Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Crazy]

Its fine, presuming its sufficiently rare that it is never used. Its way too good now if it ever gets used.

Well, never seen anyone using gauss outside big TC battles ;p Pretty much the only place where it  take the whole interest: you can really use the advantage of range and damage combined, enough to be more effective than others snipers, but not than two.

Dropping it down to somewhere in the region of twice as good vs BA as a .223 pistol would mean its still really great, its just not so increadibly great that it makes all other weapons look like pea shooters.

Hmm, for me it's already that, taken into account base damage, range, lower AP cost and ammo boost. But well, numbers... Numbers never change...

I've been working on a price system for weapons the last few days, which generates a price based upon their power vs different armour types, the range and a couple of other things. The Avenger comes out at $6350, the Sniper Rifle comes out at $5000, a buffed Gatling comes out at $5450, a nerfed Gauss Rifle comes out at $8800 (most expensive thing) and an unnerfed Gauss Rifle comes out at $11100 (!).

I really hope crits will be nerfed in that new system, or avenger is pretty much overpriced, and formula wrong ;p
PS: on recent test, it came out than it's more effective to use JHP on metal than AP now. Can you confirm with your numbers? Is that intended?

If you had a small chance of finding a rifle per hour (say 1 in 150) and a little higher of a pistol (say 1 in 75) with sufficiently hard work to do to even have a chance ... then you won't really be swimming in gauss. Could also limit it to between 10-50 rounds spawning in the whole of the glow per hour.

Damn, rounds are really not enough now I think, there is simply to much people going to Glow compared to ammo spawning. Added that it use much ammo each battle... Something like 30-50 would be better I think. Enough to be able to use it without going to glow every days in a week at hours when nobody go, but not enough to use it everyday either.

[Krukon]

First of all, gauss isnt stocked by big gangs, as far as I know every fight having at least 15v15 participants has at least one gauss on each side. If I am correct, the highest amount used in single fight was 4 or 5 (if not 6).

I also support making Bozar gatherable via glow, as it would encourage more teams to go in there, which would encourage player fighting events over that place.

Last but not least: the range should be counted much more in this pricing you made solar. If the damage can be high (oh, crap, so is the sniper rifle) the range is most important counter. Consider that, please.

[Solar]

Range is counted. Its counted triple if a weapon is also Long Ranged (Sniper is, Gauss isn't). Its why a Sniper rifle is near enough to an Avenger even though a Snipers damage is very small in comparison.

Bozar ($8000) could be fit in somewhere. Also must be sufficiently rare.

[Krukon]

But when you are making any strategy, first of you search for such situations, where you can pwn enemy without being hit or even... seen...
Thats why sniper rifle (even if its avarange damage output is lower) is better than Avanger. More flexibility = better. More range = more flexibility. In fact fight having 10 snipers vs 10 avangers means bout 3-4 dead snipers and whole team of avangers wiped (as its the snipers who usually determine where the fight will be held). As avanger is good only in particular situations (corridors/buildings fights) snipers can do some good job everywhere. Even if we consider one sniper as weaker than one miniguner (I cannot agree on that, but just take it in consideration) - ten snipers in teams cooperate much better than ten minigunners.

This is why the first counter you have to take to consideration is range. If you need proof, then just make some big maps and boost BBgun range to 80

ps. Solar, please, make any decision about my ban appeal, as Id like to know if I should shut myself up or retun to normal account.
ps2. Bout Bozar: I fully agree. Hope we gonna balance it nicely.


edit @ down: try cooperating those snipers now, instead of every of them shooting different guys
and yeah, teams are mixed, but usually the one with more snipers win :<

edit @ sarakin: you are wrong and I am not nice boat, despite being part of his gang. And its snipers who determine where the fights will be held, so its them, who decide how the battle will look like. And this 10v10 was stupid example to point out important counter, and im not native english speaker to speak my mind perfectly

[Hovinko]

2 Krukon: Omg that is not a true.


Sniper vs BG is not only about weapon. Its about a whole different build. Sniper has often around 160 hps. NO toughness and using JET.
How many times you need to do a critical shot into eyes to kill bg? 1-3 ? And its still luck dependant. And its about 7-21 APs. And thats hell of a time.

If you will put 10 snipers and 10 tank big guners with avengers. Big gunners with rush and will win. Because sniper is dead from 1, max from 2 bursts.
And it must be a HELL of a LUCK. To kill 10 big guners on first or second shot from 10 snipers.

Even in 1vs1, good big guner kill sniper very easily. Everything is about eyeshots or knockouts. And if BG know how to move without getting hit in the eyes (Yes its about skill) sniper is dependand only on HEAVY LUCK to do instakill or knockout into head.

TC is about mixing team of players. I really wanna see team only of big guners or snipers, it will be shit.
 Snipers need meatshields (Big gunners) also BG need support from snipers.

Update.
Btw. Gauss build is only good at using gauss. So its one purpose build. And not very cheap one with rareness of gauss. Consider that too.

[Sarakin]

My few cents.
Weapon perks dont really matter, players will always try to have max hit chance on max range, no matter what. Of course, penetrate is different subject.

Im for adding as rare weapons: pulse pistol, bozar, turbo plasma rifle and g11, so not only small gun snipers can have rare weapon.

Gauss pistol is really good and I think its even better than gauss rifle. Nevertheless, these characters are fragile and die easily if not covered. Its not a IKillAll character.

Truth lies somewhere in-between hovinko and nice boat. 10 on 10 scenario, big gunners will mostly win, as hovinko stated. But the strength in snipers lies in flexibility as nice boat stated, you can try to kill someone and then retreat. Not to mention, people cant figure out from where that shot came from.

[Gorlak]

Thinking of taming down Gauss a little and making it only available from Glow in a limited form

This would be a great decision. There are far too many people who create dozens of 'getmegauss' alts, with only intention to search for these special encounters. Is not right.

[Badger]

This would be a great decision. There are far too many people who create dozens of 'getmegauss' alts, with only intention to search for these special encounters. Is not right.

Agreed. I like the idea of occasionally getting lucky and finding something useful in an encounter, but definitely not the best gear. Much better to reward players for teamwork and exploration.

[Skycast]

I like the idea of occasionally getting lucky and finding something useful in an encounter, but definitely not the best gear.

90%people selling gauss on forum after they find spec enc so let them just find money there *_)

[Izual]

Gorlak has a point, also don't forget about special-gauss powerbuilds alts.

[Solar]

My few cents.
Weapon perks dont really matter, players will always try to have max hit chance on max range, no matter what. Of course, penetrate is different subject.

Im for adding as rare weapons: pulse pistol, bozar, turbo plasma rifle and g11, so not only small gun snipers can have rare weapon.

Gauss pistol is really good and I think its even better than gauss rifle. Nevertheless, these characters are fragile and die easily if not covered. Its not a IKillAll character.

Truth lies somewhere in-between hovinko and nice boat. 10 on 10 scenario, big gunners will mostly win, as hovinko stated. But the strength in snipers lies in flexibility as nice boat stated, you can try to kill someone and then retreat. Not to mention, people cant figure out from where that shot came from.

Penetrate is factored in because the damage I'm using is based upon real damage done to the different armours, then weighted to make damage to higher armour more important.

Long Range needs to be factored in because it gives flexibility. Hitting at 50 hexes with a Gauss is a lot harder than with a Sniper Rifle - so requires a more extreme build. When we have a greater variety of perks this should then reflect in being able to have a Sniper who can take more "non essential" perks and have abilities elsewhere whilst someone building for a weapon without the long range perk must invest more into I and Pe to make that up.

At the end of the day, how price is exactly calculated is not a science and so long as everything is roughly in the right ballpark I'll be happy enough.


The rarew weapons I was thinking of initially are Gatling (Enclave Encounters),  Bozar (somewhere?), Gauss Pistol/Rifle (Small quantities, Glow), XL70 (BoS Encounters) and FN FAL HPFA (somewhere?)

[Krukon]

FN FAL HPFA seems to be weapons which would fit the succesfull bounty hunter image. I mean, rare "Experienced bounty hunters" with some better stuff, much harder to kill and much nicier to loot, able to be found around Redding or New Reno. They could also have holodisc with location of XXX (put something to fight with) which would result in another, random quest.

Bozar could be held by officer leading anti-guerilla teams used by VC in order to fight ghoul crazies / NCR army fighting crazies/muties.
Those encounters could also add possibility of getting ad-hoc quest (If managed to save ambushed muties from evil capitalists )

Both those Bozar encounters should be rare and should give a possibility of making two quests, (helping NCR, getting reward / helping muties, getting different, smaller reward and loot from killed NPC / failing and killing both teams).

This idea introduces those weapons and makes encounters something more than just "lets kill this shit" events. In fact lots of encounters could lead to random bigger or smaller quests, just to enrich the gameplay.


ps. of course this idea is just an example, eventually to be modified and adjusted :>

[Daro]

90%people selling gauss on forum after they find spec enc so let them just find money there *_)

Don't forget about rare items collectors.

Gorlak has a point, also don't forget about special-gauss powerbuilds alts.

What is wrong with special gauss character? F2238 is alts mode. We need alts to everything. Crafters, cripplers, normal snipers, flamer alts, miniguners, rocket man, taxi, speakers, HtH, locksmiths, repair man etc. Why do you care about gauss character?

[Haterade]

i think there should be weapon level requirements...

like you require 18 lvl to use gauss pistol/rifle, 21 lvl to use bozar.. etc, so every weapon is obtainable but cannot be used by everyone, and of course they shouldnt be too powerful, gauss rifle could be only good for crits and accuracy, but damage should be small (after all its just a 2mm ball, wtf?!) it would be good for cripplers, bozar could be big gun sniper's dream, same as sniper, except worse crit chance to when hit any body parts, but does high damage because of its caliber (uh i think it should have own type of ammo... dunno something like .50? Lol)

[Hovinko]

Every change of way, how to get rare weapons, which will not be based upon HUGE RANDOM factor, leads into massive farming of these weapons.
And what will be the end? Every one will have just these weapons.

For example if you make gauss spawn in glow. There will be small group of players 24/7.

And what will be outcome?

1, Respawn will be often (1-2 per day), which cause 1 group of no lifers will have all of them. Propably the biggest gang.

2, Respawn will be sometimes (1-2 per week), no one will use them anymore. Because of players psychology. (I have something rare i dont want to lose it.)

Give 10 power armors to the players and I garant you, after 1 week, they will be till the wipe lying in someones tent.
Noone will use it in battle, because of fear of loosing "lulz and rare" stuff.