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Randomness in Fonline 2238

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avv:

--- Quote from: Johnnybravo on November 01, 2011, 03:18:24 PM ---Anyway, the question is whether it is possible and maybe whether it would work, not whether it's going to happen, because it is not. So no need to start any drama.
--- End quote ---

Indeed, besides the only really problematic random occurances in fonline are just crits and random encounters.
Crits are just over the top when it comes to effects and random encounters are nothing but a nuisance.

Gladly hitchance is basically always 95%, it would blow badly if we had to deal with constant 30-70% hitchances. It wouldn't be that bad for burst, but for single shot guns it'd make combat random as hell.

In fact the game could do some more randomness when it comes to encounter content, plus crafting and gathering outcomes. Randomness in these areas are actually interesting and fun.

RavenousRat:

--- Quote from: avv on November 01, 2011, 03:58:39 PM ---Gladly hitchance is basically always 95%, it would blow badly if we had to deal with constant 30-70% hitchances. It wouldn't be that bad for burst, but for single shot guns it'd make combat random as hell.

--- End quote ---
Lolwhat, it will affect both bursts and single shots equally, may be even bursts more, just imagine you survived 30 bursts from avenger minigun in point blank, only because 1st or 2nd or 3rd bullet of 40 rolled <70? ;p Avenger minigun will to in point blank damage to bluesuiter equal from 8 to 440 without perks and ammo adj.
Situation 1:
Bluesuiter was hit for 8 damage being bursted from avenger mini in point blank!
Situation 2:
Bluesuiter was hit for 440 damage being bursted from avenger mini in point blank!
Yeah,

--- Quote from: avv on November 01, 2011, 03:58:39 PM ---It wouldn't be that bad for burst

--- End quote ---
right. Not much difference. Stable constant damage. Try to burst with AR with low SG skill but with 60-70% to hit in point blank, the damage will be totally chaotic, from "miss" and "10 damage" to "200-300 damage"


--- Quote from: avv on November 01, 2011, 03:58:39 PM ---Crits are just over the top when it comes to effects and random encounters are nothing but a nuisance.

--- End quote ---
So you don't like randomness because of overpowered crits? So why not to suggest to make them less powerful or ability to resist them, etc. No, you want to make combat plain, without random factors, just:
You were hit for 20 damage.
You were hit in the head for 40 damage. (x2 damage mult for example)
You again were hit in the head for 40 damage.
Damn, you again were hit in the head for 40 damage.
And again were hit in the head for 40 damage.
And again.
And now you, at last, died.

2 guys meet in the wasteland.
1 has 100 HP, second 50 HP, both deal 20 damage per shot.
80 / 30
60 / 10
40 / death.
They meet again.
40 / death.
Again.
40 / death.
Again.
40 / death.
Again.
etc.
Nice.

About encounters, Badger made a suggestion here long time ago
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15546.0
but level scaling of course isn't good, one of reasons why FOnline is great MMO is because it doesn't have that silly thing.

If not a suggestion above, then atleast make encounters hard to escape by some other way, so you can't just leave it by running on grid, and of course make them less frequent than now, or atleast some seconds CD between encounters, so you won't get 10 encounters in one square. It'll produce more taxi alts to make trips safers, so it'll require changing it skill. Right now party outdoorsman skill equals to highest outdoorsman skill from all members, while it can be changed to lowest one, so outdoorsman will be individual skill for you and OD-alts will die. It'll make cars useful, but it's ok, as they consume resources, require maintenance and you need to buy/steal it first.

And your complains has nothing to do with "random" and "constant" things.

avv:
Players from requiem could tell their experiences from there. In my understanding crits don't have much say in pvp there.


--- Quote from: RavenousRat on November 01, 2011, 04:42:32 PM ---Yeah,right. Not much difference. Stable constant damage. Try to burst with AR with low SG skill but with 60-70% to hit in point blank, the damage will be totally chaotic, from "miss" and "10 damage" to "200-300 damage"
--- End quote ---

That's weird because I've exped about 4 sg chars who started with 50% sg burst hit chance and they simply dealt less damage with the smaller hit chance. No over the top effects noticed, except more total misses ofcourse.


--- Quote ---So you don't like randomness because of overpowered crits? So why not to suggest to make them less powerful or ability to resist them, etc. No, you want to make combat plain, without random factors
--- End quote ---


Now you're just making things up. In my opinion crit effects are simply too random, either too weak or too strong. Crits can't be plain because we got targetting areas with differend effects. Atm headshot can cause either 10 damage or 120 damage and KO.
What I'd do, I'd nerf the over the top effect, buff the weakest effect and remove eye targetting.
I'd also put range limit for headshot. Perhaps 15hexes (30 for scoped weapons). This means that snipers would more often shoot targetted shots in torso and deal raw damage and knockdowns. In close range they would shoot headshots but risk the close proximity. Cripplers could shoot arm and legshots from all ranges. Groinshot could be used against some overpowered armor with high defenses or against specific type of char.
I'd scrap knockouts and change them into concussion. This would mean getting those red action points as in KO but you can't do anything else but walk.


--- Quote ---If not a suggestion above, then atleast make encounters hard to escape by some other way, so you can't just leave it by running on grid, and of course make them less frequent than now, or atleast some seconds CD between encounters, so you won't get 10 encounters in one square. It'll produce more taxi alts to make trips safers, so it'll require changing it skill. Right now party outdoorsman skill equals to highest outdoorsman skill from all members, while it can be changed to lowest one, so outdoorsman will be individual skill for you and OD-alts will die. It'll make cars useful, but it's ok, as they consume resources, require maintenance and you need to buy/steal it first.
--- End quote ---

But doesn't this mean that if we encounter something after dying, we keep dying all the time because we can't fight since we don't have gear after dying? Would have to make gear tents next to every spawn.

Surf:

--- Quote from: Johnnybravo on November 01, 2011, 03:18:24 PM ---Not true, the whole name has been misused. It stands for role playing game, however that does not mean the character you control has to be controlled by his or her stats. By definition it IS kind of roleplaying, but it it not necessity to make a good game.
Additionally roleplaying might be just as well the fact your character has a role in story - like being Gordon Freeman in Cra Half-Life.

--- End quote ---



So 99% of all videogames ever released are RPGs as you "play a role in that game!".Brilliant!  ::) Roleplaying in a cRPG should always come from the characters skill projected by skills in the given ruleset, not some makebelieve stuff, dressing dolls or setting up self imposed constraints even though the game doesn't even care ("My character is a paladin, so I cannot slay this man because he is a paladin! The game doesn't care but I do!11") - basically LARPing.

Reading such absurd stuff I no longer wonder about such suggestions like this here.

Johnnybravo:

--- Quote ---I'd also put range limit for headshot. Perhaps 15hexes (30 for scoped weapons).

--- End quote ---
It does not matter how you do critical hits if they are still random, while still being the only way to win the combat.
 Bursts are quite simple, yet well working feature. Sure they can crit for absurd amount of damage, and make combat fast, but that's still ok, because fast combat is not necessarily bad, and crit does not make any huge difference (because you cannot obtain surplus of Power Armors and damage jumps up from zero to kill only for gatling laser).
 But single shots themself do really shit damage, and are all just random. Limiting them like "I don't want anyone to shoot eyes" is just distraction from original Fallout way, and not really necessary (you have the targeting doll already there, all in default UI, changing it would change that as well), it's just much easier to change the stuff beyond players POV. You are absolutely right, that buffing lowest effect and nerfing the best one will result in less random game, but that can be either absurd amount like crit for 80 and hit for 70, or it will still be life/death. There is something that must make fast shot viable (basically "single shot burst"), and there is something that must do everything else some kind of "crippler" role. This would probably mean that single shot weapons would never deal huge numbers by just one shot, but they could still have fatal effects of crippling or being able to do meaningful damage (depending on trait choice and as well player input). Crippling can be possibly made less random as well, you can have some ideas.

Though no matter how you look at it, balance in Fallout Tactics always seems like the best what can be done with Fonline.


--- Quote ---Reading such absurd stuff I no longer wonder about such suggestions like this here.
--- End quote ---
Your opinion is so relevant that it expands this discussion with something meaningful... no wait you are just trolling.

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