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[Deagonx]

You may or may not have been a victim of theft, where someone will pickpocket items and cash right from your inventory. Especially when you are trying to trade, when you are trading you will not see the character animation grabbing your items. Only the dissapearance of them from the trade menu, and even then it is difficult to get out without losing more items.

Here is my proposal.

When looking in your inventory, and when trading, you cannot be stolen from. Why? Its simple, if you are doing those things wouldn't you be paying a very large amount of attention to your items? If I was looking through my items and I saw a hand reach out and grab one it would be pretty easy to realize there was theft going on.

Regards, Deagonx.

[TheGreenHand]

"I've been stolen from, so nerf stealing."  It's a common argument.
You have to posistion your guy so you can see him when trading.  Be on the left side of your screen and drag your barter window to the right side.  Or whatever works for you.
Also, you can download semi-transparent interface mods, so you can see through them.
The only thing that is extra when you're trading and avoiding thieves is you have to press ESC before running away.
Getting rid of pressing ESC and making so you can just click somewhere and your dude would move would be ok.
But stealing has been nerfed enough as it is.

[Deagonx]

Well, that wasn't particularly the argument I was making.
I mean, realistically, if you are trading with a shopkeep to sell some stuff, you will be paying more attention to your items.
Its not 'nerfing' it, its just improving on the abusable system.

I just don't like the idea that PKing and theft are the only way to drag yourself from the bottom of the food chain

[Badger]

The problem with stealing is the risk vs. the reward. Levelling up a stealing alt is a pain in the ass, but once you have, you run around as a bluesuit and have nothing to lose.

My solution:

Thieves can only see items of similar or less value to their own inventories on their victims.

For example, if a thief is carrying nothing, he can't see anything on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $250 worth of gear/money on him, he can see items worth $250 and below on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $1000 worth of gear/money, he can see items worth $1000 and below. Etc.

A system where you can get items for free from other players without risking anything yourself makes no sense. So, there should be something for the victim to gain as well as the thief to lose. Ideally if the thief dies, his gear would automatically go to the victim. But that would require some kind of guard based magic.


But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.

[Deagonx]

Furthermore, if caught stealing from another player. I think guards should attack you.

[Michaelh139]

The problem with stealing is the risk vs. the reward. Levelling up a stealing alt is a pain in the ass, but once you have, you run around as a bluesuit and have nothing to lose.

My solution:

Thieves can only see items of similar or less value to their own inventories on their victims.

For example, if a thief is carrying nothing, he can't see anything on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $250 worth of gear/money on him, he can see items worth $250 and below on his victim.
If the thief is carrying $1000 worth of gear/money, he can see items worth $1000 and below. Etc.

A system where you can get items for free from other players without risking anything yourself makes no sense. So, there should be something for the victim to gain as well as the thief to lose. Ideally if the thief dies, his gear would automatically go to the victim. But that would require some kind of guard based magic.


But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.

Although it doesn't really make sense, this is a good balancing solution in the end.  Although, you shouldn't have to have EXACTLY or above the amount worth in inventory to steal.  Maybe something like 50% of its worth.

[Deagonx]

If aiming for realism, that doesn't really work. And even so, you can just start off with 200 Caps, steal 100 of his, then steal 150... etc. etc.
I mean really, with a good enough steal skill you can take anyones items. Then just deposit in the nearest bank and keep going.

[TheGreenHand]

But I really think PvP stealing should be disabled. I don't see how it improves the game at all.

Try rolling a thief sometime.  Honestly, this is Fallout.  Every fallout game has stealing.  It's part of what makes it great.  You can do what you want in it.
We can't have all powerbuild combat character.  We need some doctors, thieves, crafters, etc.

Furthermore, if caught stealing from another player. I think guards should attack you.

The guards tell you that they saw the thief, so you can take matters into your own hands.  They have more to worry about than petty theft.  Besides, is theft a capital offense?  What if people were executed for stealing?  That's crazy.  It's not possible to put a fine system into effect, but if caught your rep does lower.  The patrols around the city will shoot you if you're -300 or worse.

[Deagonx]

Yes, then when you attack the thief, they attack you for violence. It happens, I've tried it.

This is fallout, life is tough I think everyone understands that, but it is a real drain on the game when people can steal from you with no consequence, and if you retaliate in a town you lose ALL your stuff. Its just cheap.

[HertogJan]

You can shoot unprotected thieves.
Which means either guards noticed them stealing and said something like 'player name it seems like thief name is interested in your possessions' or you get a red line in your log that someone failed stealing.
Than, and only than, you can shoot a thief. If you're a burster, be careful not to hit anyone else or guards will shoot you.

As TheGreenHand said:
Thief accounts have their downsides too.
A pure thief build is hard to level and encounters are a huge risk if your rep is below -300.

Also as a (known) thief you'll know you'll get shot on sight any player encounter and unguarded towns.
You also risk to get shot in unguarded towns when still being protected simply because someone either doesn't care or hopes you're unprotected.

[Deagonx]

Alright, this is derailing into work arounds.


As stated, player to player stealing is just a bad idea in general. The entire prospect of it just hurts players, and rewards those who can't get their own things. Lets say I walk into town just got some nice loot from a Hub Patrol, I go to sell it, someone thieves it from me. They just got a nice item without any consequence ESPECIALLY if they didn't get caught.


This suggestion was to prevent that, and in terms of realism IT MAKES SENSE.
I see no REAL REASON why this shouldnt be implemented, other than claiming that I am just whining about being stolen from and want it to be nerfed.

[Deagonx]

Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.

Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.

[Deagonx]

Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.

Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.

[falloutdude]

dont triple post. use edit

[HertogJan]

Alright, this is derailing into work arounds.

As stated, player to player stealing is just a bad idea in general. The entire prospect of it just hurts players, and rewards those who can't get their own things. Lets say I walk into town just got some nice loot from a Hub Patrol, I go to sell it, someone thieves it from me. They just got a nice item without any consequence ESPECIALLY if they didn't get caught.

This suggestion was to prevent that, and in terms of realism IT MAKES SENSE.
I see no REAL REASON why this shouldnt be implemented, other than claiming that I am just whining about being stolen from and want it to be nerfed.

How is this different from encountering a group of PK (with mercs/slaves)?
They get your items without any consequences too.
Pay attention when trading.

Alright, let me give you an example where you can steal however much you please and no one can do a damn thing.

Junktown, if someone steals and they get tagged as a thief, you can kill them right?
Wrong, pull out a weapon and the guards kill you. So that thief just keeps pickpocketing you and you have no defense at it. It is not right, I understand that the wasteland is harsh, but this is an example of BAD game mechanics.

The same goes for NCR and to a lesser effect VC inner cities.
You know that when you enter.
Than again, I have shot an unprotected thief in Junktown this session. You have to be quick to pull it of. Put the weapon in the active slot, burst, remove it from the active slot. If you're fast enough you are removing it or already have removed it from the active slot when the guards warn you.
If you let a thief steal from you while knowing he's a thief, you deserve to be stolen from.
You can always move away.