker cover you're next to untouchable for them. How is that overpowered? It just enhances the game with another build/tactic that works in very specific conditions, introduces more tension to combat and requires some skill to make it work. Oh, and do note that sneakers need this kind of damage (which can be inflicted only when their target is standing with his back exposed long enough to setup that killshot), because the moment they desneak with a combat build around they're dead, as simple as that.

[avv]

How is that overpowered? It just enhances the game with another build/tactic that works in very specific conditions and requires some skill to make it work.

Because you can kill bgs that can't see the sneak. BGs and sneaks aren't meant to fight each other. Sneaks can avoid bgs, so they can avoid them. Bgs can smash sneaks, but they can't find them. That's how the balance used to be, silent death breaks it the way it works.

[Nice_Boat]

Because you can kill bgs that can't see the sneak. BGs and sneaks aren't meant to fight each other. Sneaks can avoid bgs, so they can avoid them. Bgs can smash sneaks, but they can't find them. That's how the balance used to be, silent death breaks it the way it works.

So it all boils down to "waaah, I have an Avenger and a CA, I want to be untouchable without any effort"? If a sneaker kills you in a combat zone, it's just your fault, same with a sniper, a laser build and another BG. The thing is a sneaker has to meet very specific conditions (you're standing with your back exposed, you aren't moving around too much, there's no cover from your teammates) to stand a chance and even then there's no guarantee he will score a kill if your BG is a tank. When compared with what other combat builds have to do to score a kill (just have the bastard in range with a clear LOS), that's not very impressive.

[avv]

So it all boils down to "waaah, I have an Avenger and a CA, I want to be untouchable without any effort"?

It boils down to "waah I have 6-7 perception so sneak can move around me easily and kill me despite my resistances and firepower I chose instead of perception because imma BG".
You tend to talk about strategies and adapting rather than mechanics and balance. Well here's the best strategy: don't ever enter anywhere. Just stay on worldmap. All problems solved.

[Floodnik]

Do any nerfs you want except leave SD for melee weapons as it is

Plasma nader with 2xHeaveHo can throw a nade for 200dmg from ~20 hexes range, which is quite powerful.
But of course it can be easly countered by snipers with 12 PE and sneaker scouts running around, a good team should have both of them.

Compare melee sneaks though... They have low PE, they can't see other sneakers. Giving them perception would sacrifice too much.
They have to approach a target within 1 hex range.
And the annoying knockback effect... And shitty damage(even for Super Cattle Prod).

Not saying they are totally useless, if I manage to catch someone out of position, at some distance from his teammates, with no militia(FUCK MILITIA) swarm he's often dead.
But they definetly need a buff IMO.

[mojuk]

It boils down to "waah I have 6-7 perception so sneak can move around me easily and kill me despite my resistances and firepower I chose instead of perception because imma BG".
You tend to talk about strategies and adapting rather than mechanics and balance. Well here's the best strategy: don't ever enter anywhere. Just stay on worldmap. All problems solved.

That is mostly what problem is about. Some may say take snipers, but than again, max pe sniper  vs max sneak, in usual conditions sneak visible form 18 hexes, with 2 perks increasing throw range thats less than sneaks attack range, and thats even when we are talking about sneak being in front of sniper when sniper gots best chance to see him.
In case of bg it's even worse.
It's not even a case of 'I got avengah and i'm supa killa', it's a case of I got gear at all and you are just naked troll with easy to get plasma nades...
Sneaks should be for sneaking, scouting and such, not running around and insta killing. LSW sneaks from previous session were well balanced and very nice to play or to fight against.

[Nice_Boat]

So just make SD work at 10 hex range and closer? Why nerf it into oblivion? Having sneakers who can actually do serious damage enhances this game in so many ways that nerfing it just so that lone powerbuilds can walk around like a baws once again would be a real shame.

[T-888]

The thing is a sneaker has to meet very specific conditions

This just caught my eyes ...



very specific conditions , even if you run in his face he and he runs by you he still can initiate " silent death " , if you ask me that's ridiculous.

[Nice_Boat]

There, problem solved.

[T-888]

No it doesn't you just have to be in line of him from one of the sides , i tested all that in CBT