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[Keldorn]

You are not right Keldorn. People still will build 1ch pure pvp chars, with this difference that their alt will be easier to craft items for main-pvp-character. And IS matter how many arbitrary barriers we put. Now, there is less than 10 minutes between switching alts. Let's make it 6 hour. Do you think people will still use few alts ? I don't think so. And what if we make system that player can have ONLY 1 character ? Do you think people will still use specialized alts ? I don't think so

The language barrier is tough to get through but I will try to elaborate.

Why not have a seperate page for crafting ALA WoW?  Where crafting has nothing to do with SPECIAL.  That would work wonders for alt elimination (atleast crafting wise).  Same with vendor interaction.  Why not just remove the CH requirement?  This way folks can do their pvp and thier crafting at the same time.  You will never eliminate alting but you can lower it by eliminating some of the reasons for it.

[Nyarla]

i encountered a player today. when i dropped into encounter he was fıghtıng against raiders with his ripper and about 36 hp ın turn based. there were also hub patrol in the map. i started to watch. he didn't see me and kept plying. a patrol soldier killed the raider two hexes before him. the player approached the dead raider to loot him. "DON'T TAKE EM OR THE GUARDS WILL SHOOT YOU" i shouted but he didnt listen. and one of the patrol members told him to leave the stuff and he shot him right after his turn was over. he logged off while lying on the ground and he probably thought that a random asshole killed him to take his (probably high det encounter) ripper and his leather armor.

i remember getting killed and losing my everything (some caps, a few flowers, a sladgehammer and if i am lucky my high det encounter mauser and a few bullets) to 250 hp pks who has brotherhood armors and avanger miniguns. later i learned how to survive, how to avoid pks and how to fight them, but most of my friends gave up and moved on. wasteland is not harsh, it's only people.

[runboy93]

I never trusted random players at encounters.
They say you are free to go and then burst!

[Solar]

Well crafting is being reworked - hopefully that'll be a step toward evening things out. I'm not sure whether the changes will go far enough to make crafter alts a thing of the past, though.

People will still make crafter alts, you will just gain less of a competitive advantage in doing so. The requirements for gaining either level of a profession are greatly reduced. The new repair system discourages repair alts too (and promotes crafting), the new trader system will make it harder to turn crap into high level stuff.

Then on the other hand, you will still be able to arm yourself through encounters, if thats what you like - you will just have to deal with some drawbacks that crafting could overcome.

[RavenousRat]

Sorry, I was sleeping, now continue:

I would normally come up with a response addressing the issues you've raised, but I need to admire the fact that this is a cool story bro.

Can you sometimes don't use quotes or someone's speech? Try to use your personality, or else you will play someone's role whole your life. It's like if your mind doesn't even exist, you're like NPC in our world of PCs. You see an event, checking for conditions and then do an action as example that you saw/learnt from others, if you won't use human's unique ability to think creatively, then it's like you never lived.

(To not look like full offtop, need to say something about topic)

You name it, I've suggested it.

I think the only way to discourage alts is to accept them. If someone is that determined to make a crafter alt, they will no matter how many arbitrary barriers you put in his way. Instead, you encourage people to craft with their main.

The current system doesn't encourage this - you need to level up two non-combat skills to craft Small Guns, for example. If crafting certain items was tied to one non-combat skill, say Repair for Small Guns, Science for Energy Weapons, etc. your average joe would be a lot more likely to take a profession and start crafting stuff that isn't BBs and 10mm pistols. Same goes for the stat requirements - I have no idea why they're there, particularly when they can be circumvented by drugs. It just encourages alting.

May be because current game doesn't allow you to use any skills except for combat skill/fa/doc, it doesn't mean other skills are useless. I think instead of making science/repiar/gambling/(other useless skill) even more useless, it's better to add those skill in future actions. Right now game has only few quests and later whole game you're doing "pew-pew" with others, there's nothing except for clicking on pixels of enemy character with a target cursor, that's why everyone is making ugly powerbuilds who can't do anything except for pull a trigger of his gun and fix his limbs. In original fallout repair and science could help you on military bases, repair to remove force fields, science to use terminals, also science gave you more dialogues, like teaching famer in Shady Sands in fallout1, etc. This is MMO, it means that all player interactions (TC for now) should include all those skills to complete it successfuly or atleast more easy than enemy's team, especially with small fixed number of players in each team, so you won't see specialized alt - bluesuiter with 300% science who's running around and doing required stuff, because 1 less player will make your team weaker in comparison to other team, if numbers are equal and small. But I think devs know it better and already planned something for those skills. I hope.

[vedaras]

the author is not rich at all in this session standards, wasteland is harsh after all :<

[avv]

WE NEED A FREAKIN TUTORIAL ALREADY GUYS!    Seriously.  I know it takes time but this has been a long time comin.

What would you include in it?

My suggestions:
Joining bos and then stealing 5mm ammo
Preview-camping with mercs
Tent following
Base raping
Making alts for everything
Encouraging the use of autoclickers and proxies
Gridcamping previewless areas
Capturing towns in midnight

[Crazy]

People will still make crafter alts, you will just gain less of a competitive advantage in doing so. The requirements for gaining either level of a profession are greatly reduced. The new repair system discourages repair alts too (and promotes crafting), the new trader system will make it harder to turn crap into high level stuff.

Then on the other hand, you will still be able to arm yourself through encounters, if thats what you like - you will just have to deal with some drawbacks that crafting could overcome.

Argh, no, why more damn craft? Trading need skills (IRL), risks and charisma, why nerf it?

[Wolffik]

The language barrier is tough to get through but I will try to elaborate.

Why not have a seperate page for crafting ALA WoW?  Where crafting has nothing to do with SPECIAL.  That would work wonders for alt elimination (atleast crafting wise).  Same with vendor interaction.  Why not just remove the CH requirement?  This way folks can do their pvp and thier crafting at the same time.  You will never eliminate alting but you can lower it by eliminating some of the reasons for it.

Sorry, my english isn't so good.

Man, you want to kill RPG in this game. Remove CH requirement ? So you want just to delete one of the SPECIAL by making it more useless ? I think EVERY SPECIAL/skill should be useful. Like lockpick, science, barter or even speech and gambling.

[avv]

Man, you want to kill RPG in this game. Remove CH requirement ? So you want just to delete one of the SPECIAL by making it more useless ? I think EVERY SPECIAL/skill should be useful. Like lockpick, science, barter or even speech and gambling.

In rpgs minmaxing is recommended. If minmaxing is encouraged in multiplayer game, it encourages alts.

[Johnnybravo]

Sorry, my english isn't so good.

Man, you want to kill RPG in this game. Remove CH requirement ? So you want just to delete one of the SPECIAL by making it more useless ? I think EVERY SPECIAL/skill should be useful. Like lockpick, science, barter or even speech and gambling.

Charisma is talking stuff, obviously useless with decline of NPC dialoges in fonline.
Making gambling useful is just icing on cake, what would you do with that? Gamble... If they add gambling, it'd either be totally worthless because you need gambling skill for it, or it'd make gambling skill worthless, because it wouldn't matter much.

Another option is to make some secondary skills easier to increase...

[Michaelh139]

What would you include in it?

My suggestions:
Joining bos and then stealing 5mm ammo
Preview-camping with mercs
Tent following
Base raping
Making alts for everything
Encouraging the use of autoclickers and proxies
Gridcamping previewless areas
Capturing towns in midnight

Erm, no, those are strategies in pvp you learn through play. :>

I would suggest teaching them crafting,

 "BASIC" survival skills (such as raiders being bad guys and every animal going to attack you except brahmin, and gaurdslooting mechanic so they aren't shot when they get the bright idea to loot bodies when they kill and get shot, etc),
 
 how the aimshot system works,
 how bursting works,
 that mixed builds are useless,
 What skills are useless,
What skills are "useful" if at all.
A small PLAYER view on every town ingame. (Broken hillls is anarchist brutal place where death is everywhere, you smell it walking in, and smell like it walking out.)
Town Previewing.

It's not that difficult, and I could probably name more.

[Solar]

Argh, no, why more damn craft? Trading need skills (IRL), risks and charisma, why nerf it?

Farming loads of low tech encounters and using that to trade for hi-tech stuff doesn't require much at all. Nothing forces you to craft more, as I said, you will still be able to survive purely by killing encounters (and trading that stuff if you want to).

In original fallout repair and science could help you on military bases, repair to remove force fields, science to use terminals, also science gave you more dialogues, like teaching famer in Shady Sands in fallout1, etc. This is MMO, it means that all player interactions (TC for now) should include all those skills to complete it successfuly or atleast more easy than enemy's team, especially with small fixed number of players in each team, so you won't see specialized alt - bluesuiter with 300% science who's running around and doing required stuff, because 1 less player will make your team weaker in comparison to other team, if numbers are equal and small. But I think devs know it better and already planned something for those skills. I hope.

Yes, this is Domination Mode. Small teams, lots of "map features" which can be exploited by players who have certain skills

In rpgs minmaxing is recommended. If minmaxing is encouraged in multiplayer game, it encourages alts.

This is true. Hopefully you will notice a move away from favouring min maxing on the wipe. It feels like we are pretty much remaking every fundamental system in the game at the moment

[Badger]

This is true. Hopefully you will notice a move away from favouring min maxing on the wipe. It feels like we are pretty much remaking every fundamental system in the game at the moment

Interested to see how it turns out.

[cannotspace]

awww he found his first gauss

look at him all proud and stuff

On the other hand if he's bragging about the rest of stuff on ground:

HAHA you're so naive thinking other's don't already have the double or triple