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[yoz]

Can we quit bitching about people giving feedback?

[Paladin]

Can we quit bitching?

Everyone here has been sniped/bursted/flat out damaged in a 2 or 3 shot. It's part of the game... LUCK. Everyone is striving for 'TEH PERFECT PVP BELD' yet needs to remember what the developers sought to create with this: a Fallout world we could play with each other and do just about anything within the constraints of the game.

Go figure out your perfect 2 shot builds and bitch about minor changes in your respective faction forums. Let the devs continue producing the great product they've provided for us.

EDIT: We're lucky Solar is providing us with this great information at all... quit complainin!

Maybe you missed something but average dmg has nothing with LUCK but with ballance its main point of average.
If sniper has only chance in luck and not in dmg then there must be something wrong.

[Vandal]

For Solar

I tested LSW, Minigun (jhp and ap ammo), avenger minigun (both ammo), m60. Bursting from 20 hexes and then from 5 hexes. The best damage does m60. I can make a video if you want to see

[farnak]

Bursting from 20 hexes and then from 5 hexes

If you have enought skill there is no difference between them. There is 4% accuracy penalty after each round in burst.

[Swarm]

Can we quit bitching?

Everyone here has been sniped/bursted/flat out damaged in a 2 or 3 shot. It's part of the game... LUCK. Everyone is striving for 'TEH PERFECT PVP BELD' yet needs to remember what the developers sought to create with this: a Fallout world we could play with each other and do just about anything within the constraints of the game.

Go figure out your perfect 2 shot builds and bitch about minor changes in your respective faction forums. Let the devs continue producing the great product they've provided for us.

EDIT: We're lucky Solar is providing us with this great information at all... quit complainin!

I do not see anybody bitching about anything. I do not really see the point of this post other than to troll? Part of that fallout world is PvP and many would like it to be balanced. This session release was very... rushed and buggy and unbalanced. This session is OK for PvP but there is a lot that needs to be reworked. And its not like this is a great big huge ground breaking information that a player couldn't figure out themselves. BIG INFORMATION WHOA A DEVELOPER DID SOME MATH THAT AN 8 YEAR OLD CAN DO! I would have called this great information if the algebraic formula in regards to causing critical was posted or the critical table on players was posted.

I agree with paladin we both play snipers. The sniper is a bit weak this session, I mean on average 50 damage you shoot twice on a big gunner that is 100 damage, by time action points regenerate the chance that next shot is another 50 damage the big gunner is in range kills sniper in 2 shots, I mean if we average this no bypasses no power shots that 5-6 shots a sniper has to do to kill a big gunner. A sniper simply cannot pull off 6 shots by the time a big gunner runs up 14 hexes, but at least a big gunner is blind and cannot see where the shots are coming from.

The sniper doesn't have the same feel as it did last wipe it just doesn't seem like it causes enough knock outs or knockdown like it did last wipe and the criticals seem off.

Also no test on plasma, ;\ plasma is a 30 ranged laser rifle now it does same damage as laser rifle as far as criticals go. Should have tested plasma I would have liked to see damage in comparison.

But you know the big gunner has it all high hp hard to kill most damage average, bonehead with anti-critical perks kind of overkill. I think bonehead offset the sniper balance honestly. And these averages solar we do not know if these are limb shots normal shot or an average of shooting each body part or what or if bonehead was taken into consideration for laser or sniper.

But it seems the dilemma all are having is big gunners are complaining about sniper builds and snipers complain about big gunners.

I guess the issue and where the bitching is that people want versatility in builds the power house gattling laser or big gun tank builds gets old. It seems this wipe the power house builds are ew snipers, gattling bg tanks the sniper is a bit weak this session, and I guess the sniper is more of a support build but the knock outs and crippling doesn't happen as much. I would trade off for snipers owning everybody in 2-3 shots for ability to do more crippling the sniper rifle does the least amount of crippling shots when compared to other small guns.

And this is referring to the current state of playing sniper, this session has changed a lot snipers were really over powered with RBtE when it did boosted crit power mod.

But you know this information is limited and not every detailed does not take into consideration what the build was other than the mini-gun was calcuated with brd perks? Is this on average out of 10 shots 100 shots 5 shots? Combat armor and no toughness is only thing we know about these averages.


Snipers: More Critical, Even More Critical, RBtE, Better Criticals, BRoF

I mean sure these are average perks all snipers have for a head/eye shooter build but what is the luck and perception of the character and chance to hit max range? I would hope that this is calculated with 10 luck. Also finesse or no finesse? I'm assuming no finesse if average came out to be 50.

[Solar]

This session is OK for PvP but there is a lot that needs to be reworked. And its not like this is a great big huge ground breaking information that a player couldn't figure out themselves. BIG INFORMATION WHOA A DEVELOPER DID SOME MATH THAT AN 8 YEAR OLD CAN DO! I would have called this great information if the algebraic formula in regards to causing critical was posted or the critical table on players was posted.

These averages are worked out factoring in Bypasses and damage increases from criticals, which players don't know.

Also no test on plasma, ;\ plasma is a 30 ranged laser rifle now it does same damage as laser rifle as far as criticals go. Should have tested plasma I would have liked to see damage in comparison.

62.75 Average for Plasma, discovered an error on the spreadsheet for Sniper Rifle - that average should be 51.72.

Laser Rifle   58.38
Sniper Rifle   51.72
Plasma   62.75

But you know this information is limited and not every detailed does not take into consideration what the build was other than the mini-gun was calcuated with brd perks? Is this on average out of 10 shots 100 shots 5 shots? Combat armor and no toughness is only thing we know about these averages.

Minigun: The 3 different BRD, BRoF

These are calculated averages - these are the results you'd get over many shots.

I mean sure these are average perks all snipers have for a head/eye shooter build but what is the luck and perception of the character and chance to hit max range? I would hope that this is calculated with 10 luck. Also finesse or no finesse? I'm assuming no finesse if average came out to be 50.

10 luck, no finesse. Presuming all shots hit, so Pe doesn't matter.

My question is... is this with target shots on sniper or just single shot to a blue suit?

Guy in CA, as the title suggests ... but aimed to the head.


With Finesse it gives:

Laser Rifle   65.28
Sniper Rifle   57.79
Plasma   69.74

So Finesse is about an 11-14% increase in damage ... and better crit effects on top of course.

For Solar

I tested LSW, Minigun (jhp and ap ammo), avenger minigun (both ammo), m60. Bursting from 20 hexes and then from 5 hexes. The best damage does m60. I can make a video if you want to see

Hard to say much without your build and what you're firing at. I'd be surprised if the Avenger wasn't coming out the winner vs everything. 20 hexes or 5 makes no difference if you have enough skill to hit, as said. The only difference is 1 hex and more than 1 hex.

[Vandal]

Hard to say much without your build and what you're firing at. I'd be surprised if the Avenger wasn't coming out the winner vs everything. 20 hexes or 5 makes no difference if you have enough skill to hit, as said. The only difference is 1 hex and more than 1 hex.

My build 220% skill and 1 x bonus ranged damage. Was firing at my friend who has the same build as I so he had 2x toughness and leather armor mk2. Minigun and LSW sucked and avenger had something better damage but m60 was the best.

[Solar]

Those conditions give:

Minigun JHP   27
Minigun AP   59.9
m60   70.707
Avenger JHP   32.4
Avenger AP   71.9

With only 1 BRD it favours the m60 too, add more levels and Miniguns gain more

[ToxiCAVE]

For Solar

I tested LSW, Minigun (jhp and ap ammo), avenger minigun (both ammo), m60. Bursting from 20 hexes and then from 5 hexes. The best damage does m60. I can make a video if you want to see

avenger with 3xbrd

[Solar]

With all the BRD its (Still against LA II with 2 Toughness):


Minigun JHP   40.5
Minigun AP   89.9
m60   85.14
Avenger JHP   45.9
Avenger AP   101.9

[farnak]

With all the BRD its (Still against LA II with 2 Toughness):

Minigun JHP   40.5
m60   77.7
Avenger JHP   45.9

Do not understand why these are so low.
It should be about:
Avenger JHP: 62-74
Minigun: 54-66
M60: 92-123

with LAII + 2 toughness we have DR=45+ammoDR and DT=9

damage=((WeaponDamage+ all BRD)*AmmoDamageMod-DT)*(1-DR/100)*Rounds - is it right formula for non AP damage?

AP ammo is ok:
Avenger AP: 93-111
Minigun AP: 81-99

[Solar]

I'd used .223 stats for m60, corrected to be 7.62 now

The m60,

26-34 = Average of 30, +7 for BRD then *1.2 damage
-9 from DT
= 35.4 Average damage

LA mk II, 30% DR + 15% from Toughness - 10% from 7.62 = 23.01 damage per bullet.

3.7 bullets hit the target from an m60 => 85.14


Minigun

19.5 Average * 2 for modifier = 39
-9 DT
= 30
LA Mk II, 30 DR + 15 from Toughness + 40% from 5mm JHP = 4.5 per bullet

9 bullets hit => 40.5

[Lidae]

Just to clarify, are you saying these are empirical measures, or are the numbers calculated using the exact formula to determine damage? If it's the latter then this is really useful information in my opinion. If it's the former then I would be interested in knowing more about the test setup and number of trials etc. In any case, it's nice of you to share - thanks!

As far as the whole "omg snipers are so nerfed" argument goes, you gotta remember that dealing damage is only a part of the job of a sniper (whereas it's much more important to a bg), at least when it comes to team play. Doing knockdowns, knockouts, weapon drops and cripples is just as important, and in terms of balancing, it's also hard to quantify these things into a comparative figure. You can't just look at the dps and say which is better. Of course range is also an important factor, and what map you are playing on and what positions and strategy you use is another thing to consider. A sniper is also generally cheaper to maintain.

Having said that, I'm yet to try playing a sniper this season, so I don't have an opinion on whether it's balanced or not. But just because a big gunner has twice the dps of a sniper doesn't necessarily imply that big gunners are better. Just saying.

[farnak]

The m60,

26-34 = Average of 30, +7 for BRD then *1.2 damage
-9 from DT
= 35.4 Average damage

LA mk II, 30% DR + 15% from Toughness - 10% from 7.62 = 23.01 damage per bullet.

3.7 bullets hit the target from an m60 => 85.14

Do not have m60 at the moment, but as I remember, after wipe it has 30-40 damage
Btw 3,7 bullets can hit target and there is no rounding?

[Solar]

Ah yes, I gave it a boost because of no run just before the wipe. Good point:

1 BRD: 82.251
3 BRD: 96.681