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[Vaimortal]

I don't who is that idiot , but small balance ? SG counters BG and everyone knows that , he obviously don't know shit what is he talking about.

It's the rock/paper/scissor triangle , SG mostly beats BG , BG mostly beats Leader Mercs but Leader Mercs counter SG. The problem is you are most likely to encounter a sniper than a leader merc. How do you balance that ? I believe BG needs better odds against SG. There are many ways how to accomplish that you can nerf SG or boost BG , or add new perks , or new " mechanics" ( or any of these variations mentioned) for example like solar said that AC could interfere with opponents crit chance.

Now the million dollar question is how to balance , not what to balance ?

Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.

[manero]

kiki i started in september 2009. anyway u made me laugh and i dont care about your insults. that was funny you are the one who is pro gammer here hehe...

[Solar]

Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.

Until its in the game, there is always the possibility I can change my mind - so I don't generally say "It will be" because it might then change to be something else. Perks for example have undergone several reforms since I first thought they were finished.

Anyway, hopefully we will have more build types than SG/BG/Leader post wipe, but we shall see.

[Hololasima]

For me crit tabels is ok, most snaipers got 'finesse' trait so its mean they have huge chance to shot whit critical but this critical dont mean it's gona be good dmg...

It mean that in 8/10 cases you will get crit which cripple/blind/"your weapon was dropped" you. Do you understand it ? Do you understand how stupid it is when you are in small room with Big gunner and cant fight because you dont have weapon ? BG must be superior in small quarters

[187umkillass]

Now the million dollar question is how to balance , not what to balance ?

Make some test to balance CBT, people gona be testing pvp weapon's, DR, Ammo mod,weapon dmg, mostly for BG and Laser's becouse why we cant play in pvp of course whit some good results Gatling?
If someone gonna play whit modification for Gatling( Dmg mod,perk for gatling,or Dr  armor) it will be more option to play on pvp.


And yes BG need's some boost like some time ago, Avenger will be hit for huge hp's and snaiper gonna survive two burst's  becouse it should be!

[vedaras]

but i was not talking about the money situation i was talking about PVP chrs...

Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.

[kiki123]

Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.

lmfao weapon stats changed that is the whole point of my conversation not money not characters but weapons and crits.

[avv]

Dude, its not that hard to reason and understand that if you have stuff in game that cost for example 10 times the amount of some other stuff, it should be better in battles of that game. Before what we had? 1) More expensive stuff was better. 2) Now cheaper is. So personally you, which of these 2 situations do you find more right? Current situation is completely wrong. You want to talk about pvp chars, but actually they almost didint change at all, only the weapon statistics did, which led to current situation.

If expensive weapons equal automatic superiority in pvp, we're going to have less pvp because many players don't want to participate because they can't afford it.

[vedaras]

If expensive weapons equal automatic superiority in pvp, we're going to have less pvp because many players don't want to participate because they can't afford it.

Dont take it so plain. If we compare avenger 10k price + 500 burst price with sniper rifle 5k price with 12 caps shot price, then i would think of situation being balanced if avenger would have 60-65% to win and 35-40% to lose. Now avenger has even bigger chance to lose this is completely wrong :> And talking about economic situation i dont remember any session where players could not afford something :>

[kiki123]

Dont take it so plain. If we compare avenger 10k price + 500 burst price with sniper rifle 5k price with 12 caps shot price, then i would think of situation being balanced if avenger would have 60-65% to win and 35-40% to lose. Now avenger has even bigger chance to lose this is completely wrong :> And talking about economic situation i dont remember any session where players could not afford something :>

You do have a point there vederas....

[Solar]

It mean that in 8/10 cases you will get crit which cripple/blind/"your weapon was dropped" you. Do you understand it ? Do you understand how stupid it is when you are in small room with Big gunner and cant fight because you dont have weapon ? BG must be superior in small quarters

That just isn't the case.


About weapon prices, they are all just the old ones from last wipe. There has been a lot of changes to the weapon stats without anything being done about their pricing because their final balance hadn't been decided and I wasn't going to redo their crafting each time I wanted to change one thing. I've said this on many occasions.

Also during that time I have been trying to squeeze the weapons closer together so that a tech advanatge doesn't equate to an auto win, so things will naturally end up costing more similar amounts too when they are repriced (which will also be happening on the wipe).

[avv]

That just isn't the case.

What isn't what case? It is true that snipers can still manage against bg in close range combat. A minigunner is very likely thrown unconscious with hundred hp wound in his forehead if he tries to rush sniper in close quarters. That's because when going towards sniper, the bg is vulnerable to eyeshots. In close quarters it's a matter of fast clicking when bg and sniper fight. Even if the sniper doesn't fire first but survives the biggunners first burst, he gets to land guaranteed eyeshot on the big gunner because after firing the big gunner is facing the sniper.

The direction-dependent eyeshooting is good and bad feature. It encourages good positioning and discourages stupid bumrushing, but encourages retarded turning in the middle of fight. "hoho lookit me, ima turn my back to the enemy so that he can't fire my eyes". In addition when 2 snipers fight, the one who fires first is actually in certain disadvantage because if the enemy sniper isn't facing the one who shoots first, he gets only headshot while the one who shoots last gets eyeshot.

However I don't agree with Holo that bg has to be the close quarters fighter. Shotguns, pistols, assault rifles and smgs need to have their role too. If bg runs the damage monopoly in close range, we have lots of interesting weapons without use.

[kiki123]

I don't who is that idiot , but small balance ? SG counters BG and everyone knows that , he obviously don't know shit what is he talking about.

It's the rock/paper/scissor triangle , SG mostly beats BG , BG mostly beats Leader Mercs but Leader Mercs counter SG.

Even Solar cannot be certain , because many Solar posts contain words like might/i think/should/I believe/could etc. etc. , those words do not express certainty.

Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and  Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances??
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...

[Crazy]

Are u trying to tell me that Sg. allways used to be overpowered and  Crits were as eazy to make, and without auto aim small guns had huge chances??
I havent played for a year and half, but small gunners were never able to kill a bg in pvp only if it was a noob, or if the sniper was very pro and very lucky. It was a waste of time to be SG, and maybe every third faction member leveld one up. Now i see more small gunners in factions i see more snipers and i am happy. Yes maybe there should be a better balance since having auto aim is just amazingly easy and fast. Before u had to hope the bg didnt see you and burst u u had to have crazy Perception and be amazingly fast in the aiming process. so saying that SG mostly beats BG is fuckin howls man...

Yeah, last session SG was so bad that RDA were very often playing almost full sniper team, and they were fucking good...

[Solar]

What isn't what case? It is true that snipers can still manage against bg in close range combat. A minigunner is very likely thrown unconscious with hundred hp wound in his forehead if he tries to rush sniper in close quarters. That's because when going towards sniper, the bg is vulnerable to eyeshots. In close quarters it's a matter of fast clicking when bg and sniper fight. Even if the sniper doesn't fire first but survives the biggunners first burst, he gets to land guaranteed eyeshot on the big gunner because after firing the big gunner is facing the sniper.

The direction-dependent eyeshooting is good and bad feature. It encourages good positioning and discourages stupid bumrushing, but encourages retarded turning in the middle of fight. "hoho lookit me, ima turn my back to the enemy so that he can't fire my eyes". In addition when 2 snipers fight, the one who fires first is actually in certain disadvantage because if the enemy sniper isn't facing the one who shoots first, he gets only headshot while the one who shoots last gets eyeshot.

However I don't agree with Holo that bg has to be the close quarters fighter. Shotguns, pistols, assault rifles and smgs need to have their role too. If bg runs the damage monopoly in close range, we have lots of interesting weapons without use.

[quote ]It mean that in 8/10 cases ... [/quote]

There is not an 80% chance for any of those things, its hyperbole.

As for BG vs SG, its still the case that against burst you have your defense perks and armour already – post wipe you will have defense perks against crits and armour will defend you a bit too.

When we have had a good few weeks under the new system it will be worth discussing again, as there are bound to be some tweaks needed.

There’s going to be a lot of variables which will be different and its impossible to guess at the overall effect.