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[farnak]

Minigun

19.5 Average * 2 for modifier = 39
-9 DT
= 30
LA Mk II, 30 DR + 15 from Toughness + 40% from 5mm JHP = 4.5 per bullet

9 bullets hit => 40.5

5mm JHP has 35% DR mod

[Solar]

It used to, wait for the update.


Incidentally, vs CA and 2 toughness:

Minigun JHP   13.05
Minigun AP   86.8
m60   79.772
Avenger JHP   14.85
Avenger AP   98.8

EDIT: With 3 BRD

[farnak]

uh, are you sure that 5mm JHP need nerf to 40% DR? 

[Solar]

It makes the JHP and AP switch in the right place on the armours.

[Dark_Side]

avengers is good only with +7 or +5 dmg fer bullet. only problem is too big difference between the inflicted damage from hex. it is 190-270 and gatling 170-240 against ba.
snipers are boosted and stop crying about low hp, learn to use them.
ew - laser rifles are op and plasma are to weak.
bg- av is good with 3xbrd, mini is toy same lsw, m60 is good with out 3 x brd and it is cheap and easy weapon to get but you cant run on 1hex with it so av is still best bg weapon.
Can you add ap rockets to hinkley so we could test it because expl arent effective.
same can you add bozar to game, i have one but 53hex range build is low hp with low resist. but still it is best sniper in game.
for me it is good as it is but laser rifles are little op and plasmas are to weak.

[Dark_Side]

uh, are you sure that 5mm JHP need nerf to 40% DR? 

jhp is useless.
best way to kill lightly armored chars is cut them with gatling.

[farnak]

It makes the JHP and AP switch in the right place on the armours.

even now 5mm JHP is absolutely useless in pvp

[Dark_Side]

if u want to kill ca/ma mk2 guy use avenger with ap ammo or gatling.
i dont see problems with weapons but we need better armors...ca mk2.ba.ea.ncr
just give us bp for them and we will be happy. i know there is no recepture to craft them but i dont think it is a big problem

ca mk2 - ca + 2hp alloy 1good mp 1hq/norm fiber
ba - ca + 3hq alloy 2good mp 1hq/norm fiber
ea - ca + 2hq alloy 2good mp 1hq/norm fiber 2electr parts
ncr - 2hq alloy 2good mp 1hp/norm fiber

pa - 3 mashinery parts (from tanker quest)15 hq alloy 10good mp 5hq fiber item 20ele parts 1activate key/card (special enco like gauss)

[Vandal]

How much damage would make guy with avenger and 3x brd to the guy with only combat armor in game?(without toughness)

[farnak]

How much damage would make guy with avenger and 3x brd to the guy with only combat armor in game?(without toughness)

[Crazy]

Laser Rifle   58.38
Plasma   62.75

Don't you think that's terribly wrong that the plasma sacrifice 15 range and is much more expansive to get 4.37 more average damage? No surprise why they almost disappeared.

So Finesse is about an 11-14% increase in damage ... and better crit effects on top of course.

That seem weird. For example if your target wear a BA it's automatically no damage without bypass (70+30). How can the average damage be 10% higher in that case? Except if there is far too much bypass ofc 

[Simon]

I am interested to see each individual piece of damage that was done for the laser rifle, sniper rifle and minigun if you have them saved in a file that you can share with us please. e.g. You done 100 bursts or 100 shots and recorded each shots damage separately, I would like to look at each value for all the shots that were done with each weapon.

[Solar]

That seem weird. For example if your target wear a BA it's automatically no damage without bypass (70+30). How can the average damage be 10% higher in that case? Except if there is far too much bypass ofc 

For some reason I was sure I changed it on the perk reworking to ignoring the 30DR after any critical, not just bypasses. This must be one of the things I didn't get to do because the little boy arrived and interrupted me.

Since I did forget this, it is a tiny effect at the moment, indeed. Needs changing.

Don't you think that's terribly wrong that the plasma sacrifice 15 range and is much more expansive to get 4.37 more average damage? No surprise why they almost disappeared.

This is specifically for CA, vs the lower armours Plasma is a lot better than Laser.

[Solar]

even now 5mm JHP is absolutely useless in pvp

I wouldn't say it was useless, certainly AP is generally better. Though PvP isn't everything.

Anyway, in building the next bit of the spreadsheet, to test bursts and their criticals, I learnt that I had applied the critical damage modifier in error (its applied before DT, not after). So slight amendments to the single shot damages:

Laser Rifle   61.75
Sniper Rifle   57.09
Plasma   67.71

(Fixed) Finesse

Laser Rifle   69.5
Sniper Rifle   64.5
Plasma   72.75


Then I wanted to compare Miniguns using JHP and AP with a critical burst build. 25% crit chance, better crits, spray and pray, not CA and 2 toughness. Calculated with JHP @ 40% DR.

Remember that with 3 BRD the figures were:
Minigun JHP   13.05
Minigun AP   86.8

The crit builds (no BRD) were:
Minigun JHP   68.1
Minigun AP   67.88

Then if you really didn't like somebody and took the 4 crit perks and 3 BRD:
Minigun JHP   109.5
Minigun AP   122.06

[Crazy]

For some reason I was sure I changed it on the perk reworking to ignoring the 30DR after any critical, not just bypasses.

Wow, that seem suddenly totally OP!

This is specifically for CA, vs the lower armours Plasma is a lot better than Laser.

Pretty much only on metal because of it's very high laser resistance. And well, most people I shoot are in CA (when it's not tesla helmet!). Basically, plasma should be near avenger/gatling level for close range fighting against CA, and right now it is worthless because your average plasma char will have less HP and much less damage output for a lower range (plus the unability to point blank burst).