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[avv]

If you are playing a sniper and attempt to kill someone equipped with avenger from close range, with hope that you will cripple him, then it's YOUR fail, right. But we're not talking here about dumb fighters, right? Sniper can see a minigunner from as far as 56 hexes and shoot him from 50, big gunner has average fov range about 40 and his avenger has 35 range.

But isn't it also a dumb attempt for big gunner to try to outmatch a sniper from long range?

With 8 action points and brof u can try twice with mauser or any other pistol(except .223 pistol). Its not so hard to get 8ap even if u are sniper.  Im sure u will cripple that hand. Moreover, nowadays u dont have even to aim! Just one click...

Aiming shouldn't have anything to do with fonline anyway. Sure you can try to cripple, but it's still a gamble where failing leads to dead crippler due to high and reliable damage output from big gunner.

But all in all, what do you guys propose that should be done?

[manero]

Bring back Avanger from the past.

[avv]

Bring back Avanger from the past.

So more instapwn. Isn't avenger equally vulnerable to cripples and blinds as any other bg weapon?

[manero]

It is but with better range and damage would be challenge. Now both suxx. Have u seen that screenshot that i posted?

FOnline 2238 Avanger Minigun looks like:
Damage    8 - 11
Burst    AP: 7, Range: 35, Rounds: 40

Fallout 2 Avanger Minigun looks like:
Damage    10 - 14
Burst        AP: 7(got 6 but in FOnline2238 every big guns need 7 so i put 7 here), Range: 40, Rounds: 40

Year ago we had original Avanger Minigun, today we got poor copy with nerfed damage, range and nerfed AP ammo. I dont know why, can someone tell me? For balance? There is no balance atm. Big guns are synonym to the word: shit.

[avv]

It is but with better range and damage would be challenge. Now both suxx. Have u seen that screenshot that i posted?

So just add a new more powerful gun and everything is supposed to be fine?
I personally think it's bad that material and equipment has so heavy bearing in combat success. There's been many threads about making combat require more skill rather than encouraging players to arms race. For example increasing frontal line of sight for everybody and decreasing it from the sides would help low PE characters spot where snipers are and use cover to gain ground.

And like I said, the biggest problem is the way shots are delivered: instantly and without accuracy penalties. A 220%sg sniper hits horizontally running player in the arms from 20hex equally fine as if the target was standing right right in front of him. Too much unmodified values, too much is dependent on build and equipment.

[VAULTB0Y]

its strange that they have banned people for using autoaim some time ago and now its an ingame feature  ...

Anyway u just mad that ur 11bg builds are f***ed now  ... Wipe is "soon" anyway then just make 11 sniper alts to own again afterwipe   (just joking)

[manero]

So just add a new more powerful gun and everything is supposed to be fine?

Big guns dont have powerfull gun at the moment. So yes.

[avv]

Big guns dont have powerfull gun at the moment. So yes.

If skill has bigger impact on your success, you don't necessarily need the meanest gun around to win.

[Rejfyl]

Big gunners should be more powerfull then snipers. It's obvious for anyone who played with both type of characters. Crafting ammo is a pain in the ass and guns are usually more expensive. This higher cost should be compensated in higher efficiency . I think both avenger and minigun deserve a dmg boost.

[Deep]

Wait is that topic about big guners character playing + and - or avanger?

There is no other pvp than TC(there are better weapons than avanger for TC)

Big guns dont have powerfull gun at the moment.

I think you are wrong. As you said TC is whole pvp now and yes it is, then you forget about something like bazoka.
And if we are talking about ave, yes it sucks its not the same like year ago but its still the best 1-2hexes defending postions weapon helping bazoka and making BG char still good playable.
The truth is that previous session was the worse time ever for BGs when snipers was great imba instant killers. I wonder did you post any words in my topic that days? I wrote 20posts like you now and finally they changed something for good(a little).
Anyway its seems that you want  back to times where is max metal armor mk2 and normal shoot by weapon can kill your char in one moment. Great... its not fps game, only fallout if faster you die then more pvp is incorrect.

[manero]

I think you are wrong. As you said TC is whole pvp now and yes it is, then you forget about something like bazoka.

I did not forget:

Nerfed armor piercing ammo and their range made miniguns useless on town control(nowadays we use only sniper rifles and rocket launchers)

rocket launcher = bazooka

Im talking about avanger because it should be top big guns weapon but it is not. RL which is 1st tier weapon is more usefull on TC than 3rd tier weapon(Avanger Minigun) which can help in few situations but is not necessary.

The truth is that previous session was the worse time ever for BGs when snipers was great imba instant killers.

I think this is the worst season for big gunners. In previous season fast shot worked with big guns and AP ammo was more usefull. I had psycho big gunner with 3 bursts in row, that was great. I didnt have same damage like year ago but big guns were still deadly.

Nowadays, Fast Shot doesnt work with Big Guns and armor piercing ammo is less usefull than it was. And that autoaim... Its far harder to play big gunner today.

[Crazy]

I totally agree with Manero. Like him, I used to play a lot as minigunner, and was still doing it at the beginning of the era (and still sometimes, for small engagements...) but now, in TC, it's totally unplayable, sniper will always kill ya from long range, and with a bit of luck at short/middle range too. Laser sniper will surely kill you at middle/long range, and have pretty good chances at short range. Plasma tank will butcher you at close range. Rocketter will never let you approach or shot two time, usually, you die fast from a rocketcrit or 5/6 rockets at same time when deseperately trying to get your range. It's hard to use, cause you have to be always in first line or you will kill one of your mate, the AoE is a penalty more than a bonus, cause it's far easier to shot one of your mate than two ennemies. It also force you to place where you have the best chances to die, and in a rush, or you're first and die before getting ennemy, or you're not first and can't shoot without hurting teamates.
It's very heavy, very expansive to have and feed, and even with "the better DPS" it still happen often to rage behind your computer cause you done two time 60 damage on a metal armor instead of two times 80 (which is already barely enough to kill a sniper) or because your useless stonewall 10EN didn't protected you at all. Coming at point blank, and hitting for 120, or even 200 and be killed by the nasty eyecrit in return...
Really, or give back to avenger stat from FO2, or come back to good old AP ammo... ATM, it's really the worst T3 weapon.

[Hololasima]

Right

[Alvarez]

Another advantage of a BG that it doesn't need any LK, so it can be spent in another stats, like PE, AG or EN, so you better start sneaking.

[manero]

Another advantage of a BG that it doesn't need any LK, so it can be spent in another stats, like PE, AG or EN, so you better start sneaking.

What? Man if i were u i would delete this post as soon as it possible. No LK for big gunner? I would love to see your big gunners builds. U need at least 6 lk to get BRD, without this perk Minigun is... i cant find a word. Sorry. Even if u play with bazooka u have to have 6lk for more criticals. If u dont know that, please stop posting because u have no idea what are you talking about.