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[avv]

Should we disable all interesting features because "it is abusable"?

No, we should fix the abuses first and then implement new features.

[Crazy]

No, we should fix the abuses first and then implement new features.

Then we will have some years to wait before new features.
It's a beta. Ofc new features will be abused. We have to implement it to be able to fix it.

[Mayck]

I've been playing on TLA few months ago, and I can tell, that it is much easier to dissassemble a sandbag-wall then to assemble it.
The filled sandbags were pretty heavy, even a packmule alt wasn't able to carry more than 3 at one time, and there was a cooldown for filling a sandbag. It actually took more than 15 minutes for 2 people to completely block a single enterance (enterance itself and few hexes behind it) and it took about 3 minutes for one character to completely dissassemble it. What I'm trying to say, is that if you're not actively defending the sandbag-wall then it's practicly useless. (It's much easier to camp all entrances with mercs or undermine NCR with dynamite)
If it could be placed only in TC areas then, the only problem I see is that it cannot be dissassebled by very weak characters.

[Solar]

I beleive we will see sandbags in domination, with them only being able to be deployed on those maps.

We want there to be lots of features that can be used on them - sandbags, mines, fences you can turn on and off, sewers for short cuts, turrets you can repair, etc.

[5me0]

Just limiting you ennemies moves doesn't mean you have won...

Doing that with only taking cover right now and clever player placement/variety, pretty much does.
Oh, other than having a gang of supermuties.

Then we will have some years to wait before new features.
It's a beta. Ofc new features will be abused. We have to implement it to be able to fix it.

Not really...but is there a point in implementing a feature that needs to be dumbed down to oblivion so that it is of use without being an abuse fest ?
There is no need to break TC more than it is right now.
I'm not saying that there isn't a need for more variety right now, but giving players an absolute choice as to what to block isn't a great idea.

Besides, I don't see the point. There is usually enough cover to restrict enemy movement if you are smart about it.
Giving even more power will just make fights more unbalanced.

Only 3 sandbags are needed to camp Gecko's scrap yard for instance Im sure the same can be said for other towns.
Even if the sandbags can be destroyed, they would still give an epicly unfair advantage in this and other cases.

Of course, this is all in my humble opinion.

[avv]

Then we will have some years to wait before new features.
It's a beta. Ofc new features will be abused. We have to implement it to be able to fix it.

Years is exaggerated, but surely it's gonna take more time to see new features. But then we got clean table to place those new features without having to worry about changing them again because something that was implemented before needed fixing and it affected the new feature. What happens when new features are laid on top of unfinished features is expenential increase in abuse or completely new methods of abuse. For example let's say alts are an abuse. Then you have fast relog which alongside with alts create pretty troubblesome and game breaking playstyle. If either fast relog or alts were already fixed before, we wouldn't have fast relogging fighterbuilds/looters.

I can't say that sandbags would have the same problem but who knows for sure? Pvp isn't particularly finished and there's surely going to be changes to character builds and who knows what. New features are alright if they fix some particular problem or their effect is contained but if they just add new activity on top of already unfinished material, new problems are quaranteed.

Since Solar said sandbags will only be used in Domination, it's alright since the feature is contained to that area of gameplay only.

[Lordus]

 Domination mode is good way how to start. I hope we will be able to see this feature in other places like TC cities and others. You are afraid of sideeffects, that are eliminated in TLA because of values i described before.

 If someone want to PK somewhere, it is more easy to do it without sandbags (you can see from town preview) because the best advantage is to be hidden. So dont afraid of this. I repeat, this is not new idea, this works for half a year at TLA server at every locations!!! and there is not anything like cities filled with sandbags...

 And because maps are not dynamic, this could replace this disadvantage.

 

I beleive we will see sandbags in domination, with them only being able to be deployed on those maps.

We want there to be lots of features that can be used on them - sandbags, mines, fences you can turn on and off, sewers for short cuts, turrets you can repair, etc.

 I have question. I know maps could not be dynamic, there could be only few dynamic objects (gates,...). But did you though about bypassing this problem, that you can i.e. create one map and then modify it on five six places (doors instead of walls, walls instead of doors), so you can create i.e. dozen variation from one map. One of that variation of map would randomly loaded before team enters that domination location. So nobody would exactly know what exact map there would be (some variation better for SGnunners, some from snipers, BG...) and this unpredictable element could be very challenging (good combination of team,...).

[Andr3aZ]

So i only flew over the most posts after the first page so i dont know if this has been posted already:

Maybe using a knife (quality could depend, maybe only cmbtKnife is sharp enough) on the sandbags would resolve in instant destroying as the bag is cut and sand flows out of it. (yeah its a bit unrealistic).
but its an easy (yet not too easy as you have to do it with every sandbag of the stack on the hex) way to destroy sandbag-walls that arent guarded. And non guarded defence shouldnt be too strong in resistance as it would be too much build-and-forget mentalitly

[aguuux]

Or maybe u can throw a spear to destroy it at long range

[kraskish]

Or maybe u can throw a spear to destroy it at long range

LMAO that would need to be one hell of a spear

[Andr3aZ]

LMAO that would need to be one hell of a spear

or one hell of a throwing arm.

A spear would pierce the sandbag and left stuck inside it, blocking the hole, so the sand cant flow out except you let the spear pierce the sandbag completly and fly out of the other side.
A knife could cut along the side of the sandbag and produce a long cut like this, where sand can flow out on a broad space.


This is just a realism remark. Normally we shouldnt count on realism if gameplay and fun can be highered. But thats just my opinion bro.

[Reginmund]

even if you slash a sandbag, that won't get all the sand out of it although you will effectively reduce the protection from them. we are talking about stacked up ones here though aren't we? not just a single bag lying there.

[Andr3aZ]

even if you slash a sandbag, that won't get all the sand out of it although you will effectively reduce the protection from them. we are talking about stacked up ones here though aren't we? not just a single bag lying there.

indeed.

instant destroying as the bag is cut and sand flows out of it. (yeah its a bit unrealistic).

i though about a knife and a "use on" just because the sandbags wouldnt need to be "shootable" as they need to be if you wanna throw spears on them.