Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Raegann]

huh ? i just suggested removal of PC names form encounter window to reduce the amount of unwanted open pvp , and you claim how i'm failing looool - going same way of thinking i could say you try to justify farming lowbies as valid way of getting cash ... lol
As for factions - i dont like to owe anyone , i dont jump guilds sorry and hate people that do. ofc i could join some faction , was even offered , but i dont wanna , i wouldnt be able to stand lowbie hunting from high lv members and say its fine coz it doesnt happened to me.

Its about how matured player you are, either you like killing others for sake of it regardless if they are able to stand any chance or you want to win in fair fight where enemy is prepared and willing to fight

You know, since there is pvp allowed, farming of anyone is simply a valid way of getting cash. It may not be fair or moral, but it is totally a valid way. We may not agree with it, but pvp is normal way of getting cash and things. Also pvp is player vs player, not "experienced player vs experienced player". It really doesn't matter if your oponent is lvl 1 or 21, anyway it is just a valid way of income.
Also not every faction hunts newbies, actually there is some that even help them (personally I did help someone few times, but it's only my personal choice, which is in the means of game principles same as killing them instead).

I just won't judge anyone because how he decided to play. This is not mature approach. It's just a game and you know, he may be killing lowbies but still be a perfect person in real life. My game style may be totally different and even one character of mine may behave in oposite way than other, still I don't think it does say anything about how mature anybody is.

[Attero]

You know, since there is pvp allowed, farming of anyone is simply a valid way of getting cash. It may not be fair or moral, but it is totally a valid way. We may not agree with it, but pvp is normal way of getting cash and things. Also pvp is player vs player, not "experienced player vs experienced player". It really doesn't matter if your oponent is lvl 1 or 21, anyway it is just a valid way of income.
Also not every faction hunts newbies, actually there is some that even help them (personally I did help someone few times, but it's only my personal choice, which is in the means of game principles same as killing them instead).

I just won't judge anyone because how he decided to play. This is not mature approach. It's just a game and you know, he may be killing lowbies but still be a perfect person in real life. My game style may be totally different and even one character of mine may behave in oposite way than other, still I don't think it does say anything about how mature anybody is.

yet its within developer power to limit how the pvp should look like. I remember in some cases you simply werent able to attack someone if there was level differance more then of two levels...
one need to remember that what for someone is a hour of farming and crafting for other can be few mins of killing some npc ...

I used "matured player" on purpose dont mix RL in this , it has nothing to do with age or whatsever . I dont say that someone farming lowbies cant help them out - but evil cant be covered by good ones unless one would actually help the person he killed - its same way that donating to church doesnt clear the fact that you stole money ealier...
I judge people by their actions , you may not - your choice.

[Raegann]

yet its within developer power to limit how the pvp should look like. I remember in some cases you simply werent able to attack someone if there was level differance more then of two levels...
one need to remember that what for someone is a hour of farming and crafting for other can be few mins of killing some npc ...

But why should anybody limit pvp here? Just because killing lowbies is not moral and they have to work harder? Also if I have pure crafter (doctor let's say without gun skills) on lvl 21, I'm as weak or even more than small guns lowbie on lvl 5. Should I be protected then, because I'm defenceless? I was killed now and then on low levels, with few characters, didn't have faction base etc. by the time, I know what it is like. But I never felt like "the bad bad PKs ruined my life again, I'm so miserable".

I used "matured player" on purpose dont mix RL in this , it has nothing to do with age or whatsever . I dont say that someone farming lowbies cant help them out - but evil cant be covered by good ones unless one would actually help the person he killed - its same way that donating to church doesnt clear the fact that you stole money ealier...
I judge people by their actions , you may not - your choice.

What I'm trying to say is, that I may differ evil and good, but I'm saying, that evil has the same right to live like good here. This is no chivalry mod, thinking about if the killing of lowbies is right or bad is just irrelevant. I'm even sure, that PKers just gonna try to kill you regardless of your lvl. You are just sometimes on the wrong place in the wrong time, no need to take it personal or think about moral. Just try to learn asap. Perhaps these lowbies are gonna just find better places, where they are not hunted so much (and there are plenty of such places).

[Attero]

But why should anybody limit pvp here? Just because killing lowbies is not moral and they have to work harder? Also if I have pure crafter (doctor let's say without gun skills) on lvl 21, I'm as weak or even more than small guns lowbie on lvl 5. Should I be protected then, because I'm defenceless? I was killed now and then on low levels, with few characters, didn't have faction base etc. by the time, I know what it is like. But I never felt like "the bad bad PKs ruined my life again, I'm so miserable"

yet again you put words into my mouth - i never said anything about hard protection , i just dont see a reason to support hunting. I suggested something that would help noobs / lowbies alot and would open the game for non so hardcore players.
And at 21 your doctor can have 180+hp depanding on how much endurance you have (140 is somewhat min) while 5 lv can have at most 60 hp ... no comparing ... + your doctor is doctor you dont play him to fight but to craft and maybe heal your blind gang friends  - your example makes no sense.

What I'm trying to say is, that I may differ evil and good, but I'm saying, that evil has the same right to live like good here. Smiley This is no chivalry mod, thinking about if the killing of lowbies is right or bad is just irrelevant. I'm even sure, that PKers just gonna try to kill you regardless of your lvl. You are just sometimes on the wrong place in the wrong time, no need to take it personal or think about moral. Just try to learn asap. Perhaps these lowbies are gonna just find better places, where they are not hunted so much (and there are plenty of such places).

ofc you cant protect players from everything - even in the best mmos there are scammers , ninja looters , KS'ers etc . Game is a game but you cant escape from morality.


EDIT : i will give you exaple equivalent ot the "support hunting" i tal about . This game doesnt support killing in guarded cities like NCR , not only NPCs attack you but also you lose karma and items get looted. Now imagine that you wont lose karma and NPCs wont loot your corpse , then all you would need is someone to take your stuff after NPCs killed you , and you could go and kill players in NCR without any real penalty. That city would still be guarded and "safe" but i would say the city hunting is supported.

[Raegann]

yet again you put words into my mouth - i never said anything about hard protection , i just dont see a reason to support hunting. I suggested something that would help noobs / lowbies alot and would open the game for non so hardcore players.

I think it will only change the tactics of PKs, as I said before. They can as well use the new settings to their profit, camping a place waiting for lowbies (who won't have any chance to prevent, cause Outdoorsman would be "nerfed" - and it really doesn't matter that your char has only 10 Outdoors, there are some who invest points in it early and gain from it - especially around places like NCR you can prevent hopping into players even with quite low skill). This suggestion isn't supporting lowbies, it will have much broader impact.
Also the example is fully valid - your lvl 5 may not have 180+ hp, but it may have some BG skill f.e., which can help you to defense actively (shooting them a rocket may save you for a turn, as they are wasting their AP to stand up.. in which the Doctor 21 could be dead as well). If you meet a group of three f.e., they may kill you regardless of you having 60 or 180 hp.

ofc you cant protect players from everything - even in the best mmos there are scammers , ninja looters , KS'ers etc . Game is a game but you cant escape from morality.

There is no reason to escape from morality, cause it "is only about feelings" (simplification, no philosophy) - and definitely everybody has right for it. I just think, that morality shouldn't determine changes in this game at all. Let it just determine how you feel about certain actions, as it is the main purpose.

EDIT : i will give you exaple equivalent ot the "support hunting" i tal about . This game doesnt support killing in guarded cities like NCR , not only NPCs attack you but also you lose karma and items get looted. Now imagine that you wont lose karma and NPCs wont loot your corpse , then all you would need is someone to take your stuff after NPCs killed you , and you could go and kill players in NCR without any real penalty. That city would still be guarded and "safe" but i would say the city hunting is supported.

This only mean, that there are currently safe and not safe locations. In fact Outdoorsman functions are supporting both hunters and victims. You can really gain from it as a lowbie, many did. If you want just try it by yourself to see how this Outdoorsman feature is totally useful for both sides. Form a group, deploy on the place adjacent to NCR and just wait. My personal experience is, that in a few minutes you will have someone hop into you, either by failing Outdoors check or with intention to kick-ass your group and also you will certainly have people, who will avoid the encounter with Outdoors setting as it is now (I know - you won't see them avoiding, but there really would be plenty of them). Just make sure, that your suggestion really has two sides, without doubt.

[Attero]

I think it will only change the tactics of PKs, as I said before. They can as well use the new settings to their profit, camping a place waiting for lowbies (who won't have any chance to prevent, cause Outdoorsman would be "nerfed" - and it really doesn't matter that your char has only 10 Outdoors, there are some who invest points in it early and gain from it - especially around places like NCR you can prevent hopping into players even with quite low skill). This suggestion isn't supporting lowbies, it will have much broader impact.

most lowbies dont take outdoorsman - tehy go for their crafting skills as tagged. Also this si quite simple ... there are 20 squares of hunting zone , they can only occupy one square and actually only 1/4th of that square will trigger the enocunter . so if you lets say pick one square and only travel within it to hunt for encoutner you have less then 5% to get one with a trap. However when they go for hunting they have 20squares to check - how long it takes to check all of them with 240 outdoor and pathfinding ? maybe even car... (no idea how cars work yet). I would say if you fight in TB and the fight takes 10mins they wil lfind you no matter what ...

There is no reason to escape from morality, cause it "is only about feelings" (simplification, no philosophy) - and definitely everybody has right for it. I just think, that morality shouldn't determine changes in this game at all. Let it just determine how you feel about certain actions, as it is the main purpose.

I think it is. Devs say whats wrong and whats right . if they decide they can make anyone suicide bombing never able to log on that toon again and even suspend the IP temporary. But atm its jsut beta none cares. Yet its jsut suggestion i made , maybe they will listen maybe not - up to them realy ;]

[Raegann]

most lowbies dont take outdoorsman - tehy go for their crafting skills as tagged

Either this is not truth (cannot be proven anyway) or it is a mistake of player. Anyway why should anybody investing into craft skills and grinding lucrative spots (=fighting) have any support in doing so? I did invest into outdoors very soon for a few characters, at least for those, who are going to travel/ explore. It simply pays off. Just invest into craft skills only and have no advantage in fighting/ avoiding fight or invest into fight/ outdoors skill and feel the difference (= many players detected around NCR giving you the opportunity to evade). Anyway Outdoorsman is actually very good skill for craft, even if you gonna make it "only" to 80.

I think it is. Devs say whats wrong and whats right . if they decide they can make anyone suicide bombing never able to log on that toon again and even suspend the IP temporary. But atm its jsut beta none cares. Yet its jsut suggestion i made , maybe they will listen maybe not - up to them realy ;]

They do, but I believe they are doing it more because of game balance and game system, not because of morality.
Definitely, it's up to them. Just don't expect, that this could fix it, even if accepted, cause if you wouldn't hop into pk group myself, some other lowbie would (analogy to what you said, if they gonna wait here 10+ minutes, they will have some frags sooner or later).