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HtH Fighters screwed as never before

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Wallace:

--- Quote from: Warpig on January 09, 2012, 06:44:39 PM ---HtH is good now. Much better than before, thanks to chance of making really tough guy almost immortal against normal dmg, but two things are really screwed. Heavy handed guy can kill my crit HtH build without any chance for me. He can keep me down with unaimed hits for 3ap and I got no chance to escape or defend. Also absence of better crit for HtH makes unarmed critical build almost useless. I got problem with Haymaker to do some crits against headprotected enemy and if i make some, it almost never do some knock down/out/blindness etc.

The knock down feature is really good idea, but i dont know why is only for Heavy Handed trait. Agains all ranged enemies it is the thing that HtH build missed for balance all the time. But HtH with Heavy H. vs  HtH without it is absolutely unbalanced and gives ultimate advantage to the first one.

One question at the end: Did someone recognized problem with unarmed and bindings? On my client the bindings for aiming are not working with unarmed attacks. Haymaker and other nowielding attacks are not aimed by them. Spiked knuckels are working properly.

--- End quote ---

1 - take "In your face!" to even the odds... heavy hander may keep you down for a while but you do better crits
2 - not true - i fought with some people (who were shooting at me) and they could get up and runaway or sell me a bullet in the eyes occasionally. I'd say chances aren't far from 50/50 (but shooters have much greater chance for killing HtH who is running away and HtH won't gonna catch shooter running to the exit grid =/
3 - What do you mean "absence"? There is a "Better HtH criticals" perk or something... right?
4 - "Hit the gaps" perk might be coming handy
5 - If both Heavy-handers get In your face! then the odds are like 50/50 too

Mithguar:
Well actualy... My lvl 1 char with HH and 10 str is winning as long as:
a) it's 1vs1
b) land a hit (even 1)
With str 10 and over 80 i hit almost every time (standing targets have 0 AC so no chance to avoid). They can run but if they stop to shot then if they not kill me with first shot then they are as good as dead...
Now question:
Is it ment to be that lvl 1 char (when i get to lvl 2 and get my unarmed over 100 god have mercy) to be able to kill anyone as long as it hit him? With this all chars NEED to have 10 END and Stone wall perk or they can die killed by lvl 1 char. And it's not becouse this lvl 1 char is good player. It just have HH trait...
Once again i will compare HH with KD to Slayer perk.
Slayer - luc test for crit (crit not equal KD), Perk (take perk slot), not available
HH - STR test for KD, Trait available from start, adds melee dmg lowers crit rate (so basicly this bonus melee dmg make up for lower dmg then crit)
So if you don't plan to add Slayer or Sniper perk then why add this?

Solar:
If it turns out to be too good then its a simple fix to add in a -X to the Str test. If it is too good or not hasn't been decided yet.

Wallace:
It isnt too good. Stonewall and In Your Face! are remedies to it

In case of stonewall Vs HH i'd say to implement roll for each - who rolls better wins (stone keeps his stance / HH knocks stonewall)

pistacja:
There's fast recovery, it should make a knockdown -1 not -3AP and it's only lv3. You'd need a rock and bonus hth attacks to keep someone knockdowned, with a 3ap attack you'd run out of ap while the victim still can have up to 7ap. With a rock you'd have to hit 50x to kill an armored player with ~200hp.

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