Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Swinglinered]

Dual logging can be used for various things. It's bad when used in pvp to scout and spawn additional pvp chars or in safe towns when used to shoot'n'loot.

However many players use it to create tents and escort theirs and their friends' characters to bases. This kind of cheating doesn't hurt anyone.

Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.

Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.

Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.

[Jackall]

standard gameplay

Quit the game.
Please.

[falloutdude]

Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.

Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.

Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.

well then maybe anothers should not wait fuck what about someone like me who has no one in my base sense all others quit the game? i should not be able to add new alts to my base?

dont get me wrong i have never dual loged myself i dont even know how to but its getting more and more of a better idea to me everyday. i need alts added.

dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.

[T-888]

dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.

Really lame is keeping fighting ready characters on world map that is the most lamest thing you can do with dual log , rest is acceptable , even scouts in TC because there are ways how to make them useless anyway.

[Izual]

As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.

I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)

I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.

[Johnny Nuclear]

Hell yeah , dual log for life gm's have already banned 4 my characters , but only 2 were actually dual logging the ... blah blah

whine moar, if you dualloged you deserve it.

I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever

nah There always were some players who supported it. But offcourse always just minority :/

[Michaelh139]

As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.

How does the other staff cause you a headache when trying to solve problems without breaking rules?  And why would you care what some players say?  The majority of those are trolls...  others are just angry and letting off steam or uneducated at the game.  And there is no reason to reply that the rules are fair, because they are fair.  Nuff said.  Also, this is a thread saying dual-logging should be punished, so is this not motivation enough to go out and do the right thing that you and very few other people have the ability to?  Unlike the helpless players being punished by the very cheaters you should be catching?

I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)

Surely you've gotten a thank you, or a thumbs up, or some "friendly" critique.  Because I've seen it.  On the forum, about your events.  It is hardly 99% negative feedback.  and even less are insults, for forum at least.  And the people insulting you are the more than likely the very people who break the rules, so you should really be taking pride in it, or if you really think it is deserved, look into the situation.

I figure GMs are as offline as much for same reason as players, waiting for wipe, not this.

I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.

We're "all" guilty?  That's a pretty broad accusation, and I think for this and this alone, you do deserve to be insulted, because hardly everyone is to blame just because some players are trolling you, or that you or others choose to stop using your ability for the better good of the beta-test.  And players fight for fair game every day, whenever they report to GMs cheating players, or report to GMs about bugs.  I also don't see how GMs are struggling. They're/Your job isn't to develop content, only to disable bugs for fixing, or ban cheaters, which only really requires you sitting around watching youtube vids waiting for a player to report a problem, and for you to do a quick investigation, and make a decision, then it's back to youtube or whatever your other internet preference is.

I don't have any right to tell you you have to do a good job, or you have to do it period.  But I do want you to understand why I felt this post was wrong, and possibly misinformed/understood.  It's not like you have to listen to players complain.  Just avoid their posts all-together and try to focus on what positive you can find.
I hope you reconsider your statement on not bothering with the cheaters, and understand where I am coming from.

[T-888]

As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.

I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)

I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.

Okay this all doesn't sound candy and fun , i think game masters and even staff sometimes take the " negative feedback " too much to heart , it really depends on how you look at things.

If you see someone complaining , giving you your called negative feedback , criticism and even insults?!?!(maybe from special persons witch you should just ignore) etc. etc. and you think of it " ahh another whiner who doesn't appreciate our work like we don't do enough already " or " oh look someone gives us feedback on what needs improvement next time we will act ".

Would you like to see all time positive feedback that everything is fine ? I hate to disappoint you but i ain't familiar with this kind of happy land.

Do the staff and game masters need feedback about subjects , features , game mechanics etc. etc. that are already really fine , good , perfected and doesn't need any change ? This is not a troll i'm just asking. Because then i will start to make useless topics like " i love 2238 combat system " where i would count things witch i like about 2238 combat.

If you want players to support some impossible systems , rules and features that are horribly wrong then i think your out of luck.

If you still see that there is still a player base , a community , people are kicking ass and chewing bubble gum in redding then you must have done something very right and really good in the past few years to hold them here and they like this server , do you really need acknowledgement for such things ?

[avv]

Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.

Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.

Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.

It's only away from my patience and my friend's patience when I have to bother them with some simple task. They have to stop whatever they were doing to help me with a thing that takes 1 minute, or I have to wait for them to finish the task. How is it away from my enemy that me and my pals don't have to deal with pointless waiting? Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?

In the end everyone will have all the gear and alts they want so getting gear and alts fast don't matter anymore. In such situation when I face my enemy somewhere with equal gear it doesn't matter a damn thing whether or not me or him had the advantage of transferring alts in base or making tents with dual logs. But if he or me dies in that combat and jumps back with a dual logged mercleader, it's starts to matter.

[OskaRus]

Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?

I think that this question should explain difference between harshnes of wasteland and bad feature.

Anyway imho dual loging should be encouraged like in Eve and not prevented. We have low player population and if it become doubled because of dual logs it is still increase. You can anyway effectively manage only one char in combat. And if client would allow dualboxing it would simplify it for those already using it and allow it for everyone else.

Rules which are not taken seriously by most of comunity does not indicate that comunity is made of evil villans but that those rules are bad. Any rules which are not guarded by serverside scripts are easily bypassable and very hard and painfull to enforce.

[Johnny Nuclear]

seriously
you compare 2238 with EVE ?

[Savager]

I think that its impossible to prevent all people to dual log. And its true, some times it may be usefull (like making shared tent with your miner/crafter and your pvp character) and other times is bad (like having combat character in map, an dual loged merc leader in WM).
Instead of that should be regulated, so all people can do it safety and cool.

Another thing is about merc leaders. Its very unfair the current system, it whould be better to have less companions, and maybe with respawn.
Because the real thing in Fallout 2 about companions was that u cant have players helping you, so npc do the work.
But here, u can have human companions, so it should be balanced a little that feature. When i got a little time i whould make a post about the things that i like and dislike about sistem.

[avv]

Anyway imho dual loging should be encouraged like in Eve and not prevented. We have low player population and if it become doubled because of dual logs it is still increase. You can anyway effectively manage only one char in combat. And if client would allow dualboxing it would simplify it for those already using it and allow it for everyone else.

Allowing dualboxing just like that would deteriorate the gameplay and fonline as we know it would turn into multitask online. Instead we can observe for what dual logging is used mostly and then design features to discourage it.

Three main encouragements to dual log:

1. Escort jobs. Small jobs that require another player's presence. Most common are base adding and tentmaking.
2. Avoiding cooldowns
3. Pvp

First reason can be prevented by allowing one character to make as many tents as he wishes and call additional characters in that tent. In addition inviting characters to tents and bases shouldn't require escort. Once the char is invited or befriended, he sees the base or tent on worldmap.

Second reason can be avoided by removing cooldowns and replacing them with something that demands constant attention. This is already on the works and we will see how it turns out.

Last one, pvp is trickier. The core problem is that anyone can enter towns at any time and trying to change that would be impossible. Yet the troubble dual logs cause in pvp is the worst but it's also most visible and easiest to notice. We have proxy looters, scouts, merc leaders and additional full geared pvp chars.
Proxy scouts and looters could be harassed by making dying more severe and costly so that these characters can't be spammed for free.
At this moment banhammer is the best medicine vs pvp dual logging. It's so easy to notice because nobody in his right mind brings a non-combat bluesuit character in combat as his main.

[cannotspace]

Don't judge too quick, there were GMs called on me and a friend because our names had some similarity.

[Swinglinered]

well then maybe anothers should not wait fuck what about someone like me who has no one in my base sense all others quit the game? i should not be able to add new alts to my base?

dont get me wrong i have never dual loged myself i dont even know how to but its getting more and more of a better idea to me everyday. i need alts added.

dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.

My gang stopped playing, too.

I ask for an escort or 2 when they drop by, if I remember.

It's only away from my patience and my friend's patience when I have to bother them with some simple task. They have to stop whatever they were doing to help me with a thing that takes 1 minute, or I have to wait for them to finish the task. How is it away from my enemy that me and my pals don't have to deal with pointless waiting? Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?

In the end everyone will have all the gear and alts they want so getting gear and alts fast don't matter anymore. In such situation when I face my enemy somewhere with equal gear it doesn't matter a damn thing whether or not me or him had the advantage of transferring alts in base or making tents with dual logs. But if he or me dies in that combat and jumps back with a dual logged mercleader, it's starts to matter.

The logistics subgame/metagame is influenced by ease of escorts/etc.

Patience can be just as decisive as twitch skills.

The "Wait Strategy" vs. "Zerg Strategy": which is better and why?
Discuss!