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[Solar]

I was curious to work out the average damage from these 3 weapons, given all the discussion about the relative power. I chose a Minigun and not an Avenger because the Minigun is craftable.


So, presuming these characters have all the perks they need:

Snipers: More Critical, Even More Critical, RBtE, Better Criticals, BRoF
Minigun: The 3 different BRD, BRoF

Targeting someone with 1 Luck (To make bypasses the worst they could be), No defence perks (Yes I know people use these, but this is as general a comparison as possible). I've assumed the BGer's critical chance is small enough to ignore.

Laser Average Damage 58.38 (6 AP)
Sniper Average Damage 42.8 (7 AP)
Minigun Average Damage 102.6 (6 AP) 

Using the Minigun and targeting a 2*Toughness guy gives average damage of 72, I'm too lazy to change the other two to take toughness into account for now and way too lazy to factor in Bonehead or Man of Steel

[avv]

But what does this all mean?

There are dozens of things to take into consideration with damages. For example many sg snipers use finesse, which ofcourse reduces damage.

[Perteks]

Minigun with what type of ammo ? But withuout thougness its not reality its kind of joke

And BG critical chance uh Solar how wrong u can be sometimes Just play that game really

But about sniper lazer dmg

Lazer have much too high damage compare to how ease its to get

[farnak]

I don't worry about sniper demage, but crippler is slighty useless now.
Bonehead, Man of steel, most characters have 10 Endurance (+4 EN, -4 AGI, +2 Action boy, -2 Lifegeaver = PROFIT), Armor Mods - all these make crippler needless.

[Solar]

This all means that big guns still easily out damage the single shot weapons. I wanted to know for myself, with people complaining about the damage they do, how they compared. I thought I'd share the results for interest.

No toughness? I included the toughness for the minigun, if you missed it.

I'm pretty sure all 3 of these weapons are too easy to get at the moment :p

[farnak]

I'm pretty sure all 3 of these weapons are too easy to get at the moment :p

As for me everithing, wich has in-game blueprints and ingridients, is extremely easy to get. I can get about 400 ore for 30 minutes, my friend few days ago digged about 100 HQ ores for 1 hour. You "fixed" merchants, but at the moment we don't need them - everything is laying on the ground.
The only thing we needed to prevent devaluation is withdrawal of money from circulation by some valuable goods (2mm EC ammo, buyable only through dialogue or smthing like that)

[Solar]

Actually, traders aren't fixed yet

Crafting is way too fast because the timeout is infinite instead of cumulative for 1 or 2 hours.

But let's not get too focussed on availability, we all know this isn't right at the moment.

[Perteks]

Hmm I must agree with u Solar all kind of weapon are freaking ease to get even that top grade, only armors are problem

[Reiniat]

Its true, even i gave a new chance to crafting, the only true problem are blueprints because they are boring to get, not hard.

[Hovinko]

OK. I have my own statistics of snipers and the results are pretty interesting.

Fact is, they are nerfed since last era. Its because Bonehead, Helmets, Men of steel and different critical hit tables + different perks.

Max dmg output of sniper rifle to eyes is something around 125. To head its 144+
So basically you can score bigger dmg to head, than to eyes.

If we want to make comparsion of snipers to big gunners, so snipers are very nerfed since last era. Biguners can be immune against blindshots, knockouts and in average they have 250-280 hps.
Snipers are very luck and critical dependant. They can do huge dmg (120+) three and more times in a row. But then they can do like 70 dmg with 4 continuous shots (sum dmg of 4 shots). And in average, they have 130-180 hps MAX. More Hps mean only 1 Shot. And less Hps mean, they will die for 1 max 2 bursts everytime.

Avenger and minigun is doing constant 70-120 dmg, per every burst.

Energy sniper is a different kind of story. Their eyeshots bypases are in average for 130-160 hps. And against head it could be 205+ dmg. Against helmet and bonehead. But in average dmg per 50 shots. Sniper rifle and Laser rifle is pretty much the same. (Sniper rifle can do bigger dmg per non bypass. Cause of lesser laser resistance (Metal helmets + Combat helmets).

[Paladin]

Laser Average Damage 58.38 (6 AP)
Sniper Average Damage 51.77 (7 AP)
Minigun Average Damage 102.6 (6 AP) 

hmm okey....

Question is why sniper must shoot 3+ times (3 if he is very lucky) to kill BG and BG needs only 1+ bursts to kill sniper ?
That makes sniper almost useless only for criplers 50 hex advantage but almost no dmg ...
But I never saw miniguns in pvp only avengers.

in final sum to kill 280 hp enemy with average shoots you need:
6 shoots from sniper ..... 42 action points
3 bursts from minigun .... 18 action points

so thats why is sniper so .....

[Swarm]

My question is... is this with target shots on sniper or just single shot to a blue suit?

Was bonus range damage taken into consideration for miniguns? How many hexes away was the mini gun shot? Big guns do less damage further away the target is when it comes to bursting... I mean when you say you use BRD was it just 1xbrd 2xbrd 3xbrd?

I get there is no toughness involved in this test but most luck based builds bypass toughness, for example sniper or ew.

Also toughness does not give any DR towards laser or plasma just normal or big gun / small gun ammo.

And what ammo mini gun use? JHP or AP?

Average damage for laser is ~50 I've seen gattling lasers shoot for 200+ every shot on combat armor.

[Hovinko]

But again. PvP is not about averages. PvP is only about lucky PEAK dmg.
And sniper + laser rifles are only about this PEAK dmg. This is why its so frustrating.
(For example get killed by two laser bypasses (170+205 dmg))
Chance for taking that kind of bypasses in a row is low, its just pure luck. But it happens.

[Landrik]

Can we quit bitching?

Everyone here has been sniped/bursted/flat out damaged in a 2 or 3 shot. It's part of the game... LUCK. Everyone is striving for 'TEH PERFECT PVP BELD' yet needs to remember what the developers sought to create with this: a Fallout world we could play with each other and do just about anything within the constraints of the game.

Go figure out your perfect 2 shot builds and bitch about minor changes in your respective faction forums. Let the devs continue producing the great product they've provided for us.

EDIT: We're lucky Solar is providing us with this great information at all... quit complainin!

[Chewbakka]

What Landrik said