Other > Closed suggestions

Crafting, economy and anti-alting

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FischiPiSti:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on February 21, 2010, 01:24:08 pm ---I don't really understand what's this anti-alt campaign all about.

--- End quote ---
I do. Many people have main characters that can fight, and crafter alts that can craft equipment for his main. If the main needs eqipment, he logs on his alt, crafts the necessary gear, then sends that character back to sleep because what else can he do without combat skills? The devs wanted crafting to be a secondary thing, but high level items needing "useless" skills like repair and science killed the idea, and introduced teh alt. They wanted characters like you, that can fight, and still craft, but players want only the best items, and for that, they need alts. Alts also consume resources (in 1 way or another) even when they arent logged in as i can well imagine.

I had a crazy idea about utilizing characters that have a high science/repair skill, but no combat skills, and introduce new gameplay elements. Ofc as this is a small project it likely wont happen but what the heck..
Why not let crafter toons with a high reapir/science skill choose a new perk. A new perk that lets them build robots to defend them, or turrets to defend a base! Behold my brethren, teh Engineer class is born!(Anarchy Online reference) They arent good at handling a gun(repair and science consuming most skill points), but hey, i would not recommend touching the guy if he has a f****g sentry bot on his side with mounted miniguns and hellfire rockets :D
And while im at it, a character with a high charisma is a good troop transport, but other then that, they are like crafter alts, useless. He can hire mercs, but why does it cost money?? How about another perk for peeps with a high speech skill and charisma, to be able to gather followers, like mercs to defend him? Behold, teh Beurocrat class!(another Anarchy Online reference which is a scifi mmorpg btw)
Hmm how about utilizing the outdoorsmen skill, so the group has a Scout? High outdoorsmen, but little to no combat skills? No problem! Just choose the animal friend perk, that lets you tame wild beasts not just brahmin, duh... Again, the higher the outdoorsmen(and PE), the more and/or deadlyer beasts can be tamed, at the expense of not beeing able to hold a minigun properly..
What about the melee class? How about a high level perk that turns them into a Tank? With a high enough skill in melee, he can choose a perk that lets him wear Power Armor! Yeah thats right, PA, and want to know how this wont imbalance the game? Well simple! He cant choose perks that boost his DPS. High endurance, but low damage output.
Lets not forget about the Grenadier ofc. High throwing/traps skill enables a perk that boost the radius of grenades, or maybe not the blast radius, only add an extra effect to the explosion that knocks back/down mobs in a higher vicinity.
Doctor needs a revamp...
Snipers and Support gunners would get there own perks that can be chosen at 200+ skill.
If you read carefully, most of the fictional characters ive brought up in my post are allready in the game, but only in the form of crafter alts. IMO giving them tools to be effective in a group situation, and letting them actually defend themselves would help the economy in more then 1 way...

DrapiChrust:
Well, I always play only one char at a time, abandoning old ones when I make a new one, but as Nice_Boat I also see nothing bad in alts the way they are now.

The problem with crafting (for me) is that gathering most materials offers no challange at all, is boring (especially ore and minerals), yet takes a damn lot of time. Mingling with the timeouts can only balance/unbalance the crafter's advancement and amount of items in-game. IT WON"T help make crafting more interesting (so that people would like the idea of actually PLAYING a crafter (not using a crafting char, which is the most common, or making a crafter/sth.else hybrid).

People rarely use low-level items, because they mostly don't need them. that's all. As long as making a magnum will be only a way to get xp and cash for making a sniper nothing will change. Unless crafter would have a need of a shotgun (or a friend using shotgun) to get at least some of the needed materials, nothing will change. As long as resources (the most important ones - ore and minerals) will lie on the ground waiting to be taken NOTHING WILL CHANGE.

Getting materials should take some effort (waiting for timeout to run down, even if it is a needed feature right now, is not an effort). I mean the kind of an effort like getting golden gecko hides requires.

Yes, I know. some of you will say: but killing mobs is too easy, it wouldn't make a difference, my 'X'lvl crafter can kill averything but centaurs on his own (...). Yes. You're right. but your 'X' lvl crafter wasn't always on level X! Some time ago he was a way weaker, and then he would need to fight/get someone to fight with those cratures. Simple.

Yes, the changes that I proposed about 1000 times already will not change much (or at all) the situation of 21lvl chars. But it could make a saying 'this game starts at level 21' a bit less true.

avv:

--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on February 21, 2010, 05:14:20 pm ---Not really, no. All characters can do all the basic things with some effort (drugs), being able to do one or two things exceptionally well is what makes them specialists - and that's all fine and the way it should be. What would you want, a BG gunsmith who incidentally can make his own stimpacks and an occasional Plasma Rifle? THAT would be really f**ked up.
--- End quote ---

Who needs drugs to talk to another person?

It's alright that you can do few things exceptionally well, but does it have to mean that you must suck at everything else? That's one reason why many players use alts. Besides the profesions already make it impossible for one player to master everything, so we'd never see crafters who can make everything.


--- Quote from: Nice_Boat on February 21, 2010, 05:14:20 pm ---Wouldn't people be less important than items in a postnuclear world? They sure are in low-tech Fading Suns, which doesn't stop it from being an excellent RPG system. Why would that be a problem at all anyway? And you're not even right with that, cause the game isn't about items (can be replaced/restocked in a day or two), it's about knowledge and having a lot of friends and aquintances. Anyway, the reason people aren't roleplaying is because they don't really want to,, not because the mechanics are set this way or that way. To have a roleplaying experience you need a carefuly selected bunch of guys and girls caring about having a roleplaying experience - 2238 is an open server, so there's never gonna be serious rp here, sorry. As far as less serious rp is concerned (ie. people not doing stuff out of character), 2238 looks quite good - gang leaders engage in diplomacy on their own initiative, there's player-player trade, players care about their equipment more than about themselves which fits the setting, technology is limited to the best organized groups etc. Not really much to complain about - it's as good as it gets in a game that basically lets everyone in.

--- End quote ---

People less important than items? What good is a fruit supposed to do if you're dead.

People always get together in multiplayer games. However it strongly seems that the game's goal is about items. People kill each other for loot, people are willing to die for loot, it's much bigger damage to take someone's items than to take his life. But then again, it's all the same what the game is about in this discussion, it's just so that item based system encourages alts. If it was character based, it would be more encouraging to keep developing one character instead of making new ones.

And what comes to roleplay, it happens on its own if game mechanics are on par with the game's background story. When the mechanics encourge players to play along with the story, players might be role playing without even knowing it just like you explained it with players trading etc.

Surf:
Well , I have to agree with Nice_Boat that armory and items etc. are more important than a human life in such a wasteland.
Leader XY will easily send some of his troops into death just because he needs technology XY etc.

But yeah, character based sounds allright - but it would be a too big overthrow at the moment I think.

Amrok:
Avv doesnt speak about  "human life price" in Wasteland,
but how the player consider their own charcater life.

And I m agree with him.
Thats really lame in a role-play based game like FO.
Once players have enough equipement in stock, they dont care about staying alive.
They lose nothing in death actualy.

The alts used kill the game mechanics thats a fact.
The wealth of any multiplayer game is the characters diversity.
Where is the interest to play if you are self-sufficient as player ?
That limit the player interaction to kill records.... a "Who piss the farthest" game... so great

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