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[Radman2307]

yeah and in f2 rangers ask you to kill all slavers not to capture them. Even when you meat "rangers" encounter in f2 near ncr, and talk to them they go like "how many slavers you killed to day". 

Yeah but you wouldnt be playing as a Ranger you'd be taking on the role as a Law Enforcer (Rangers as far as i'm aware didnt care about Bandits or Raiders either.)

The way I understand Fallout lore is that Rangers are seperate to the NCR's Law Enforcement (I would also argue that in Fallout 2 they werent even part of the NCR Military community but more of a seperate military faction entirley, but thats just me.)

The role im proposing is sort of a fallout version of a State/Federal Marshal of the old wild west, im not proposing that players become NCR Rangers, i'm suggesting something different.

Well this suggestion is an alternative, capture and turn in slavers. The only problem i see is the necessity of follower slots and processing of these prisoners (sent for hard labour at redding, what else do you have in mind??)

Follower slots would work the same as with Slavers (charisma adding slots along with some perks) as to what happens to Slavers who are captured and taken to a local Sheriff well I was going to leave that down to your imagination.

My idea was to have the NPC either put into a Prison/Police Cell and then disappear after awhile (being sent to court for trial.)

What happens to the NPC's is down to the Devs and how they want to write it in, in Fallout 2 the Raider spy in the NCR Prison was going to be executed according to the cop in the station, we know that with Fallout New Vegas many ended up being put into forced labour and working on the railroad constructions (powder gangers) this would make sense in Fallout 2238's lore as the NCR has begun expanding its railway network already (simply have chain gangs under guard alongside some of the railway lines in certain encounters, it would make sense.)

Also obviously not every raider you encounter your going to be able to knock out and bring in, some your going to have to take down and kill but the option is there to take them in if you can (benefits being Caps, Experience and possible Karma gain)

[vedaras]

my point is that so called good guys of wasteland arent interested if you capture bad guys or not. And according to your suggestion you would even get reward. As i said before no logic in your suggestion, sorry bro :> It might add some fun ways to play game, but i dont see it fitting.

[Radman2307]

my point is that so called good guys of wasteland arent interested if you capture bad guys or not. And according to your suggestion you would even get reward. As i said before no logic in your suggestion, sorry bro :> It might add some fun ways to play game, but i dont see it fitting.

I think some people are interested in the idea of justice, especially the NCR.

Look at the Sheriff in Redding back in Fallout 2, if you went around killing the perps in the situations he'd want you to clean up he'd chew you out and only pay you half what you were suppose to get, the exception being Frog Morton but he was heavily armed and surrounded by thugs.

Also back in Fallout 2 if you killed the Raider Spy in the cells the guards would become hostile if I remember rightly.

Going WAY back to Fallout 1 if you, the player got caught stealing from Killians store he'd send you to jail to 'cool off' so to simply say that people arent interested in the idea of 'justice' in the fallout universe is wrong in my opinion, hell even Vault City had a prison (both in the courtyard and in the main city.)

The NCR is very interested in promoting the ideals of the 'old world' (as seen in Fallout NV with the NCR Prison and powder gangers back story.)

I see it as the NCR using it as a means of seperating themselves from the other 'wastelanders' as in saying (look we give people a trial and fair punishment to those who break our laws.)

[LagMaster]

1. recomandation: never argue with vedaras
2. ideea: good ideea, but again, what is Evil in this game?
3. question: how it will work for players?

[Radman2307]

1. recomandation: never argue with vedaras
2. ideea: good ideea, but again, what is Evil in this game?
3. question: how it will work for players?

Who's arguing? It's a debate! 

It seems as if Vedaras is missing some points im trying to make (around lore) so i'm just trying to clear them up.  

As to your other points:

2. ideea: good ideea, but again, what is Evil in this game? - As already stated the general concepts of 'bad' that most civilised towns would see as 'crimes' so:- Murder and Robbery (Raiders, Robbers, Bandits and Slavers)

3. question: how it will work for players? - (The same as slavery works, a player gets the Perk - after numerous quests, once he has the perk he encounters a raider, knocks the raider out and takes them to a Law Enforcement Office in a town for caps/exp)

[vedaras]

as i remember sheriff in redding also replied something to you on break up the brawl in saloon quest that "what are you going to jail all town" or something like that, when you decided to take the fighters in prison. I agree that good towns would be interested in killing bad guys, but you already get reward for that - their loot. For slaving people you lose reputation, you get very shitty reward for selling slaves, and you get kinda shitty help in combat from slaves. In here you would get money or something from nothing, since most of your mentioned people are hostile anyway, you fight them in any way. Also you dont lose any reputation or anything else by doing that so i still see the suggestion as not logical and not balanced.

[LagMaster]

how about capturing bad NPCs like slaves, but they can't help you in combat, they iwll just try to run, and then give them to a reprezentitive to get 200 caps

[Radman2307]

as i remember sheriff in redding also replied something to you on break up the brawl in saloon quest that "what are you going to jail all town" or something like that when you decided to take the fighters in prison. I agree that good towns would be interested in killing bad guys, but you already get reward for that - their loot.

He did but he said that because it wasnt 'economical' for the town to jail them (as in the mines would lose money by jailing the miners) the correct way to finish the quest wasnt implemented until Killaps Restoration patch (you talked both parties down for awsome XP reward.)

But if you killed the miners you'd again get chewed out.

For slaving people you lose reputation, you get very shitty reward for selling slaves, and you get kinda shitty help in combat from slaves. In here you would get money or something from nothing, since most of your mentioned people are hostile anyway, you fight them in any way. Also you dont lose any reputation or anything else by doing that so i still see the suggestion as not logical and not balanced.

Well the rewards for bringing a prisoner in would be on par with a slave, you'd again lose reptuation with the criminal elements of the Fallout World (No Hub Underworld work, No Mobster Family work in Reno, unable to join raiders ect, make it so family mobsters attack you on encounters ect, perhaps even bar some 'Mob Friendly' merchants from trading with you.)

Make it so there is a High-ish CHAR check to allow a person to join the faction/organisation.

It can be balanced just as easily so its on par and disabilitating as being a Slaver is, just make it so there are some perks to it.

[vedaras]

problem in here is that most criminal elements do not have their own faction. Like rogues/robbers/raiders/highwayman/gang/bootleggers/mobsters so you would lose nothing for them.

[Badger]

I don't see any clash with the game overall. Particularly as a significant part of the worldmap is now under NCR jurisdiction, it's in their interests to clean up their territory and surrounding areas (to help their inevitable expansion) in as lawful a way as possible. There'll always be work for people looking to bring criminals to task - Junktown, Broken Hills, Redding, the Hub, all have jails for a reason.

I think it would be a waste of time to set up a jurisdiction system - nobody's going to capture raiders near Gecko and bring them down to the Hub if they can hand them in somewhere closer. It wouldn't be worth it for the exceptionally few times someone takes the long way round.

I also think both this proposed system and slaving could easily be tied into the NPC faction system. Some factions want slave labour - you gives them slaves for faction points. Other factions want criminals brought to justice - hand them in for faction points.

[Radman2307]

problem in here is that most criminal elements do not have their own faction. Like rogues/robbers/raiders/highwayman/gang/bootleggers/mobsters so you would lose nothing for them.

No but the Reno families do along with the Hub Underworld, the raider faction would naturally hate you aswell, basically ANY organisation that is crime related or 'shady' would hate players who become Law Enforcement officials.

[Badger]

Also, I think it's reasonable to assume this is the general approach to law and order in the wasteland, in the words of Earl Marion, Redding Sheriff:

Thank god you put that murdering bastard Hakeswill away. We'll show him a bit of justice - and then we'll hang him. Well done.

So there's not really much of a problem of jails getting overcrowded or anything. They're happy to get as many criminals as they want, as they'll just execute them. Everyone loves a hanging.

[Lexx]

A slaver vs. ranger conflict is planned as faction scenario-esque content addon for the future.

[Lizard]

Everyone loves a hanging.

Yep, and on NMA, Continuum made a really nice render of hanged people, shouldn't that be in-game?

A moral dilemma appears: bad slavers, they let people live but enslave them and help you out with shotguns - and good rangers, they hang dem slavers and say you do a good work, but won't reward you with anything, but 100 caps and good (?) karma.

[avv]

Positive aspects to the Role

• Huge increase reputation with the various town citizens (the exception being Vault City since I doubt they would recognise the authority bestowed onto the player.)

No way. Just because someone hunts highwaymen alone and hauls them to some sheriff npc, it doesn't mean he should receive reputation. To receive reputation inside some community, one should help the players not the npcs.

Other than the reputation the idea is pretty neat, even though a bit singleplayerish.[/list]