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Do you like this idea?

Yes
- 38 (84.4%)
No
- 7 (15.6%)

Total Members Voted: 45


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Author Topic: New Town Control system  (Read 9661 times)

Nice_Boat

  • I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
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New Town Control system
« on: February 17, 2010, 10:49:16 am »

The idea that could somewhat support the faction in control and make it flow more like normal combat and less like a bar brawl would be to create an entity called "town militia".

The idea is as follows:
- you can buy cheap (33% - 50% of the normal price or even less, would require balancing) mercenaries (10 to 20, depending on the type - for example, Den would have 20 metal armor dudes with assault rifles, BH 10 mutants with rocket launchers and miniguns) belonging to the militia at the Town Control dude if you control the city for an hour; if the militia prove to die too often (ie. there's none of them present most of the time), make them spawn with no cost after an hour and have 1 or 2 casualties (depending on the town - 2 for Den AR dudes, 1 for BH mutants) respawn every 15, 10 or 5 minutes (that'd would also require balancing);
- you don't need any charisma to recruit militia, they don't follow anyones orders and spawn on specific town map points;
- ALL the town guards are removed - militia is to replace them;
- militia does not respawn when killed (if we go with the "buy" option - it'd require timeouts on buying balanced like the aforementioned militia respawn of the "auto" option);
- militia members have infinite ammo and don't spawn any items when killed;
- all the militias are equally competent; 2 Den dudes should be more or less equally capable in combat (in terms of HP and skills) as BH mutants;
- militia will attack any member of a faction from a list introduced by the town's captor - I'm thinking of a friend/enemy list just like at the faction base, which gets saved after you lose the town to prevent needless micromanagement (of course all the in-game factions would be listed); the list should include "non-alligned" as well; initially after the capture everyone aside from NPC factions and "non-alligned" would be listed as an enemy to further reduce micromanagement;
- militia members don't attack "friendly" players who cause collateral damage to non-key (untalkable) NPCs - if you burst a civvie while targeting another player, you don't get shot, if you burst a civvie while targetting a civvie, you get shot, if you burst Metzger or a trader while targetting anything, you get shot; still "enemy" players are the top priority;
- to control the town you need to kill all the militia, talk with the TC dude and then wait the usual 20 minutes;
- capturing the town makes everyone's listed on the "don't shoot" list (aside from NPC factions and non-alligned) karma at that town go back to 0.

The reward for controlling the town would be in caps paid per hour and perhaps some resources based on what the town has in the Fallout lore. Given the more stress this system would place on the team trying to control the town for prolonged periods of time I think the ammount should be a bit boosted - like 3000 caps per hour or so to make people really care for the potential profits without giving the faction too much of an advantage. It'd require balancing for sure, but I'd up it a bit.

This sort of a deal would still give a bonus to the faction that manages to capture the town somewhat permamently while allowing for some really dynamic combat, especially at peak hours. It'd prevent defence by camping on the worldmap and encourage actually being present in the town to fully utilise and coordinate with the militia. It'd also give you an ability to attack the town 24/7, giving the PvP players way more fun. Even more, it'd prevent 4 bluesuits from troll-taking the town which is and always was one of the most ridiculous aspects of TC. So, in theory, all the pathologies plaguing PvP nowadays would be removed.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 12:53:19 pm by Nice_Boat »
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gordulan

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New Town Control system
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2010, 11:37:23 am »

yeah, but what about up ordinary players trying to make a living, the last thing i want to do is to come to gecko to learn energy expert and have a 100% chance of being shot and having all my stuff looted from my corpse...
from what i understand you want to make the northern towns inacessible to all unalligned players.
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Nice_Boat

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New Town Control system
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2010, 11:42:14 am »

yeah, but what about up ordinary players trying to make a living, the last thing i want to do is to come to gecko to learn energy expert and have a 100% chance of being shot and having all my stuff looted from my corpse...
from what i understand you want to make the northern towns inacessible to all players not in a gang

Well, the default setting for non-gang players would be "friendly" - and if some faction decides to switch it to "kill on sight", then they're absolutely bound to receive some hate/flak/whatever. Actually, such a situation could make for some interesting, spontaneous "raids" on the PvP towns made by players who don't really care about PvP. It would make who-controls-what issues actually matter and force more player interaction, bringing the gang players and pvm players/ncr dwellers together. Oh, and you can learn Energy Expert in the Enclave - all of it. Armorer too. SG - Raiders. BG - Reno. Basically all (or most of) the professions can be obtained in towns that wouldn't have any militia.

gordulan

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New Town Control system
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2010, 11:45:27 am »

hmm, then why does the wiki seem to say that you can only get the 1st lvl of the proffesion in bh and gecko... :-\
sorry, off topic, but still, not quite off course
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Nice_Boat

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New Town Control system
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2010, 11:48:09 am »

hmm, then why does the wiki seem to say that you can only get the 1st lvl of the proffesion in bh and gecko... :-\

That's a common misconception. For example, if you have a guy who is listed as Armorer [3], it means he can give you profession levels up to 3, not only the third one. So basically, if we follow the Armorer example, you could just get 180 repair, take your 60 MFC and about 9000 caps (don't remember how much it costs right now) and get your three levels all at once at Navarro.

gordulan

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Re: PvP, Town Control, Perm control
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2010, 12:10:10 pm »

thanks boat, maybe someone should put this up on the wiki though, just in case...
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Izual

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2010, 12:15:41 pm »

Some good things, I think however that change is too big to be implemented anytime soon, maybe you could give some little ideas to improve actual system ?

Quote
- you don't need any charisma to recruit militia, they don't follow anyones orders and spawn on specific town map points;
- ALL the town guards are removed - militia is to replace them;
- militia does not respawn when killed (if we go with the "buy" option - it'd require timeouts on buying balanced like the aforementioned militia respawn of the "auto" option);
- militia members have infinite ammo and don't spawn any items when killed;
- to control the town you need to kill all the militia, talk with the TC dude and then wait the usual 20 minutes;
I like this part ; where you can seize control anytime you want by attacking the town and successfully killing its guards.

Quote
- all the militias are equally competent; 2 Den dudes should be more or less equally capable in combat (in terms of HP and skills) as BH mutants;
Here I totally disagree ; all towns have not thugs of the same strength, and it would add some more interest in choosing to fight in that town rather than another town ; with time big towns could have a difficulty level that makes them unable to be taken by small gangs, whereas small towns could be affordable by any gang - factions could agree in letting small towns to small gangs.
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Nice_Boat

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2010, 12:17:49 pm »

Here I totally disagree ; all towns have not thugs of the same strength, and it would add some more interest in choosing to fight in that town rather than another town ; with time big towns could have a difficulty level that makes them unable to be taken by small gangs, whereas small towns could be affordable by any gang - factions could agree in letting small towns to small gangs.

That's a good idea too - to keep the things balanced you'd have to have lesser rewards for "easier" towns, but I can see how it could work just as well and be less "gamey".

Izual

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2010, 12:26:31 pm »

Yes, increasing the reward in the towns with strong thugs is a good idea to go with that system. It can balance it a bit more.
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"Another problem is that we listen to the vocal players, who in many cases are wrong-headed."
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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 12:45:07 pm »

Good suggestion. It would add some dynamism.

=>Question to developers: If accepted, is it difficult/long to program this?
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Bartosz

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 12:55:26 pm »

Yeah, a bit. Though I don't read it thoroughly yet.
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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2010, 01:38:03 pm »

Good idea, but  I doubt it gets implemented anytime soon (too complicated).

Solar

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2010, 01:49:40 pm »

Its interesting, I was thinking maybe some NPC raiders coming into TC would spice it up, but this could work instead.

Do you mean that multiple gangs could buy "mercenaries" at once, then they all spawn at the start of TC hour and only when all hostile mercs are gone that you could take the town?
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Izual

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2010, 02:00:31 pm »

That's somehow his idea I think ; the good point of it is that you can't manage those mercenaries (thugs), nor place them. You pay for them all at once and then you're done. Maybe you could buy for a new squad of them too, if you were paying a very expensive price ?

Another suggestion, Nice_Boat, maybe when all the thugs are dead, the town does not belong to your faction anymore, but is returning to a neutral state ?
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Solar

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Re: New Town Control system
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2010, 02:29:27 pm »

It would (perhaps) force everyone to actually fight at the same time instead of, wait on WM -> enter -> clearout -> wait for other side to do the same ... repeat.

Of course the reward would probably have to increase to make spending all this money on mercs worthwhile.

I don't think having to protect the mercs would be a good idea though. Shouldn't be about who can spam the most mercs wins.
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