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[Raegann]

No routes between cities are actually safe , we speak of areas where grinding is very lucrative (groups fight vs groups and you can just sit back and finish them one by one when they fight each other ..) in those spots you will find groups led by high charisma + outdoors players that look for "player encoutners"

Why should some lowbie be protected when grinding some very lucrative areas? You just have to choose some other place, if you only go around NCR, you can tell for sure you will meet some player in no time. Just don't do that. There is plenty of areas, where you would never expect a lucrative spawns, but well, they're there and almost nobody grinding them, because it is no predictable. You just have to explore and not do everything in predictable way as everyone else. PKs bank on players being predictable and going to predictable areas. There is no reason one should have reward for being predictable and average player.

heh none will protect you for free - this or other way they will want something in return and actually when being jumped by 2-4 players you more likely need a whole group to help you lol ...

Then get into some faction, find some friends. Guess what - they will protect you for free.

And as for supporing lowbie hunting - for some time now mmos got noob protection as high priority , it feels like at beggining of mmos where just newly made cahracter could be chopped for the little cash he menaged to farm or simply for the fun of it - they died quite fast even through being free...

It depends on the type of mmo. I personally have played mmos which had no noob protection at all. You know, if the game system gonna protect you for some time, you will just find later, how hard it is to make living. I think it is better to get all the ass-kicks soon, you will learn and eventually become experienced player with some playing skills. Protecting newbies/ lowbies by system is just the bear service. Just get a tent at first few levels, then you can farm stuff and never leave with anything you can't lack. There is no point in collecting stuff, if you haven't tent. Actually I did few characters lvl 3/4 with bare hands and by the time I had those 10 skins+some cash in bank. Never cried about losing low end equipment, even if it was my last one.
It's just pointless.. as long as PKs are a normal part of game, they have the same right to grind noobs as noobs have right to grind lucrative spawns, waiting till the two groups of NPCs kill themselves and then only loot stuff without any effort. Thanks god there is any risk besides predictable AI.

its fail thinking
1) there is real lack of good exp spots - the ratio is around 1:10 (good spot : others ) and with the exp drop with higher levels i can only guess how the ratio will grow above 15 lv ..
2) lucartive spots arnt that lucrative when you need to share with others ..
3) the chat options are rather limited here so making group is another hassle


and finally this is blind wheel - when one needs to level while being constantly killed and forced to the boring craft over and over by the time he is "strong" he hates everyone so much that he goes PKing lowbies himself ...

1) highly depends on area. You know, on lvl 15 you should already know places where are +- 1k xp critters. Also by lvl 15 you should learn more ways to gain xp.
2) it's easy - go alone and find something less dangerous (and less lucrative) or go in group and share.. if you are lowbie, there is no reason why you should grind the most lucrative critters alone. omg you really shouldn't be semi-good on lvl 5 grinding centaurs and enclave with bare hands - what would you do on lvl 21? Multi-kill on sight with eyes?

the last sentence is only by personal (moral :p) preferences.. you can as well hate pkers and help lowbies

[Archvile]

its fail thinking
1) there is real lack of good exp spots - the ratio is around 1:10 (good spot : others ) and with the exp drop with higher levels i can only guess how the ratio will grow above 15 lv ..
2) lucartive spots arnt that lucrative when you need to share with others ..
3) the chat options are rather limited here so making group is another hassle

1) comfy, aren't we?
2) comfy, aren't we?
3) comfy, aren't we?

and finally this is blind wheel - when one needs to level while being constantly killed and forced to the boring craft over and over by the time he is "strong" he hates everyone so much that he goes PKing lowbies himself ...

Bullshit.

[Attero]

no i dont say lowbie needs to be protected while grinding lucrative spots but supporting hunters by giving them players name in encoutner window is just bad . You could still hunt the lucrative spots and when seeing encounter they could still jump in and see if there is some player fighting but hten they would also risk that rather then finding solo player they can find a group of players ...

but lucrative spots - like i said the ratio is sick - i will mention numbersi f you desire ..in lucrative spot i can get over 5k exp from encounter in others having 500 is being "lucky"

1:10 is insane ratio - most games introduce something called risk : reward but the ratio is 1:2 ; 1:3 (comparing risky spot to safe ) at most not 1:10 and more ..



no faction is not free ; and finding high lv firends is rather hard ó

 
hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...


3/4 lv ? wtf is that thats not what im speaking about 3/4 you can hit with your hands tied ... problems start at 8lv where you need to carry some valuable gear to be able to kill anything woth decent exp and now you get lowbie hutners on your ass...



@ Archvile - lacking argument arnt we?

[Raegann]

no i dont say lowbie needs to be protected while grinding lucrative spots but supporting hunters by giving them players name in encoutner window is just bad . You could still hunt the lucrative spots and when seeing encounter they could still jump in and see if there is some player fighting but hten they would also risk that rather then finding solo player they can find a group of players ...

Every coin has two sides. It will be then pointless for lowbie to invest in outdoors (which can be quite high on lvl 8 ) to prevent jumping into group of PKers. You know - PKs will just get used to it and deploy in the lucrative area and instead of traveling, they will be just waiting for noobs in the position - you will have no chance to prevent the encounter with them and ooops - there is another suggestion how being no able to prevent this is supporting lowbie hunters. You just have to adapt. You can minimize the risk if the first thing you do in the encounter with NPCs is going near the grid so you can leave in one turn (I tried personally and it really saves life).

1:10 is insane ratio - most games introduce something called risk : reward but the ratio is 1:2 ; 1:3 (comparing risky spot to safe ) at most not 1:10 and more ..

Your 1:10 ratio is simply not based on any facts, maybe just on your gameplay experience, which is spoiled if you are failing almost all the time (I guess this is the reason you wrote this suggestion). I have chars with level about 8-12 and I have very different numbers. In fact I'm able to bring many guns back to my place and just fail in about 1/5 of attempts.

no faction is not free ; and finding high lv firends is rather hard ó

I did find faction on lvl +- 9 just for having a conversation with a single person. It cost me nothing and I even received some stuff. Since then it was only better. You just need some luck and have to try. I even didn't need forum or IRC to find a faction, so it is in fact quite easy (as subjective feeling as yours).

hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...

Well, there are.

3/4 lv ? wtf is that thats not what im speaking about 3/4 you can hit with your hands tied ... problems start at 8lv where you need to carry some valuable gear to be able to kill anything woth decent exp and now you get lowbie hutners on your ass...

If it was so easy for you, being on lvl 8 you just should be well prepared. If you aren't someone may as well say, that the game is actually very easy for starters and therefor they learn nothing in the process of xping.

[Lexx]

hard to belive there is good mmo out there with no noob protection ... the last one i would say was AoC - it was quite harsh game at start but they added the protection eventually ... well the game died before they did but its how it ends ...

Yeh, yeh. Since august 2009 people tell us that the game will be dead in few weeks. Still, amount of playing users didn't lowered.

[Attero]

Every coin has two sides. It will be then pointless for lowbie to invest in outdoors (which can be quite high on lvl 8 ) to prevent jumping into group of PKers. You know - PKs will just get used to it and deploy in the lucrative area and instead of traveling, they will be just waiting for noobs in the position - you will have no chance to prevent the encounter with them and ooops - there is another suggestion how being no able to prevent this is supporting lowbie hunters. You just have to adapt. You can minimize the risk if the first thing you do in the encounter with NPCs is going near the grid so you can leave in one turn (I tried personally and it really saves life).

the problem is not with running into pk'ers but being runned into . They can be only in one spot so chances drop terribly compared when they are swooping the desert with taxi ...

Your 1:10 ratio is simply not based on any facts, maybe just on your gameplay experience, which is spoiled if you are failing almost all the time (I guess this is the reason you wrote this suggestion). I have chars with level about 8-12 and I have very different numbers. In fact I'm able to bring many guns back to my place and just fail in about 1/5 of attempts

So you probably never runned into lucrative spot :] and so also you probably didnt got found by swoopers either ... 2 points of vierw hmm ?
but the numbers i mentioned are real , centaur / floater is worth 650 exp  , humanoid with SG 80-120 , mutated sizzles less then 30-60...

I did find faction on lvl +- 9 just for having a conversation with a single person. It cost me nothing and I even received some stuff. Since then it was only better. You just need some luck and have to try. I even didn't need forum or IRC to find a faction, so it is in fact quite easy (as subjective feeling as yours).

Joining faction doesnt cost you directly (unless they would ask cash lol). But it does in longer run - basicly said : you can either join faction that will want you or you can join faction that you will want - differance is power.

Well, there are. Smiley

Name one ? make sure its well known...

If it was so easy for you, being on lvl 8 you just should be well prepared. If you aren't someone may as well say, that the game is actually very easy for starters and therefor they learn nothing in the process of xping.

maybe , but the thing is that at 1-2 lv (dont remember) stupid scorpion is worth 120 exp at lv 6 and above its maybe worth 20 maybe ..

there is lack in progression with creeps - or i beein at least unluckly not to find critters with ~200 for lv 8 ;]

@ Lexx - it depands on point of view ... i played quite a few mmos and left them and i considered them dead when they still had 100k subs ... 300 people its not on scale  ^^ i just mentionedd how bad things happened to games that were harsh to new players . Fonline is mostly different case - we played Fallouts old days and now we enjoy fact that we can play again in same universe... however i woudlnt see why the game shouldt have 10k players when it will be ready..

[STONEBALLS]

all i can say here is

THE WASTELAND IS HURSH

(those caps are so much looking cool here, like a voice of the wasteland itself)

come on man itsa postnuclear world, wild and dangerous.   if u want to be safe then go play smthng else)

no offence man but u will be killed by PKs again and again

[Attero]

all i can say here is

THE WASTELAND IS HURSH

(those caps are so much looking cool here, like a voice of the wasteland itself)

come on man itsa postnuclear world, wild and dangerous.   if u want to be safe then go play smthng else)

no offence man but u will be killed by PKs again and again

if it would be as harsh as you say none would clone you for free ;]

PK ... heh in mmo its called PvP but i start to wonder if in fonline it can be called that .... havnt heard PK naming since mud days ...eitherway i love pvp not sure how i feel about PK

[Badger]

Yeh, yeh. Since august 2009 people tell us that the game will be dead in few weeks. Still, amount of playing users didn't lowered.

But has it grown? That isn't a rhetorical question, I'd like to know if the MODDB publicity has actually helped expand the playerbase.

[STONEBALLS]

some offtop about the playerbase:

well i thinks it is growing.   i know many people who jioned recently and i think that devs should be quite happy with so many testers.     

[Raegann]

the problem is not with running into pk'ers but being runned into . They can be only in one spot so chances drop terribly compared when they are swooping the desert with taxi ...

Oh man, it quite doesn't matter if it is you swooping the desert and running into pk group or if it is pk group swooping desert running into you.

So you probably never runned into lucrative spot :] and so also you probably didnt got found by swoopers either ... 2 points of vierw hmm ?

Yes, two points of view. Anyway I'm able to get on lvl +- 10 items like LSWs, FN FALs, Laser Rifles and so on on solo, so I don't think I can't find a lucrative spot (still without not being pked every time). Being not found-killed by swoopers often is about finding lucrative and not well known places, about player's skills.

but the numbers i mentioned are real , centaur / floater is worth 650 exp  , humanoid with SG 80-120 , mutated sizzles less then 30-60...

Oh, if you want you can very easily kill just centaurs/ floaters. There are areas, where there is almost nothing else. As well if fed up with centaurs, you can go to areas where are almost only humanoids with loot. It's just about what you want and if able to achieve it.

Joining faction doesnt cost you directly (unless they would ask cash lol). But it does in longer run - basicly said : you can either join faction that will want you or you can join faction that you will want - differance is power.

I think joining faction is well worth the cost, if any. Also what you write is only a theory, practically you can join a faction that will want you and which you want to join at the same time - it's not either.. or (I guess it would be nonsense to join faction you don't want to and especially it would be nonsense if some faction which doesn't want you as a member will let you join ).

Name one ? make sure its well known...

Almost all shards of Ultima Online in my country (+- 300 players in rush hours for the biggest one.. which is quite good for local character and such archaic game).

maybe , but the thing is that at 1-2 lv (dont remember) stupid scorpion is worth 120 exp at lv 6 and above its maybe worth 20 maybe ..

This is on another discussion. I would personally like if the lower xp for crit. issue develops faster in time to the previous values (like if you didn't kill a scorp for 24 real hours it should raise again a little).

there is lack in progression with creeps - or i beein at least unluckly not to find critters with ~200 for lv 8 ;]

Well, you are. 150-250 xp may be some: ghouls, mobsters, immature deathclaws, "strong" slavers, bootleggers, marauders, NCR Rangers/ Caravan guards maybe also, Fire Geckos.. not sure about all of it but almost all of these can be met on regular basis.. you may as well search the wiki with "xp=whatever" to find values by yourself.

however i woudlnt see why the game shouldt have 10k players when it will be ready..

Because the competition is so high and free games can never be compared to payed monthly. However I think that FOnline does great job and actually is better than many games which are paid for. I think that free games would even have troubles supporting problem free entertainment for thousands of people (for sure expect some text games etc.), in the mean of hardware and in the mean of GM team.

[Attero]

Oh man, it quite doesn't matter if it is you swooping the desert and running into pk group or if it is pk group swooping desert running into you. Smiley

it does , i never runned into them its alwayes other way around...

Yes, two points of view. Anyway I'm able to get on lvl +- 10 items like LSWs, FN FALs, Laser Rifles and so on on solo, so I don't think I can't find a lucrative spot (still without not being pked every time). Being not found-killed by swoopers often is about finding lucrative and not well known places, about player's skills.

Well, you are. 150-250 xp may be some: ghouls, mobsters, immature deathclaws, "strong" slavers, bootleggers, marauders, NCR Rangers/ Caravan guards maybe also, Fire Geckos.. not sure about all of it but almost all of these can be met on regular basis.. you may as well search the wiki with "xp=whatever" to find values by yourself.

i expecially said critters - humanoids are good if they hit soemthign else i wouldnt survive group shooting FN fals / LSW for more then one round .. and if you run into critters "unocupied" you can alwayes run away , for humanoids they will shoot your ass at least huritng you severaly ( had once first shot crit - knockout /gg)
small deathclaws would be ok but they exist in caves only i think (only once saw one outside) and TB in cave = 5 min rounds ...
Rangers = huh ? i wanan be firendly with them .....

Almost all shards of Ultima Online in my country (+- 300 players in rush hours for the biggest one.. which is quite good for local character and such archaic game).

gah Ultima .. something else please ;p ultima is beyond my understanding how one can play it (same as tibia and other shit with that level of gfx)

I think joining faction is well worth the cost, if any. Also what you write is only a theory, practically you can join a faction that will want you and which you want to join at the same time - it's not either.. or (I guess it would be nonsense to join faction you don't want to and especially it would be nonsense if some faction which doesn't want you as a member will let you join Cheesy).

You didnt understand me - not at all ... and i will not elaborate, anyone with extensive guild expirience  should know what i mean..

[Raegann]

it does , i never runned into them its alwayes other way around...

Well, this has no objective value. I personally did run into them and also our group had many times strangers running into us. And you will run into them more often, if the Outdoorsman gets your "fix".

i expecially said critters - humanoids are good if they hit soemthign else i wouldnt survive group shooting FN fals / LSW for more then one round .. and if you run into critters "unocupied" you can alwayes run away , for humanoids they will shoot your ass at least huritng you severally ( had once first shot crit - knockout /gg)

But some from the list have such short range or uses only mellee. I don't see a point here. Someone is able to kill them on lvl 8 and someone isn't, but that's a problem of your build probably (aren't you mellee/ unarmed?). Also with LSWs I often see those dumb NPCs shooting their comrades instead of me, which actually really helps.

small deahclaws wouuld be ok but htey exist in caves onlyi think (only once saw one outside) and TB in cave = 5 min rounds ...

I think in caves you're likely to meet a mature deathclaw. I know this about TB, you have either wait for fix, use RT, get used to it or don't go inside.

gah Ultima .. something else please ;p ultima is beyond my understanding how one can play it (same as tibia and other shit with that level of gfx)

You talk like FOnline (don't forget Ultima may be heavily modded too) is way more better, pal.   You know, some people just have other requirements for entertainment. You said one, here it is. And it has comparable number of players to other free games.

You didnt understand me - not at all ... and i will not elaborate, anyone with extensive guild expirience  should know what i mean..

Man, anyone with extensive guild experience is probably going to have a faction till lvl 8 as I did (both pre-wipe and after-wipe for me). And I'm totally satisfied and believe my faction too (actually they often make me lead a party - and not because of CH stat). It's not me saying how everything is screwed, how I'm unsatisfied and failing and looking for self-justification and why everything is impossible, so I guess any problem is just very subjective on this matter.
I mean you won't probably make it to the top PvP faction on lvl 8 being taken for town raids or town control events, but everything comes with time. I also had no problem changing faction to fit me better, when I felt like it (and being still welcome in my previous faction bases) and also was able to pay 1/3 of caps needed for the biggest base by the time.

[Lexx]

I'd like to know if the MODDB publicity has actually helped expand the playerbase.

Not much, as far as I can see. It's true that we now have 350 players again at high times. But before it was 200 to 250... so it's actually not that much. Or let's say... ingame you don't really feel the new people.

[Attero]

Well, this has no objective value. I personally did run into them and also our group had many times strangers running into us. And you will run into them more often, if the Outdoorsman gets your "fix".

my 10 outdoor doesnt feel endangered by such change ><

But some from the list have such short range or uses only mellee. I don't see a point here. Someone is able to kill them on lvl 8 and someone isn't, but that's a problem of your build probably (aren't you mellee/ unarmed?). Also with LSWs I often see those dumb NPCs shooting their comrades instead of me, which actually really helps.

Yea the bugged ones or when the fight vs others - but part that like i said humanoids are pain coz a hunting rifle goul shots your as for 20-30 per one at huuge range ... well sometimes even desert eagle ones push over 20 per hit .. and at 8 you have around 70 - not much beatign you can stand ... not melee then i dying wouldnt cost me too much ;p

You talk like FOnline (don't forget Ultima may be heavily modded too) is way more better, pal.  Roll Eyes You know, some people just have other requirements for entertainment. You said one, here it is. Smiley And it has comparable number of players to other free games.

No its like saying that in hell it looks same as in heaven but its hotter >< Yes Fonline doesnt use candy gfx but on this part you are probably right if i wouldnt play Fallout those over 10y ago then i wouldnt be interested in fonline now. Basicly after plaing p2p mmo free ones doesnt cut it (fonline is special shush)... now i wonder if interplay will make Fmmo...

Man, anyone with extensive guild experience is probably going to have a faction till lvl 8 as I did (both pre-wipe and after-wipe for me). And I'm totally satisfied and believe my faction too (actually they often make me lead a party - and not because of CH stat). It's not me saying how everything is screwed, how I'm unsatisfied and failing and looking for self-justification and why everything is impossible, so I guess any problem is just very subjective on this matter.
I mean you won't probably make it to the top PvP faction on lvl 8 being taken for town raids or town control events, but everything comes with time. I also had no problem changing faction to fit me better, when I felt like it (and being still welcome in my previous faction bases) and also was able to pay 1/3 of caps needed for the biggest base by the time.

huh ? i just suggested removal of PC names form encounter window to reduce the amount of unwanted open pvp , and you claim how i'm failing looool - going same way of thinking i could say you try to justify farming lowbies as valid way of getting cash ... lol
As for factions - i dont like to owe anyone , i dont jump guilds sorry and hate people that do. ofc i could join some faction , was even offered , but i dont wanna , i wouldnt be able to stand lowbie hunting from high lv members and say its fine coz it doesnt happened to me.

Its about how matured player you are, either you like killing others for sake of it regardless if they are able to stand any chance or you want to win in fair fight where enemy is prepared and willing to fight