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[JovankaB]

Instead of relog timeout which can be easily avoided you always get 2 minute "sleepy" status after login.

Sleepy characters can't extract materials from facilities (no mining ore, etc, you get "you are too sleepy to work now").
They also get penalty to all skills equal to sleepy_seconds_left * -1%.
So right after relog you have -300% to all skills and the penalty gradually goes down.

You don't get it, if you are logged off with the same character shorter than 30 seconds (anti-crash/restart).
Or maybe simply if you didn't switch characters on the same client. Not sure if it would be enough.

Let's forget about initial suggestion.

I think it would be perfect if returning from respawn, healing, restocking would be more less
the same as relogging on another charater. The question is how can it be done, and
preferably in a way that doesn't hurt PvE too much. It could be SPECIAL penalty in following
way: You get -10 SPECIAL penalty points.

First, PE is penalized down to 1.
If there are still some penalty points, the remain points are used to penalize ST
If there are still some penalty points, the remain points are used to penalize LK
And so on, I'm not sure about the order, but the point is it should be SPECIALs
that matter the most in PvP and PvE the least. I think PE should be first.

Penalty lasts 120 seconds after you login.

If you are turn based PvE 120 seconds of such penalty wouldn't be a big deal.
I mean, seriously, you can use the time to increase range from enemies
or whatever even if you get immediately encounter. RT PvE first 120 seconds
would be a bit worse but you could still one hex enemies. We are talking about
2 minutes (or similar time) after login here while your character is "sleepy".

Mercenerias should get the same penalty.

[avv]

Best keep more windows open then, with proxies ofcourse.

[JovankaB]

Best keep more windows open then, with proxies ofcourse.

Yes.
If someone has to cheat during PvP, let's at least make the cheater have to run 6 proxy clients at the same time.
If it was all that convenient you would see it everywhere.

It's a different thing to have to be logged in for a few minutes to be effective.
Such people would be easier to catch and ban than in previous system.

[avv]

The playerbase isn't your enemy. They want to have fun but if something is too boring or feels tedious, they will work their way around it. Better would be to concentrate on the reasons behind cheating, not the cheating itself or you can ban the world, leaving only some purists who will first laugh at the banned and the wonder where everyone is.

Cheating can be cured with features, not with brute force. If you ban, smartest cheaters will prevail making the others upset.

I'll tell you about the reasons.
For example redding is small town, klamath is big. In redding it's easy to bring proxies and fast relogs help alot in pvp. Klamath is harder because big map forces you to control single char longer and distance means the help from proxy arrives later.
Certain activities demand some waiting, so if I wait I might aswell do something and relog, or just click another window. Players want to play the game and do stuff, all the time. They want to be on control and have that control affect how well they do things. I doubt players relog that much when they are fighting in hinkley.
This may sound like whining and demanding new changes right nao, but I'm simply explaining the reasons why people cheat because you brought the whole issue up.

[JovankaB]

You could still relog and do harmless stuff.

You kill some laser pistol PK in Modoc, second later you see "off" and his alt with gatling in CA comes in.
I guess it's "too boring" to lose for some people. This is my enemy not "playerbase".

Don't put equal sign between all players and abusers, thank you.

With sleepiness he would have to keep both characters logged in and it's much more risky and less convenient.
Penalty could be reduced to combat skills I guess. Although I don't really see why people should be allowed
to farm with alts in every mine, if the resources are finite or alt-heal themselves in respawn points. If you really
have to taxi-alt occasionally you can wait 5 minutes.

This is exactly what you ask for, sleepiness would be in-game feature

[avv]

You kill some laser pistol PK in Modoc, second later you see "off" and his alt with gatling in CA comes in.
I guess it's "too boring" to lose for some people. This is my enemy not "playerbase".

But we players already take proxies and reloggers into consideration. If the map is small, they are more likely to jump on you before you can react.
Either way, it is true that only fast reloggers start fighting right after relog, casual players take time. But is it wrong? When you go fighting, you risk stuff by bringing your geared character in unsafe area. Combat fast relog only sucks if you don't do it yourself, your enemy does and you lose. But if you win, you get big loot. Besides, instead of fast relog it could be anyone else. If you consider characters just characters, then fast relogger is just another assailant who just knows where you are.
Either way, sleepyness could be used in this case but it must not be longer than 30 seconds. But even then there's mercs.

With sleepiness he would have to keep both characters logged in and it's much more risky and less convenient.

So you want players to cheat more so that they can be caught easier?

[Brooce]

I agree with this, allow the players to move around and stuff, but combat or farming is not immediately available. Far too many people camp alts around towns. i have had to run through 3-4 alts at a time while trying to do simple tasks in unguarded towns and defending myself. It shouldn't be a war of attrition about who can relog the fastest or who has more alts in the same area.

You die with one character, you lose the fight. Deal with it.

[JovankaB]

So you want players to cheat more so that they can be caught easier?

No, not more. They will cheat the same.  But they would have to use method that is much
much easier to detect, prove and punish. For example PvP multilogs would have to stay logged
in all the time to be effective because you never know when fight will start. Dual loggers who
just want to make tent etc would have nothing to worry about, because it's not forbidden
anymore to dual log for stuff that doesn't break game for other players.

Besides, instead of fast relog it could be anyone else. If you consider characters just characters, then fast relogger is just another assailant who just knows where you are.

And how much HP/how injured you are, and what weapon you have and you can surprise that
person in 1 second while they are reloading/looting/regenerating AP. This is not a knowledge
of just "other character". Defending powerabusers with "roleplay" arguments? Oh please.

[Brooce]

No, not more. They will cheat the same.  But they would have to use method that is much
much easier to detect, prove and punish. For example PvP multilogs would have to stay logged
in all the time to be effective because you never know when fight will start. Dual loggers who
just want to make tent etc would have nothing to worry about, because it's not forbidden
anymore to dual log for stuff that doesn't break game for other players.

And how much HP/how injured you are, and what weapon you have and you can surprise that
person in 1 second while they are reloading/regenerating AP. This is not a knowledge of just
"other character". Defending powerabusers with "roleplay" arguments? Oh please.

You should be able to use doctor/first aid still however. I often find myself relogging onto an alt that has doctor to heal my crippled limbs. I don't feel that this is too abusive, and since its not going to directly affect combat, will still deal with the problems you are talking about

[Skycast]

Some kind of Dual-log protection must be implemented for sure but it must be easy to monitor and ban to not take much time from Gms and Devs.
And actually dont see any reason why it must affects craft/gathering because no cd on it.

[JovankaB]

And actually dont see any reason why it must affects craft/gathering because no cd on it.

I didn't say anything about crafting. But gathering is different story, resources do have global timeouts/are limited
so if someone farms them all with alts in every location others won't get any. It puts other players at direct
disadvantage. Although it's unsafe locations and alt farmers usually are bluesuits so it's not a big problem
(well unless you don't shoot them, duh, I guess one has no choice and either become alter or a PK).

[набегат]

Nice suggestion!

you can still log in with another char to do some inoffensiv stuff and it avoids (not completely but a lot) alt abusing (mining/healing/trading/pvp alt drop).

i love it

Implement!

[vilaz]

No. Just no.

If it's about being anti pvp cheat feature, then make it few minutes for shooting or just decreasing statistics a little bit. We all know that PvP apes are counted to use every single SPECIAL point. If every single one of them will be decreased by 1-2 points then PVP-alt will be useless for PvP but possible to use in crafting/traveling/exping etc.

This way people not interested in PvP won't be harmed (at least much).

Jovanka I just had to say I hate this idea as a player not interested in TC/PvP. I don't give a fu*k about TC/PvP and feel like it'll harm people interested in having some fun from game beside mentioned.

[набегат]

I dont get it, how it will harm people who are not fast reloging?

[vilaz]

I dont get it, how it will harm people who are not fast reloging?

Because of this

(no mining ore, etc, you get "you are too sleepy to work now").
They also get penalty to all skills equal to sleepy_seconds_left * -1%.
So right after relog you have -300% to all skills and the penalty gradually goes down.

Some people doesn't play sessions of 5-6 and more hours a day. Some people just like to jump in. Do something. Get back to safe tent and continue some other time/day.

With mentioned feature it'll look like:
1. Log in on fighting character A.
2. Wait 5 minutes (because you are defenseless and don't want to loose equipment in silly fight).
3. Go for ore, dig it get it to the base/tent.
4. Log out A. Log in crafting character B.
5. Wait 5 minutes (for example: you don't have base and need to go to city to craft stuff. You won't go with B who have no means of defending himself).
6. Go to city, craft, get back.
7. Log out B. Log in A.
8. Wait 5 minutes. Go exp.

There are many, many little things like this which will make game pain in the ass wait-simulator. I personally don't know any other game which would demand from you to wait just after starting to play. If you do, please bring it up for consideration mechanics used in it.