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[Lordus]

 My idea is simple. Limit sneaking at day hours and allow sneak at night hours (in game of course). It sounds heretical, annoying limitation of very funny builds and gameplay, BUT try to look at it from different angle.


 Limitation on one side supports very same gameplay on other side. Sneak vs. sneak gameplay would be concentrate into specific time ("night" = cca 12 ingame hours), so players would have bigger chance to meet another PvP sneaker. (Similar to old TC windows system. Players fought more during that TC windows).

 No PK chars (traders, mad max,...) would get "sneak safe" time to finish their tasks in unguarded cities. Their chance would be more fair, if they would be able rely on their perception and FOV.

 It can also affect a game atmospehere at night.

[Kelin]

Sneak cooldown? Are you serious, so player is not the one who chooses which time he wants to fight, game will choose for him, great. This is what I dislike about Junktown, great town but you can't go there at night.

[DocAN.]

You can not go inside NCR with weapon in hand, so?

I support Lordus idea.

[Andr3aZ]

I actually like how that would make the night a dangerous time around towns and let the people of wasteland prefer the day.

But I think there are so much sneak lovers that they would not like beeing nerfed that strong.

[Kelin]

This is different, imagine your PvP tank, what is his advantage? Maybe resistance, so this is like saying all builds with tagged bg have zero resistance during the night hours, so they can be killed easily by anyone.

You have to realize, that sneaker is useless without sneaking.

EDIT: Exactly Andr3aZ, if we touched already very overpowered bg power builds, we would have very soon this thread full of Maneros and DocANs, that's for sure 

[DocAN.]

You have to realize, that sneaker is useless without sneaking.

Lordus suggestion isnt about remove sneak from game. Sneak will be still usefull but at nights and i think it fit quite good in to the gameplay.

Edit: I dont have any pvp build, not even any lvl cap champ so ill not defend any builds. Ill support good suggestions which can bring something intresting to the gameplay.

[Lordus]

 

I actually like how that would make the night a dangerous time around towns and let the people of wasteland prefer the day.

But I think there are so much sneak lovers that they would not like beeing nerfed that strong.

 
 Monsters are awakening.

 

Sneak cooldown? Are you serious, so player is not the one who chooses which time he wants to fight, game will choose for him, great. This is what I dislike about Junktown, great town but you can't go there at night.

 You can fight at day, if you want, but with different char or under penalty of no sneak. I just dont understand, why i cant see (10 PE) enemy on distance of 6 hexes at noon. 6 hexes = cca 6 meters?  What are my defense possibilities? => DAY!

 Also, most sneakers leveled up their chars during "hexthrowing plasma nade bug", so my suggestion will not ruin week work of basic players..

[JovankaB]

Sneak at night only seems too harsh to me. It's not a penalty, it's disabling a character.
Night lasts something like 25 minutes after this you would have to relog?
Yes we need more relogging in this game -.-

What if someone doesn't play with alts, Lordus? Is this FOnline: RelogAlt or still FOnline: 2238???
There are still people without 5+ lame combat alts hanging over PvP towns. Hello?

A Sneak % penalty at daytime (or a bonus at night, or both) would be better I think.

[Lordus]

Sneak at night only seems too harsh to me. What if you don't play with alts, Lordus?
There are still people in this game without 5+ lame combat alts hanging over PvP towns.
A -50% Sneak penalty at daytime (or a bonus at night) would be better I think.

 I understand your concerns, but i would like to test it. Main purpose is to concentrate sneak vs. sneak fights and to create dangerous atmosphere at night. If my suggestion fails, changes could be removed.

 I think, that players who have sneak builds also have or very soon will have classic pvp char, because sneak char was not "main battle char" in past sessions.

 And also, i can reverse it: "There are still people in this game with  an unarmed char. They dont play with alts, sneakers are stealing their gameplay..".

[avv]

Buffing night? By all means but preferrably not like this. Night could give sneak buff so that even normal guys would sneak from snipers. Then nighs would be sneak fights and flares could be used to block entrances.

But being hidden is totally possible during daylight. Just merge with the enviroment. I'd hate if my char was usable only half of the time.

[Crazy]

Buffing night? By all means but preferrably not like this. Night could give sneak buff so that even normal guys would sneak from snipers. Then nighs would be sneak fights and flares could be used to block entrances.

Hay, that would be cool. Especially is we were able to run with only a malus to sneak even without silent running, as it should be.

[Lordus]

 So if even non sneakers would be allowed to sneak (effectively) at night, will it mean, that all regular PvP builds will mandatory play a blind man's buff?

 Personaly i quite dislike sneaking. Even i am older player and i played some text adventure games, i prefer to see some enemies during combat.

[Sarakin]

I like this suggestion, it would give day/night cycles a purpose apart from JT. Maybe give sneak chars passive transparency during day, so it wouldnt be completely useless.

@Jovanka - What loner with no alts would invest 250+ in sneak ?
@Kelin - You cant compare a gun skill (BG,SG..) with utility skill - Sneak. Even without sneak, sneak chars arent defenseless and still can pack a punch, though they cant fight 1v1 with most of the chars.

[Solar]

Hay, that would be cool. Especially is we were able to run with only a malus to sneak even without silent running, as it should be.

Yes, I want this fixed

Buffing night? By all means but preferrably not like this. Night could give sneak buff so that even normal guys would sneak from snipers. Then nighs would be sneak fights and flares could be used to block entrances.

But being hidden is totally possible during daylight. Just merge with the enviroment. I'd hate if my char was usable only half of the time.

This would already be the case if light levels existed on the engine. Light (from the day, or flares, or lighting) would put a penalty on sneak (its even there on my spreadsheet!). Sadly it is waiting for that day.

I don't think making it totally useless would be good, but making them have to skulk around in shadows in the day would be interesting. Modify behaviour at different times, rather than just make chars useless at certain times.

This is also a change I'm thinking about with how being near walls should work. Instead of a bonus, I think it should mitigate a decrease. Stealth Boy would then also do this.

Sneak should be all about positioning, the current system needs a bit of tweaking.

[Swinglinered]

Compromise:

Sneak score is at "normal" at 6PM and 6AM, and goes down/up toward day/night.

Say 5% per hour better going towards midnight from 6PM (+30% at midnight), 10% better per hour midnight to 3 AM (+30% more), then from 3AM to 6 AM lose 20% per hour which returns it to normal.

Sneak then gets worse 10% per hour from 6 AM to Noon then stays that way from Noon to 3 PM, then gets 20% better per hour from 3PM to 6 PM which returns it to normal.

No, I will not count having lesser shadows at noon as a factor, nor would I calculate variations of Seasons.

Also: half of the night time bonus applies only when near a wall/scenery object as with Ghost. Half (or a third) of the daytime penalty also (because you can hide behind stuff in day as well, and the objects are general representations of clutter in addition to "actual" obstacle.)