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[greece crisis]

ok Surf, but all i can see is idea of deleting and weakining...is that only way for balance? i dont think so...balance is : something up, something down and not only down down down...

[Michaelh139]

Don't think its too bad to have to keep the leader alive.

It is somewhat.  I mean, your leader dies, but your still in the middle of the firefight?  What you gonna do?  Just sit there and die without fighting back?  Nonsense.

Finding sneakers, don't see why mercs should be able to do that so easily.

They dont find them so easily.  And why shouldn't mercs be able to find sneakers??  There is no sense in that at all, it's not like you can put on command "Search for sneakers, MOVE" and they all spread out slowly tracking down a sneaker and then gang-banging him.  Avoiding mercenaries is easy as avoid any BG char (6 PE) just stay 3 hex away and your good which is extremely easy.

[Rascal_]

It is somewhat.  I mean, your leader dies, but your still in the middle of the firefight?  What you gonna do?  Just sit there and die without fighting back?  Nonsense.

if u attack them even if they are without their merc leader around they gonna respond with fire so whats "nonsene" here ?
its not like u have merclider+5 mercs, u kill their merclider and they stop reacting , or other scenario they are left in reno for example alone (merc leader coming back from resp) and You are entering location with them inside - if You attack them they gona respond...

[greece crisis]

If you are attacked then they defend you anyway. I don't see any reason why auto attack is needed really.

well Solar they are standing in one big group and 1-2rocket or 1-2burts from bg and they are all dead. if they will just stand and chase only 1 guy who shooted you they will run on death trap. for example we have 2 mercs leaders with 2x5 bg mercs. 2 snipers shooted each mercs leaders so mercs are chasing sniper who attacked their leader. sniper is running  behind line of their bgs and mercs are chasing him. they ran behing or in range of bruters but they dont attack them because only sniper attack them. now they are in death trap and merc leader has now 2 options. run with them, or run on map to save mercs. if mercs wont have auto attack they will die for sure in traps because they will chase only 1 guy who shooted them. same when you want to help your gang, you will have to run in first line to take a bullet or have 10+pe to order your mercs attack. it is silly and ultra hard

[JovankaB]

ultra hard

And that's how it should be. PvP merc leading should be left for people who aren't afraid ultra hard.
People who just want easy kills with autocannons can play Tower Defense.

Also it's not ultra hard to stop actions. It definitely should be possible to lure mercenaries into a trap if the merc leader is an idiot.

I would love more sophisticated commands though (but not automatic "seek and destroy" behavior). But I think there should be ability to give commands to followers outside player FOV (but withing PE range), because followers often run around some FOV obstacles and then suddenly they are deaf and you can't give them any commands, then you have to chase them around corners and repeat the command. Combine it with some movement/AI bugs and it can be quite annoying.

[zerosoul]

Exactly. I hope we will get some more micro intensive followers UI with more complex and sophisticated control of them. Maybe not in near future but well, lets hope for the best.

And for the last time...mercs should never be like walking auto turrets cause its plain stupid/game breaking idea in many cases. Just simple as that.

[greece crisis]

so thats why auto attack is necessary, if you are in combat it the urban area you have to see your mercs to give them command, but i cant really see how i can order 5 mercs at same time when i cant see them?
and remember rt on tc is dynamic and make just good AI fro followers or leave auto attack. we can leave auto attack but only in range of merc leader and mercs PE.

[avv]

Here's how the interface could look like. Could be a bit smaller and more transparent.


You got 4 options:
Regroup: brings the mercs to you. They will come around you and stay in a distance you set them to stay in the dialogue (close, medium, snipe). After this command is given, they will follow you without delay.
Stop: Mercs simply plainly stop. They won't do anything until further instructed.
Retreat: Mercs will escape to worldmap on foot, normal combat timer applies unless it's an encounter.
Hostile: Mercs are in readyness for violent encounter. They will shoot back if shot, attack anyone who attacks their master or his friends and attack whoever their master is attacking.

These commands could be given even when mercs are out of FoV.

In addition note how the player can see the hexes the mercs are standing outlined with green. This helps to keep track where the mercs are.

[Chrupek]

Here's how the interface could look like. Could be a bit smaller and more transparent.


You got 4 options:
Regroup: brings the mercs to you. They will come around you and stay in a distance you set them to stay in the dialogue (close, medium, snipe). After this command is given, they will follow you without delay.
Stop: Mercs simply plainly stop. They won't do anything until further instructed.
Retreat: Mercs will escape to worldmap on foot, normal combat timer applies unless it's an encounter.
Hostile: Mercs are in readyness for violent encounter. They will shoot back if shot, attack anyone who attacks their master or his friends and attack whoever their master is attacking.

These commands could be given even when mercs are out of FoV.

In addition note how the player can see the hexes the mercs are standing outlined with green. This helps to keep track where the mercs are.

Those are really good ideas. And eliminates problem of insta-kill traps. I would add some things:


- some merc leader stat (it could be speech) should affect orders
for example: 150% speech, makes your mercs ignore stop order, or delay it for 2-3 seconds. this factor could be somehow random, but the point is, that control of your mercs shouldnt be 100% sure. 300% speech gives you 95% chance, to control mercs perfectly. Its like chance to hit.

- giving orders should cost APs. your mercs, are your combat skill, so when you force your mercs to shoot, that will cost you attack amount of APs. and that is logical, because yelling need focus/time/energy, so it should be normal action, which consume your 'mana'.

- Some of merc leader stat should affect enabled commands. High skill allow you to give orders such as 'shoot snipers' , shoot 'wounded' etc, on the other hand, low speech allows u only for commands like AVV said. Same for 'outpost' commands like: 'guard this place' etc.

If mercs will be ever balanced, i think they sholud replace ALL combat skills of merc leader. That char should be completely uneffective in shooting, and his duty is to control mercs. If build is great, he can almost act like point&click.

[Solar]

These actually seem pretty nice.

Simple orders, seem to cover most things. You'd need a move here and spread out order too I think.

Unlocking them as speech increases seems good too, as does a delay in their implementation based upon speech and AP being drained.

I was thinking of limiting merc types based on speech, say 100% needed to get energy, 150% for mutants etc (numbers off the top of my head to be an example), but if orders are being linked to speech it might be better to link that to barter.

I wonder if its possible for us to create teams, so you could issue orders separately. Then you really would be getting close to having a pure leader build.

Would be two other areas for support perks too.

 

[avv]

Simple orders, seem to cover most things. You'd need a move here and spread out order too I think.

Move here could be: Click "Regroup" and then point a hex, mercs will move there. If you click yourself, the mercs will regroup around the player.
I beleave the best way to keep control on mercs is that if they follow the player without delay like some probes. The player is a planet and the mercs are moons or satellites.

Attacking without actually attacking enemy yourself could be: click "Hostile" and click on enemy. Clicking yourself will just set the mercs on readyness.

[greece crisis]

- giving orders should cost APs. your mercs, are your combat skill, so when you force your mercs to shoot, that will cost you attack amount of APs. and that is logical, because yelling need focus/time/energy, so it should be normal action, which consume your 'mana'.

bullshit! this is bad idea. so i have m leader with 5ap and i have to wait 5s before i can give new order? it could be good idead if you can give orders to all your mercs at same time even if you dont see them. otherwise it will be pointles

[JovankaB]

If mercs will be ever balanced, i think they sholud replace ALL combat skills of merc leader. That char should be completely uneffective in shooting, and his duty is to control mercs. If build is great, he can almost act like point&click.

Someone with 3 mutants or 5 BG mercs maybe it would make sense, but slavers need combat abilities.

AP idea is interesting - either you fight yourself or you give commands to mercs.
This way leader build could still have combat abilities.

But "attack" command is usually given by shooting at someone and it takes AP already...

So i have m leader with 5ap

Maybe there should be "leadership points" based on CH or Speech...
Similar to AP but used for commands. But I think it would be too complicated.

5 AP means you are pretty much some old guy on a wheelchair so don't complain you can't lead army...

[greece crisis]

or i am lord of war and i am veteran, som my mercs are boosted and i dont need to shoot by myslef.

[Solar]

I think its going a bit far to say they should be useless. But AP to give orders doesn't mean they will automatically be useless.

They'd just be trading combat moves for changing orders.