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[avv]

Some people play alone, others in groups.
Punishing people for playing solo is bullshit.

Maybe not punish but rather "not worth it". It's all about encouraging.
Besides playing solo doesn't necessarily mean zero interaction. I'll explain it in this post.

I am in a faction, roughly 10 people in total.
At the moment I appear to be the only one still playing.
So I should be punished for that?

I've played my whole fonline gaming time as loner yet I support player interaction and am against 0 player interaction singleplaying.

Why? Because solo players can also add to the world activity. They could travel around, meet people, shoot them, greet them, go to do some quests with them and when both have gotten help they needed they can say goodbye and remember each other for future. If there was better player to player trade system, solo players might be top customers.   

Perhaps the npc faction changes mentioned by devs might actually result in more player interaction from smaller gangs and loners.
Going to war with eachother and npcs to fight enemy npc factions, etc.

This is what I hope aswell.

[kraskish]

kraskish all those ideas of yours don't encourage multiplayer in any way. Only good of those is the "merchants only buy 0% det stuff". It would work alongside with good disassembling system. It wouldn't solve the solo farming, but there would be less crap in shops.

Well merchants buying everything for a 5% or less could also solve shops full of farmed stuff. This stuff could be available to barter at the 1ch shops while 3ch or normal shops would have either caps or good stuff. Kind of order. Because you can rarely find something straight away new at the shop. This would also make crafting a bit more useful

[vilaz]

I think ANY idea that could bring some caps into game is good.

Like Junktown buying sharpened and normal spears, that is one of my ways to make money I'm walking around towns trading useless stuff for spears and then selling it all in JT. It's around 2k for a trip. Not much but hell I'm so happy to see those caps.

Still, main problem is alting... One man army where You can be armorer, weapon crafter, gatherer, miner and fighter in one but in separate characters... We are somewhere in middle where alting is not forbidden but it's also not accepted. You can have Your own cave alone but only when You have 2 friends which can buy it with You. You can exchange Your stuff between characters but still You need someone to help You create tent. There is no delivery or mail system or even possibility to rent storage or something.

Maybe it's just me... but always biggest problems with game is going straight to alting.

[kraskish]

Solar said they want somehow combine combat chars with the secondary occupation options so reduce alting. It would be cool if some or all of items could be used only by the crafter.

Economy is sick at the moment... caps respawn every 8th at 0:00, 8 and 16 AFAIK, so if youre not playing then then its your problem and also even if youre there remember ONE PERSON AT A TIME!

Without caps you cannot progress in the game. Quite funny but large factions can sit on their asses and obtain pure caps out of controlled towns. good for them and their millions while usual wastelanders are left with nothing. Great justice

[HertogJan]

You're wrong about the caps respawn times.
At least in NCR and VC.
As far as I know, assuming it hasn't been changed, caps spawn every 6 hours.

As for caps being hard to get, I disagree.
I did 1 trading trip yesterday from VC to SF and back, making a little detour to get additional stuff from 1 of our bases, and managed to get 40k.
That trip was done with a doc alt.
I often see the same names or their alts at the same traders.
In VC that's understandable with the doc alts around, in the Den with the slavers, but I don't get it with other towns.

As for alting, remove the 4 professions cap.
There's overlap in some profession's requirements which can easily reduce the number of alts.
Especially with BG, SG and armorer there's an overlap.
Not sure if you could make 1 alt out of those 3, but 2 instead of 3 is possible.
Also some people are just lazy and create alts where hybrids (for none combat alts) could do just as well.
Current system stimulates alting, different alts give different playing style, thus more variation, thus more fun.
We would see significantly less people on the server if we had 1 alt per player.

[avv]

I think ANY idea that could bring some caps into game is good.

It's not that simple. You have to think of the consequences and does the new feature support what the game is supposed to encourage players to do. Bad implementation of more caps could ruin the whole economy.

I'd like to see one major cap source being helping npc factions with other players. One would be caravan guarding which was suggested before. You get caps from every succesful haul, but there are also players who want to raid the caravans. Best cap sources should be from pvp and teamwork with others because such activity provides most player interaction.

[vilaz]

As for caps being hard to get, I disagree.
I did 1 trading trip yesterday from VC to SF and back, making a little detour to get additional stuff from 1 of our bases, and managed to get 40k.
That trip was done with a doc alt.
I often see the same names or their alts at the same traders.
In VC that's understandable with the doc alts around, in the Den with the slavers, but I don't get it with other towns.

40k ?? It's hard to believe... anyway still it's trip made by car which can be bought only for caps! I can't see anybody walking all way from VC to SF (with this little detour). I think you were pretty lucky or just have great timing. The biggest amount of caps I ever seen in one trader was around 12k in Gun Runners. If those damn TC gangs could spent some caps in traders... it would be whole different situation.

[avv]

If those damn TC gangs could spent some caps in traders... it would be whole different situation.

But why would they? Everything can be bought with farmed items.

[John Ryder]

But why would they? Everything can be bought with farmed items.

Or crafted items made from farming ore and minerals. ;_;

[pistacja]

But why would they? Everything can be bought with farmed items.

If it was so, there would be no problem. You can't buy professions, mercs, cars, hotel rooms, nuka-cola, cigarettes, bases, bio-med gel, refine uranium ore, super toolkit ...and so one with items, you need caps.   

[avv]

If it was so, there would be no problem. You can't buy professions, mercs, cars, hotel rooms, nuka-cola, cigarettes, bases, bio-med gel, refine uranium ore, super toolkit ...and so one with items, you need caps.   

By everything I meant everything from shops. Buying absolutely everything with junk items would be goddamn horrible in terms of workingl economy. It would basically mean that every last hope of player interaction in economy would be lost.

[HertogJan]

40k ?? It's hard to believe... anyway still it's trip made by car which can be bought only for caps! I can't see anybody walking all way from VC to SF (with this little detour). I think you were pretty lucky or just have great timing. The biggest amount of caps I ever seen in one trader was around 12k in Gun Runners. If those damn TC gangs could spent some caps in traders... it would be whole different situation.

I started in VC and traded for around 10k there.
Than I took the train to the Boneyard and got 2.4k at the station.
Than the train further to SF where 1 trader had 17k and 3 others also had several 1000 caps.
Than a tour to Redding, back to SF, from SF to the Hub, Junktown, NCR and finally back to VC.

On a side note, I got 10k yesterday in VC alone.

I think the big gangs aren't looking at npc traders, it's too inefficient with the amounts they need.
Some probably have a few fixed suppliers and they'll probably check out the trade forum daily.
If you can get .223 or 5mm AP ammo, psycho, buffout, etc. in large amounts and offer it on the trade forum, they might buy it.
You might actually be able to get more than you would get from traders, so it's a win/win for both.

By everything I meant everything from shops. Buying absolutely everything with junk items would be goddamn horrible in terms of workingl economy. It would basically mean that every last hope of player interaction in economy would be lost.

But selling junk items to npc traders is what would happen in a Fallout like world.
Things like ammo could be kind of a currency.

NPC who offer professions could ask for items, though be it not like the guy in Adytum asking for things like 10 green condoms.
For instance:
A certain amount of HQ ores, HQ minerals, GMP, Adv. gunpowder, HQ alloys for SG/BG/EW/Armor/Explosion levels, but depending on where you get the profession.
BoS might instead ask for 5mm AP and/or AP rockets too.
Enclave might add MFC to the mixture.
Docs could ask for meat jerky, med gel, chem components, etc.
So not the low quality easy to get stuff, but the stuff that's a bit harder to get.

Perhaps we could add some kind of supply/demand bulletin board.
Logically it would be placed at the default entrance, another option is near workbenches.
In SF and VC we could use a terminal.
VC could actually have 1 for the courtyard and 1 for the inner city.
Entries would be removed after 24 real-time hours.
Sellers should be able to name what they want as payment.
It might be hard to code, but it could add some player interaction.

[avv]

But selling junk items to npc traders is what would happen in a Fallout like world.

Our chars live in Fallout world. If the npcs are interested in buying that crap why aren't we players aswell? Our chars live in the same world as the npcs so we should have the same desires as they do. But for obvious reasons no player would buy ten radios for caps.

Things like ammo could be kind of a currency.

How could it if it exists in infinite ammounts and is easily farmed?

A certain amount of HQ ores, HQ minerals, GMP, Adv. gunpowder, HQ alloys for SG/BG/EW/Armor/Explosion levels, but depending on where you get the profession.
BoS might instead ask for 5mm AP and/or AP rockets too.
Enclave might add MFC to the mixture.
Docs could ask for meat jerky, med gel, chem components, etc.

Everything but hq mats can be farmed. What can be farmed, can be solo'd and thus it's out of multiplayer experience. I can already see players stealing 5mm ammo from BoS and then giving it back to them.

So not the low quality easy to get stuff, but the stuff that's a bit harder to get.

That's better idea. Preferrably the items should be something that have to be fetched from unsecured places and something so valuable that other players were after them aswell so there would be conflict over them.

Perhaps we could add some kind of supply/demand bulletin board.
Logically it would be placed at the default entrance, another option is near workbenches.
In SF and VC we could use a terminal.
VC could actually have 1 for the courtyard and 1 for the inner city.
Entries would be removed after 24 real-time hours.
Sellers should be able to name what they want as payment.
It might be hard to code, but it could add some player interaction.

Anything for that. There are games that have only player economy, no npc merchants at all and it's always fun to try find something players need and sell it for most profitable price.

[HertogJan]

Our chars live in Fallout world. If the npcs are interested in buying that crap why aren't we players aswell? Our chars live in the same world as the npcs so we should have the same desires as they do. But for obvious reasons no player would buy ten radios for caps.

Only reason to buy radios would be for disassembling them for junk which can be used to craft other items.
Still it would be limited unlike current unlimited system.

How could it if it exists in infinite ammounts and is easily farmed?

Not all ammo is easily farmed, nor can it be farmed in large quantities.
Different value for different ammo, like it is now.

Everything but hq mats can be farmed. What can be farmed, can be solo'd and thus it's out of multiplayer experience. I can already see players stealing 5mm ammo from BoS and then giving it back to them.
That's better idea. Preferrably the items should be something that have to be fetched from unsecured places and something so valuable that other players were after them aswell so there would be conflict over them.

You can't steal stuff from npc you buy professions from.
No reason to change that, so my suggestion still stands.

HQ stuff, chemical components and meat jerky already only can be found in unguarded places.
Most of us get killed at one or more of those places at some point in time.

Anything for that. There are games that have only player economy, no npc merchants at all and it's always fun to try find something players need and sell it for most profitable price.

Current npc trading system pumps a lot of cash into the game.
I can't make an estimated guess, but I think npc traders alone add a few 100k every day.
Removing npc traders won't work.
Caps will be a lot harder to get, which means harder to get a base.
Not much of a problem for TC gangs, but smaller gangs and loners will be screwed.

[avv]

Not all ammo is easily farmed, nor can it be farmed in large quantities.
Different value for different ammo, like it is now.

If it can be farmed, it means that it can be also farmed in large quantities. Our playerbase has proven to be able to concentrate on the most boresome tasks to gain profit.

You can't steal stuff from npc you buy professions from.
No reason to change that, so my suggestion still stands.

Alright then there's another issue. If for example BoS wanted something, it has to mean that they lose something if they don't get it. But if they do get what they want they should also gain something. What I'm talking about here is causality. If you donate ammo to BoS it should naturally mean that they become stronger. If nobody donates, they won't get any stronger and would eventually even lose their strength. If nothing happens there's no point in the whole quest. Why there's no point? Because if there is no causality, there is no multiplayer activity because everyone can simply get that 5mm ammo alone.

We already got some quests with absolutely no point except to give some newbies starting cash. Good example is cargo hauling or spear-selling, completely pointless and all the same whether someone does it or not.

Current npc trading system pumps a lot of cash into the game.
I can't make an estimated guess, but I think npc traders alone add a few 100k every day.
Removing npc traders won't work.
Caps will be a lot harder to get, which means harder to get a base.
Not much of a problem for TC gangs, but smaller gangs and loners will be screwed.

Removing npc traders isn't needed. I just pointed out that there are games without any npc merchants and have working economy.