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[Solar]

If this decends into a moan about old fast shot I will simply lock it and not bother talking about traits until after the wipe.

[Crazy]

If this decends into a moan about old fast shot I will simply lock it and not bother talking about traits until after the wipe.

No, you missed the point, I was just pointing out than One Hander had very big advantages against almost no disadvantage for fast shot pistol builds.

[Solar]

I was referring to Vedaras 

[Badger]

I think traits are better for encouraging a different and unique way of playing rather than having a beneficial tradeoff that is agreeable to your character build. That's why I find the chem traits inherently more interesting than Small Frame (snooze).

Let's say PURELY HYPOTHETICALLY that Good Natured would have no First Aid timeout and -70% to-hit penalty. Not stuff as wild as that, but something to encourage a different style of play to usual.

[Floodnik]

In my opinion, Heavy Handed would be overpowered. Once an unarmed character reaches its target, it would own.
I know the problem is reaching the target. This trait would greatly enrich unarmed versus ranged fights, but when there is unarmed vs unarmed:
1. Critical unarmed builds would have no chance, because once knocked down, it will be constantly knocked down by non-aimed fast attacks.
2. When it comes to fighting knockdowners vs knockdowners, the thing that will decide is who first hits.

Combine these knockdowns with a mega power fist(!). Harsh.

If it was a knockback, it would be less harsh but still - if attacking fast, the victim would have no chance to stand up.

About these snipers' changes:
Today the biggest advantage of snipers' is range. In a close field, big gunner almost always wins. But I guess big gunners won't have much AC, the same as now?
I really look forward to these dodger classes. That shall be interesting

[Badger]

I really look forward to these dodger classes. That shall be interesting

I would say even more interesting if they're encouraged to wear light armour.

[Ganado]

Let's say PURELY HYPOTHETICALLY that Good Natured would have no First Aid timeout and -70% to-hit penalty. Not stuff as wild as that, but something to encourage a different style of play to usual.

If something like that happens, no cooldown at all would be totally overpowered because then a person could level up their character in one encounter by being attacked by unarmed critters and continuously FAing themselves. But, say, half the cooldown, then it might be handy, with some more balancing.... or maybe only have it apply when you are using First Aid on someone else.

[Solar]

I would say even more interesting if they're encouraged to wear light armour.

 

Dodging will be interesting, but then hopefully there will be several new archetypes to try out.

[Michaelh139]

Dodging will be interesting, but then hopefully there will be several new archetypes to try out.

I forget to ask so I'll here .

AC for armor is fixed right?  Leather jacket gives More AC than a PA?

[RavenousRat]

In my opinion, Heavy Handed would be overpowered. Once an unarmed character reaches its target, it would own.
I know the problem is reaching the target. This trait would greatly enrich unarmed versus ranged fights, but when there is unarmed vs unarmed:
1. Critical unarmed builds would have no chance, because once knocked down, it will be constantly knocked down by non-aimed fast attacks.
2. When it comes to fighting knockdowners vs knockdowners, the thing that will decide is who first hits.

Combine these knockdowns with a mega power fist(!). Harsh.

If it was a knockback, it would be less harsh but still - if attacking fast, the victim would have no chance to stand up.

10 EN Stonewall = ignore trait. And of couse all patrol members and prolly caravan members will be stonewalled 10 EN bulls. So you may only impress your friend with molerats and radscorpions knockdowns! Or knockdown some thief in NCR 10 times in a row.

[KruskDaMangled]

10 EN Stonewall = ignore trait. And of couse all patrol members and prolly caravan members will be stonewalled 10 EN bulls. So you may only impress your friend with molerats and radscorpions knockdowns! Or knockdown some thief in NCR 10 times in a row.

Most patrols and caravans are rank schmucks when compared to a serious fighter type character. I doubt it would be that bad. I tend to think that Enclave and really, really tough npc's will be relatively immune, something like 60-70percent. That seems reasonable. I think "Generic Guard #12" will be 50 percent or less, and mostly depend on having a decent end. Merchants will go squish if you hit them, I think.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if nasty things like Deathclaw and Centaurs and similar mutant ilk will be tough, or impossible to knock down. I just can't see it being easy, or even reasonably possible to just wail back, and knock something the size of a small elephant on it's ass. You might be able to beat it to death, if it doesn't eat you first, but that's not the same thing.

[RavenWolf]

They all do. For example a fast shotter may never aim, compared to a normal character this is a disadvantage and it defines the character and how it will play (a trait).

well, not all. I was refering to bone head, and small frame. they dont affect much the play stile.

i Agree with Badger in the "encouraging a different and unique way of playing"

for example, Fast Metabolism: if you dont use drugs this dont have a drawback, and if you want to play wiith drugs you wont pick this. I think the drawbacks has to effect the same side that is buffing. So if instead it decrease the healed ammount by First Aid, you will gain a slow free source of healing but giving up a fast way to gain HP in a combat. and you have to use stimpacks for combat healing

One hander now its almost a must have for a gunslinger. I would prefer a trait that allow to make different gunslinger builds, like finesse, wich allow to  make a better crippler sacrificing damage.
Lets take the extra AP cost for reload weapons drawback, you will prefer to use pistols with larger clips, and take cover for realoading.
Or other drawback that when you have your rigth hand crippled you get a 60% penalty to hit. So you become more vulnerable to cripplers than other gunslingers.

[Slaver Snipe]

I want to just say thanks to the devs, it seems obvious that many things are planned for the wipe although i do hope a VERY detailed changelog will come with it. (Especially about mercs/slaves) Also i like the changes in the traits  Also, will one handed stack with living anatomy (assuming so) and does the +2 dmg from bruiser only affect unarmed? (Didn't clarify that when you clarified one hander)

[pistacja]

Will the knockdown from Heavy Handed by like a grenade/rocket knockdown (no Ap lost) or like a critical hit (-3ap)?

I like the Kamikaze, it will be perfect for a jinxed dogger I want to play... But at the same time I hate it. This should give a big damage (or crit table) bonus with a big DR/DT/AC/HP penelty. Think glass canon.

[HertogJan]

Bruiser Gives +4 Strength, -2 AP, Doubles Melee Damage from Str
Heavy Handed All Unarmed attacks cause a knockdown, +2 Final Damage, -20 on the crit table
Sex Appeal - Now a perk

Bruiser:
You said melee damage. Some already assume it's for unarmed too. Can you confirm that?

Heavy Handed:
Any info on the effect of the knockdown, like -AP and to what extend armor influences it?

Sex Appeal:
Will this actually do something in next era?