Other > General Game Discussion
Randomness in Fonline 2238
Marko69:
--- Quote from: Surf on October 28, 2011, 02:36:38 PM ---
All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? ::)
An RPG with all the randomness and dice throwing taken out is nothing more than some action adventure, or a 2d shooter.
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Gambling, that's what brings the thrill! Just that computer calculated chances are becoming obvious when repeating something in single player. It works ok for multiplayer if you ask me, currently criticals are only used for knocking down enemy so others can finish him off.
avv:
--- Quote from: Surf on October 28, 2011, 02:36:38 PM ---All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? ::)
An RPG with all the randomness and dice throwing taken out is nothing more than some action adventure, or a 2d shooter.
--- End quote ---
There's good and bad randomness. Good randomness is when you randomly encounter a treasure while walking in the desert, or randomly craft a little better equipment than you expected. Random nice surprises are good.
Then there's bad randomness which basically goes like this: "you were critically hit in the head for 120 damage, had your armor bypassed and were knocked out for -20 ap"
--- Quote from: RavenousRat on October 28, 2011, 02:52:38 PM ---Then this game isn't for them, what a problem. If they want to play 2D strategy shooter, let them play something else.
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So all our pvp players leave this game. Who's gonna do pvp then?
--- Quote ---And again, if you planned something and random factor ruined your plans, it means that the same can happen to your enemy, so total there's no difference at all, it only adds unexpected events and gives chance to weaker be better than stronger.
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It doesn't matter that the enemy is subjected under same conditions. He neither deserves too good or too bad luck. Unexpected events aren't wanted in pvp, not the kinds crits produce. It wouldn't matter if crits did randomly either 30 or 50 damage, but the scale of randomness is so massive that you can do either 10 damage or 120 damage and KO. I could actually say that people hate kos, cripples and knockdowns more than random damage.
And what comes to weaker vs strong, that only exists in random encounters and in situations where players don't want to fight. In pvp you choose what you risk because the choice to fight is yours. Nobody forces you to go tc or new reno.
--- Quote ---And what do you want? Boring constant damage? The damage only needs to be nerfed a bit, just to make players live a bit longer, but it doesn't require constant numbers. Just return all 10mm - laser pistol and other low tier weapons to thier original low damage, and lower higher weapon damage instead, make armor really protect not only for style and nerf crits effects like KO and instakill that instantly makes player out of game. There shouldn't be possibilities to kill player in 1 second, exclude cases when 10 people shooting him at the same time. But constant damage or other possibilities has nothing to do with it, if you want not to die from crits fast.
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Sounds reasonable. Crits need more reliablity and less over and under the top effects. The reason they are so strong in first place is because chosen one had to defeat groups of enemies alone. We don't play as chosen one.
What comes to boring constant damage, it's good because it encourages focus fire teamwork. Just needs to be made so that you can deal more damage than heal. Currently when 2 bg tanks fight they can't kill each other if both have enough superstims.
--- Quote ---And this is RPG, your characters is in game, not you, he might miss, hit non vital part of body, he's human, not bot, you can't be sure for 100% in all your actions.
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Okay, let's implement more rpg elements then. My character just succesfully convinced your char to lead me in his base and hand out all his stuff. Dice rolls are great.
Bartosz:
--- Quote from: Surf on October 28, 2011, 02:36:38 PM ---All those PnP/RPG players must, by your logic, be having eternal torment playing with dices, hm? ::)
--- End quote ---
You can't deny they don't suffer from time to time:)
RavenousRat:
--- Quote from: avv on October 28, 2011, 03:44:13 PM ---Okay, let's implement more rpg elements then. My character just succesfully convinced your char to lead me in his base and hand out all his stuff. Dice rolls are great.
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Yeah, your speech skill roll against victim's speech skill roll to become invisible in party list, than more rolls you're doing at the same day, than less you to succeed! That's how RPGs should work from character point of view, not:
A: "I can upgrade your tent to have more space if you'll bring me there!"
B: "Okay, tag me, me wants upgraded tent with many room!"
B: "Hey, why are you looting my items?"
A: "I'm making more empty space!"
Because it'll be the same as if you need to click needed bodypart on player's model to hit it, not choose on special created window for example. Of course RT mode kills alot at RPG, as player plays more role than needed in it, character with lower sequence can shoot you 1st, only because player has better reaction or internet connection, what isn't right in RPG.
Surf:
--- Quote from: scypior on October 28, 2011, 03:46:23 PM ---You can't deny they don't suffer from time to time:)
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But that's just how it is - luck ofcourse plays a role. The same way you can fail pretty bad due to a bad die throw, you can score a critical success as well. Where's the problem?
To simplify it even further, what would any boardgame look like if you take away the dices, or make it so the dices always land on the same number the player wants, like avv said? Would Monopoly be a better game if there'd be no dices at all? Or this, wouldn't it look weird if there'd be no randomness in die throwing here? :
It would, it would be fucking boring.
--- Quote from: avv ---There's good and bad randomness. Good randomness is when you randomly encounter a treasure while walking in the desert, or randomly craft a little better equipment than you expected. Random nice surprises are good.
--- End quote ---
In your previous comment you basically said all randomness is bad (wtf..), now you say there is good randomness and bad randomness. Revisionist much?
--- Quote ---Then there's bad randomness which basically goes like this: "you were critically hit in the head for 120 damage, had your armor bypassed and were knocked out for -20 ap"
--- End quote ---
Ah, so it's only good if it auto-fellates you and makes something "awesome", but losing something is a no-go? ::)
Pretty much agree with all what RavenousRat said here.
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