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[Tomowolf]

So you would have to locate them (by shit on ground), get to them from the side they dont look, then cripple them (or encircle them) and finaly, kill them and loot some resource from them.. It would need cooperation with players and it would provide very different gameplay than stay and push the fire button.

Please... Players don't want to have pain in ass... We got enough of them by having stupid cooldowns.
That way you just would bore the player to death and make gameplay more real but more hard for players
(especially those lonely).
We do not want craft the stuff because the materials for them are hard to get due to cooldowns and craft brings small income in exp and caps (imagine making MFCs or rockets...). Instead of that players would get the special place on map which will manufacture for them ammo and weapons (some factories) or dungeons like Army Depots (SAD for example or Glow). These would be more funny and not that hard to get by groups - lonely players instead of that would just make SIMPLE tier for them (tier 2 guns, armors max) in normal mines etc.

[ShemsuHor]

Hmm, to find junk you look for a ruin location on the WM, right? You go there, and sometimes you meet someone. What if the WM will have more locations like this for example some really rock-ish tile(s) and on entering filled with ores to dig. If there would be a lot of locations like theese, it enable lonely players to mine without getting their asses shot off provided they are lucky enough not to choose the location filled with minigun campers. Theese locations have to be plenty all around the WM for it work. And, here's a bonus: Those locations with ores to gather will have both normal and HQ minerals. But to get the HQ minerals you'll have to use better equipement. If its all based on %; for example primitive tool will have 75% for normal stuff gain, sledge would provide 95% for normal but only 40% for HQ but then- a super sledge would give you 80% chance to get HQ materials. As for the cooldowns- scrap'em. The only restriction for players will be their weight limitation. Ofcourse some grinders will swarm a mine with mercs for protection and enough cows to get loads of the stuff out, but theres a chance that some other group comes in. Then again, why not make the brahmin carry weight for minerals smaller?
I also like the food idea. It could be used if a player gets overburdened by the things he carries. After eating something he will be able to run for some time, but there will be a cooldown between one meal and another to prevent carrying tons of ammo and weapons into a fight. Im watching this thread and I feel that you guys are forgetting one thing: This is a wasteland- after the war there are tons of resources just lying around waiting to be found. The solution form a few era's back with random resources was the one i liked the best. But then was the cooldowns that ruined almost every thing about it.

[Handyman]

Deathclaws and mutants with 99999hp to stop getting HQ !

But truly the One guy here said that give deathclaws and aliens get killed to be able to harvest HQ, would be hard for loners and kinda easy for gangs

BUT it can be " fixed " via amount of players entering the place. More players = more enemies or even stronger enemis to kill so maybe loners would solo em even but would still be hard !

My say:
 Way to reduce cooldown is better than removing it or just give a crackhead which will fit

[Lordus]

1) minerals, metals.. this is not Fallout (F1,F2, FTac., ..). Only mines in original Fallout universe were uranium (BH) and gold (Redding). So replace those resources with something more postapocalyptic (junk in cities, el. parts, parts from cars, broken weapons thath could be founded in some stores,...).

 So scavenge yes (fallout), mininig no (ultima online).

2) "The path is the destination!" phylosophy. Lets make scavenging (or mining, if you are addict to hammer) more entertaining, and people would like this part of the game, instead of thinking about bypassing it.
 
 In my previous post i suggest that players abilities should supercede characters statistics.

 Short story: Group of 3 players: Lordus, Sarakin and Bantz entered "abandoned mine" (you can use current mine maps). They know, that there is not any resource left, but mining machines contains of some important parts that could be used in laser weaponry. They have first to repair elevator.. (but they need some parts => INVESTITION of lvl 0 stuff), then they moved to underground level. Then they meet group of wanamingos. They are very though, but very vulnerable to knockback weapons. Lordus and Saraking use their shotguns, to knock them back, Bantz is last defence with his knockback perked hammer. They did not kill any beast, but they succesfully run through the mine tunnels to the doors with mining equipment. Their weapons are out of ammo, and they dont have many AP left, but with last Banz knockback attack, they throw wanamingo back from the doors, Bantz close the doors and Sarakin use his lockpick skill to temporary lockpicking the doors, so they are safe now. They heal their wound and prepare for deeper undeground level, because they know, that more deeper, better and more of mining equipment is there.."

 This is the way, how scavenging should be implemented. NOT Better hammer => more ore, not 90 percent in one skill, 90 ores mined..

 If this could be placed in some hierarchy: lvl 0 stuff  (shot gun, knockback shotgun shells, lockpick tools, rope, ..) needed for lvl 1 stuff ...., you dont have to afraid of huge amount of high tier weapons, because even group with tier max stuff would fail to get tier 2 or tier 3 stuff, because tier max stuff is good only to PvP, not for harvesting. So players (factions) would have to invest time to other than max tier stuff.
 
Players could barter with their different tier stuff if someone need something, players would need cooperate with another to succeed...

 OR current way : hammer and rock = ore. ore and workbench = weapon..

[Tomowolf]

Sorry, I didn't want to be rude but now....

Short story: Group of 3 players: Lordus, Sarakin and Bantz entered "abandoned mine" (you can use current mine maps). They know, that there is not any resource left, but mining machines contains of some important parts that could be used in laser weaponry. They have first to repair elevator.. (but they need some parts => INVESTITION of lvl 0 stuff), then they moved to underground level. Then they meet group of wanamingos. They are very though, but very vulnerable to knockback weapons. Lordus and Saraking use their shotguns, to knock them back, Bantz is last defence with his knockback perked hammer. They did not kill any beast, but they succesfully run through the mine tunnels to the doors with mining equipment. Their weapons are out of ammo, and they dont have many AP left, but with last Banz knockback attack, they throw wanamingo back from the doors, Bantz close the doors and Sarakin use his lockpick skill to temporary lockpicking the doors, so they are safe now. They heal their wound and prepare for deeper undeground level, because they know, that more deeper, better and more of mining equipment is there.."

I just can say one thins: Cool story bro.
This idea you tell by 3 posts and we still do not want it.
It is FACTION MOD and its not more fallot, based NOT on the quests and the universe but only on "lulz and fight".
More fun is when we get the stuff and fight each other than fight with some monsters to get weapons...
The way that is now is good but cooldowns need to be fixed somehow.
And to your idea... You know how it would look NOT in the theory? It will look like this" Group of players enter abadoned 'ruins', they encountered wanamigos, which rushed them to cripple thier eyes/hands/ and group of players are  overwhelmed by them and die in horrible way, trying to get some materials for one laser rifle".

[Lordus]

Tomowolf.. i dont want to be personal, but who is: "We dont want it.."? You are the community?

 I played since beggining of fonline at least some part of every era, and every era i found players (in my faction, in other faction, no faction), that liked to PvE for stuff in different ways..

 Brahmin hunters, speleology (examine caves for items, fight with cave beasts..), hunting enclave for stuff, ... . They did it alone or together.

 In second (or third era), when nothing happends, we used to say this sentence every day. "Lets hunt caravans". Few of our VSB players went into one mumble channel to track and kill caravns for stuff. Together, not to kill other players, but to ejoy some challegne. Even WoW (i did not played it for a second and i am proud of it) has its own PvE and PvP.

 On Requiem server (try it). you can play Cathedrall. call via radio stuff support from enclave or brotherhood, wait 15 minutes, than hostile NPC from that faction arrive (you have to kill them, via guns, mines, ...)., than car with stuff arived. You know, it is about the PATH, not the destination.

 I will be personal.. you dislike this idea so you think it would not work.. But this is not the final idea, this is concept that in some small form exist past eras (Caravans, Caves), or it exists on other fonline servers and it works.

 Dont tell me, that for you is satisfiing to use hammer on rock, than iron on work bench and finito. THE PATH IS THE DESTINATION BRO.

 And if you want free stuff, go to Hinkley. THere is a lot of fun.

[ShemsuHor]

I liked your idea Lordus. But i just cant believe there wont be any abusers that will ruin your idea. If i would want some stuff, id get some of my friends and wait and the entrance to that cave. When someone comes out of there- bam. The stuff is mine, no one's hurt. And this is just my idea of how to fuck players up. There are gonna be tons of them. Besides what about players that are playing fonline for the first time? They dont have any friends, and wont(if they are smart) rely on others to lead them into those locations and trust them enough) its a bit to harsh, even for the wasteland..

[Wichura]

Grid camping can be solved by adding more than one grids and random entering spawns.

I played since beggining of fonline at least some part of every era

You remind me Mysterious Stranger - known from stories, barely seen anywhere.

Scavenging locations don't have to be filled with hi-level creatures like aliens or floaters. Toxic Caves are one of my favourite places - few geckos than can be killed by any weapon (even a spear), chemical components to gather, fine enough to travel there from time to time. Moar like this could be fun.

[Pozzo]

Hmm, to find junk you look for a ruin location on the WM, right? You go there, and sometimes you meet someone. What if the WM will have more locations like this for example some really rock-ish tile(s) and on entering filled with ores to dig. If there would be a lot of locations like theese, it enable lonely players to mine without getting their asses shot off provided they are lucky enough not to choose the location filled with minigun campers. Theese locations have to be plenty all around the WM for it work. And, here's a bonus: Those locations with ores to gather will have both normal and HQ minerals. But to get the HQ minerals you'll have to use better equipement. If its all based on %; for example primitive tool will have 75% for normal stuff gain, sledge would provide 95% for normal but only 40% for HQ but then- a super sledge would give you 80% chance to get HQ materials. As for the cooldowns- scrap'em. The only restriction for players will be their weight limitation. Ofcourse some grinders will swarm a mine with mercs for protection and enough cows to get loads of the stuff out, but theres a chance that some other group comes in. Then again, why not make the brahmin carry weight for minerals smaller?

That was like that at the beginning. We were be able to find ores in random locations of the worldmap but it has been changed because it didn't work (ores too easy to find and to gather a lot).

But I agree with Lordus about one thing : scavenge is fallout style but mining and crafting is ultima style.
In a post-apocalyptic world what we like is to scavenge and repair the stuff we find. So we can use that stuff to kill people, raid towns or build a community of gentlemen to defend against raiders...

In my opinion the game is currently about "lulz and fight" and it just need to be "lulz and fight for everybody". I think we all agree with that.
This is not currently a "Faction Mod" but this is a "Big Faction Mod". So we a larger amount of areas to control small factions will be able to have fun as the biggest factions have. If a big alliance can control many areas at the same time they can't control ALL these areas so small factions can control other areas and have fun.

[Berko]

So crafting need resources, skill and tools.
Crafting timeout is not so bad, I mean the "1 hour limit".

We have now different way to get resources, I thinks they are all good.
In the past we got also some good things like barrels with amount of junk in cities and when empty we have to wait the next "refuel" of junk. We also got encounter with mineral/ore, I think that mine location is better but mine is sometimes to far away .. where these encounter was almost everywhere.

We also had another things in gathering, when we got a lot of science we found more electronics parts or minerals/ore, when we got a lot of outdoorsman we found more fruits/fibers, it was not so bad but we can thinking about gathering in a different way.

Instead of getting more resources with our skill, we will accumulate less time in our cooldown depend of our special. Example : A guy with 10 intelligence accumulate less time than a guy with 1 intelligence to gathering electronics parts. It's don't help with this (i think) useless gathering cooldown but give some fluctuation into the game, and i love when all isn't fixed. (And you will be able to say "the game is not boring you only have wrong stats to collect flint" .. gnehehe)

It's like the "1 hour" cooldown of crafting which can be varied by the number of profession (or the max profession level) like 40-50 minutes max for no profession and we gain 10 minutes each profession(or level of profession). I change almost nothing in the game but it give me the opportunity to ask Why do you remove information about professions in the character window (above perk/trait list) ?

About boring cooldown and fixed things why don't change repair cooldown like first aid cooldown ? (i mean change with skill)

Going back about gathering resource, I love found them in base, in encounter(ground/corps), in town. Maybe add junk as before in town and some base? Add minerals/ore as before in some (specials?) encounters?

And why not add dialog to some pnj to exchange caps against specific resource, like we pay for uranium at broken hills. And why not get back money against resource, can be nice especially for guys who like to kill people who collect resources, yeah we have to thinks about every people of the community.
The trapper guy in base who go hunt or something else for us was a nice idea but don't know if he still want sometimes kill us or try to make a revolution with our mercs ^^

An another i would to see is found some random things in encounters, why always a dead tribals with 1 stimpack when encounter raiders? why always a dead guys wearing armor with an antidote when encounter geckos?

Adding with that more possibility to slave? We just have to order him to "Go hunt" and after some times he .. damn he never come back! Grr

[ShemsuHor]

I thought about it just a minute ago:
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3940.msg35593#msg35593
Now lets assume that there are regions with some cars or other trash. Using repair on a car would yeld us a pipe which could be used as a barrel for the gun. The rest could be simillary found, even in the same location. Why not simply find the stuff? Digging the materials for the weapons would be obolete. The ammo could be a problem. 

[runboy93]

..Toxic Caves are one of my favourite places - few geckos than can be killed by any weapon (even a spear)..

I though you say better even unarmed.. Just 2 or 3 hits to eyes and boom Golden Gecko owned.

[Andr3aZ]

I understand that people have fun fighting each other to gain items and i like it too.
But we gotta have a rebound for the people who rather like to explore (alone or with buddys) all those forgotten and forsaken places to gather materials and maybe some "treasure" not only  using weapons but also non-combat skills and items i.e. lockpicking/repair/speech/science (lockpick-tools/tools etc) to aquire items, than to fight with other players.
I would love such things like Lordus idea in the game, maybe not explicit for gathering but for general PvE activities.

[Lordus]

 please, no cooldowns.. Cooldown is something that does not belong into developed game project. I understand it, that in first eras, there was something needed to limit stuff inflation, but there are many other ways, how to eliminate stuff inflation. The way i suggested is good IMO. Tier 0 stuff = no limit. Other tiers = need of investment of tier -1 stuff. So in fact, cooldowns are replaced by time you need to get minor tier stuff. But in entertaining way.

 I just dont understand players, why are they so obsesed with cooldowns like now. Different are developers, they have to spend their own time, so i understand when they implements cooldown as an easiest solution.

 But current game parts and mechanics allows to create better ways. Maps for dungeons are done. Just replace purpose of boring mines: hostile beasts, enviroment,...  that would need unique stuff to kill or disarm them. Guns are here too, perks too, only imagination and minor scripting is needed.

 Another examples of mines with wanamingos with their knockback vulnerability?
 
 Spore plants in outside mines (maps are already done) .. you need flamethrowers (tier 1 stuff that you can get in mines) and good antidote (tier 0 stuff, but need to kill scorpions), because sporeplants poison should be lethal.

 Or mines with very fast reswapning group of rats (10).. respawn time = 5 seconds => you have to make collateral damage (nades, RL), to eliminate them, then run. Or they will encircle you and you would be traped until death..

 Dog shepherd with 8 dogs.. 1) Kill all dogs and shepherd, or 2) kill shepherd and dogs will run away..

 Fire geckons in close range location = threat even for lvl 21 psycho powerbuild with combat armor..
 .....

 There are plenty of ways how to make every mining/scavenging place (or PvE) more chalenging, more uniqe than current way (do 5 quests, that use RL to kill centaurs until lvl 21). Look at glow.. you need to prepare yourself (anti rad drugs) if you dont want to die there, than use your non combat skills and finaly, brain, or you are trapped there and you die there.
 
 Why there every beast have to be killable? More entertaining would be, if there would be way how to disarm it, but still, it would be dangerous critter.

 (i.e.: snipe spore plants poison vac..)
 
 Talking about 5 sec., 5 minutes, whatever cooldowns as major game mechanism is... obsolete.

 Why in year 2011 the game from 1998 has to be same, even during game developement years, most mechanics are overcome. (Spore plant = plant --> no way how to eliminate plant with pistol.. but with flame, yes.. lets set up basic dmg resistance to 95 percent, flame to 0 percent and you have unique enemy with unique way how to kill it.. unique gameplay). Seriously, i dont think that ability that you can kill every beast with every weapon is the original Fallout spirit. I know that my post is not only anout gathering stuff, but i think that scavenging(mining) should be more unique and entertaining, not currently pain in the ass..

[X_Treme]

i liked the CD that the game had 2 wipes ago, I think the CD was better to trade between players