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[Surf]

Wow, a random picture of a guy carpeting his tent with stuff he will never lose.

In rpgs minmaxing is recommended.

Bullshit.

[Doctor Eex]

I AM

SO

RICH

This is what you get when you lay off "The Elder Gears of Halo V: Reach Vegas" and learn how things work in this game, stop being naïve, grab some guns and reap profits. Proof that the wasteland is absolutely not harsh.
SRSLY. Who reached success only by killing human NPC enemies, small animals, brahmins? Who got rich off from crafting on their own and shoveling shit? I want these people to prove me wrong.

lol, never see such poor bastard. 0 CA and shitty scout.
I should give 1 or 2 millions caps so you can buy actually some stuff 

[Wolffik]

What is minmaxing ? That thing you are for example minimizing luck and maximizing something other ? If so, I don't like it.

[Hololasima]

Bullshit.

Of course that its bullshit for someone who dont play this game and just dont know nothing about "variety" of different builds, where is minmaxing necessary.

[Surf]

Of course that its bullshit for someone who dont play this game and just dont know nothing about "variety" of different builds, where is minmaxing necessary.

He was talking about RPGs in general. I didn't mean FOnline where  you have to sacrifice some stats, just like you said.

[Crazy]

He was talking about RPGs in general. I didn't mean FOnline where  you have to sacrifice some stats, just like you said.

Don't tell you never minmaxed your chars in BG2 ;p  Why your barbarian would need intelligence? He just need 18/00

[Surf]

Last time I played Baldurs Gate II, I played a bard, no warrior. Don't recall any minmaxing, just put points where I thought it could help me later. Was bored to death by it however, so I don't know all the games secrets which unravel after you finished the game and get more experience playing it.

Bringing BGII as "the" example for RPGs is a fail anyway.

[JovankaB]

I think generally in RPGs where you lead a party of characters minimaxing is recommended, because every character can specialize in other task. In games like Fallout where you play only one character not necessarily (or at least it's harder). In FOnline it is recommended, because in FOnline you have a party ...of alts. But then again, FOnline isn't RPG, it's a 2D team shooter.

[Keldorn]

Last time I played Baldurs Gate II, I played a bard, no warrior. Don't recall any minmaxing, just put points where I thought it could help me later. Was bored to death by it however, so I don't know all the games secrets which unravel after you finished the game and get more experience playing it.

Bringing BGII as "the" example for RPGs is a fail anyway.

Thats because you have nothing vested in the game, the interest isn't there.  If you are competitive at all at any game that is stat dependent then you have min maxed.  Any in-depth rpg/class/stat based game is geared toward specialization of a job in order to do do the job with maximum efficiency. 

[JovankaB]

What does it mean to be competitive in a single player game anyway? Finishing a game on minimaxed characters is the easiest way to do it, how is it competitive? For teh score? It's ok, if you play it the first or second time... But when you know the mechanics, you may want to put some RP constraints on your character, to make the game more challenging. Play a vegetarian, atheist, kleptomaniac, misogynist or whatever the mechanics / story allows. If all you do with RPGs is finish it with all spells, bestest weapons and I HAVE MAXED STATS I KILL ALL MUAHAH, then you miss some point of the genre IMHO.

[Surf]

Exactly. The best times in RPGs for me are always the very first playthroughs, where you don't know what's the "best" character for certain situations etc. You take the stats and skills from a stomach feeling and not because you know stat xy grants you sucess on situation xy, which I find very boring.

Being "competive" in a singleplayer game is very objective and trivial anyway. If a game only allows ways for perfectly tailored "classes" to solve situation xy it's bad design anyway. Not everyone likes to sit infront of a calculator for days and minmaxes everything.

[Keldorn]

Ok, I get ya surf, atleast when playing handi-capped characters.  Yet having a character who can fight as well as explore all of the games quests was fun too.  The STR bonus from PA allowed me to put more points into CH and INT.  By all means I was not overpowered (well  mebbebut not the SPECIAL but more armor stats).  But it was sure fun to do different combat builds and still enjoy all of the rp aspects of the game too.  

I think we may have different definitions of "min-maxing".  Your talking more god mode while I am speaking about a properly built character.  As a mage for example, one normally focuses on things like wisdom and intelligence over qualities such as strength or perception or dexterity.  There really is no way to get perfect stats and so because of that, one places their points into things crucial to their specialization.

Its competitive when folks are doing things like speed runs and as you folks said, scores.

[Swinglinered]

Explain how 6 hour alting restriction will stop the proxy abusers?


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Balanced/non min-maxed characters need content to interact with to have "gears to push against".
(No offense to those who donate free time in labor of love.)

Otherwise players must either make up an RP rationale (jack of all trades survivalist/etc.) that probably won't last long, or work with what there is- crafting and PvP.

I'll find a way to enjoy the Wipe, I'm sure, as I'm not into collecting things I won't use, don't like standing around in NCR, and can't exactly PvP with only 1-3 people. (Especially vs a proxy horde).

I hope there will be some kind of Scavenger/Tracker profession, or things for thieves to do.
Demo skill for mining?

[Lexx]

If all you do with RPGs is finish it with all spells, bestest weapons and I HAVE MAXED STATS I KILL ALL MUAHAH, then you miss some point of the genre IMHO.

I don't think so. In fact, I see no problem if a player wants to play the game in this way. Always running around, killing everyone in every town? Becoming the master slayer of doom? Sure, do whatever brings you fun, especially if the possibilities are given. And as it is a singleplayer game, it doesn't influence me anyway... so go for it.

[Wolffik]

Explain how 6 hour alting restriction will stop the proxy abusers?

I don't have time for explaining you this, because it's a technical problem. The idea is good.