Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[pistacja]

I know there's been a million and two suggestions on making caps more available, I know it's been discussed time and time and again, but please keep on reading

This One Could Actually Work!

The idea is very simple, just make it so, that the caps given to NPC via dialogue do not vanish but appear back in that NPCs pocked and can be bartered for.
This should work for bartenders and instructors that sell anything.

[avv]

I know there's been a million and two suggestions on making caps more available, I know it's been discussed time and time and again, but please keep on reading

And they all have been turned away because they do not solve the selling useless crap to shops and farming encounters alone problem. Yours isn't any differend.

If your suggestion was implemented, players could buy huge ammounts of mercs, bases and durgs in a matter of hours by farming encounters and buying their caps back with the crap.

[pistacja]

If your suggestion was implemented, players could buy huge ammounts of mercs, bases and durgs in a matter of hours by farming encounters and buying their caps back with the crap.

Not mercs and bases, only those NPC that run shops, like bartenders, doctors, some instructors that's it.

...anyway players still can buy huge ammounts of mercs, bases and durgs if they are in a big gang with millions of caps in the bank.

If we have something as ridiculous as a banks that don't give credit but allows anyone to have a account with a high interest rate, than why can't we have something as logical as not-vanishing-money?   

[avv]

Not mercs and bases, only those NPC that run shops, like bartenders, doctors, some instructors that's it.

...anyway players still can buy huge ammounts of mercs, bases and durgs if they are in a big gang with millions of caps in the bank.

They've fought for these caps with teamwork. That's what the game is supposed to encourage since it's multiplayer. Yet still, hauling farmed crap to shops is the core issue here, that's why shops lack caps in first place.

If we have something as ridiculous as a banks that don't give credit but allows anyone to have a account with a high interest rate, than why can't we have something as logical as not-vanishing-money?

It's not vanishing money. Maybe the npcs use the caps to buy more medicine, supplies and make up his living.

[vilaz]

Actually it looks like TC gangs have billions of caps and everyone out of TC have none.

[avv]

Actually it looks like TC gangs have billions of caps and everyone out of TC have none.

Not true. The caps are there, maybe not in ncr, hub or most safe towns. A minute ago I exchanged 4k caps at gordon's. There's a danger to get pk'd but that's another issue which is - according to Solar going to get fixed in form of more balanced builds. 

[vilaz]

Come on! With actual time consumed on walking over WM You can't get anywhere.

I'm usually trading in NCR-JT-HUB-Gun runners.

and don't tell me to use cars because i can't buy it I don't have caps for one!

[avv]

Come on! With actual time consumed on walking over WM You can't get anywhere.

I'm usually trading in NCR-JT-HUB-Gun runners.

and don't tell me to use cars because i can't buy it I don't have caps for one!

My point here is that game should reward player interaction, not solo farming. The activity where one player farms encounters alone and hauls everything in safe town shops provides nothing to the game world. Shopping in unsafe towns creates at least slight competition and player interaction despite all its problems (pks, campers, mindless murdering). Think of this issue here as unsafe mine issue we had last wipe and which still exist but players don't care since everything can be bought from shops. The theory behind unsafe shops/mines is alright but there's not enough features to support it so that it would work out nicely.

You want caps from safe towns? You need to deserve it by providing activity to the game world. Too bad we haven't got any system to allow this.

Other way would be to establish working player to player trade, so that you get caps from selling stuff that people actually need.

[vilaz]

My point here is that game should reward player interaction, not solo farming.

And it is... waaay to much. Following this - gangs who are powerfull will stay powerfull and people who are in smaller gangs or are loners are still fu*ked.

I might miss few things but I promise You that I will come back and spent more attention to topic later. Now I'm a bit in hurry. Also... I'll pay more attention to my grammar, sorry.

[avv]

And it is... waaay to much. Following this - gangs who are powerfull will stay powerfull and people who are in smaller gangs or are loners are still fu*ked.

Big gangs also provide most player interaction. Too bad it's mostly about slaughtering everyone but if the game encouraged other ways than only slaughtering people, they'd probably choose that part.

[pistacja]

It's not vanishing money. Maybe the npcs use the caps to buy more medicine, supplies and make up his living.

If he was to but medicine for those caps, the caps would reappear in the pocket of the person who sold that medicine. This is not the case.
 

Big gangs also provide most player interaction.

Right, to other big gangs and random soon-to-be-dead bluesuits  trying to mine/get profession/sell stuff. You get caps from TC and those caps appear out of thin air. You could argue that the caps come from taxes etc from NPC citizens, but that's brahmin guano. If a gang locks a town, and kills everyone on sight then there's no income for shopkeepers and suchlike because there's no-one to shop, buy good or services. A town under TC is like North Korea or the Soviet Union in the peak of Stalinism. A system like that dosen't spawn money on the hour every hour, it starves its citizens to death.     

My point here is that game should reward player interaction, not solo farming.

So lets scrap rewords from TC, lets scrap NPC vendors, quest rewards etc. If players want to trade let them trade among players and only players. That would reward (the hell out of) player interaction. It is actually plausible and has been done before (eg. SWGalaxies -100% player run economy, if you wanted a x-wing you made one or found someone who could build one for you).

 

[avv]

Right, to other big gangs and random soon-to-be-dead bluesuits  trying to mine/get profession/sell stuff. You get caps from TC and those caps appear out of thin air. You could argue that the caps come from taxes etc from NPC citizens, but that's brahmin guano. If a gang locks a town, and kills everyone on sight then there's no income for shopkeepers and suchlike because there's no-one to shop, buy good or services. A town under TC is like North Korea or the Soviet Union in the peak of Stalinism. A system like that dosen't spawn money on the hour every hour, it starves its citizens to death.

All the same where the tc reward caps come. Point is that they are reward from risking something and competing against other players, I never disagreed that the methods of doing so are bad.    

So lets scrap rewords from TC, lets scrap NPC vendors, quest rewards etc. If players want to trade let them trade among players and only players. That would reward (the hell out of) player interaction. It is actually plausible and has been done before (eg. SWGalaxies -100% player run economy, if you wanted a x-wing you made one or found someone who could build one for you).

I'd like to see more player - player trade aswell.

[kraskish]

*sigh*

Everybody knows hows the shops you visit like: tons of radios, and other non stackable items and of course no caps. Im so grateful for an economy one needs to camp or travel through many towns just to acquire currency, ironically though to travel fast enough one needs a car now (bought by caps you nor vendor has). The demand for caps raised with implementation of cars but supply remains constant and also, its almost impossible to find caps in southern towns at any time, which means you cant progress in game not risking being killed (caps are demanded like a basic thing but acquisition of it is troublesome). An one more thing... the economy is now, is not really player-based because of farmed weapons in shops....thats why I suggest following:


Either make some NPCs drop not weapons but caps or more of it or:


1) make a division of vendors in towns:

• Standard vendor- buys/sells only brand new items (excluding radios) and HAS caps replenishment - requires Ch3 (the oldest item disappears)
• Pawn shop vendor - buys/sells new and deteriorated items and DOESNT HAVE replenishment - requires Ch1

That way economy can be player-based. New items are crafted and crafters are rewarded by new items or caps. At standard vendor people could only pay with new items or caps, that way, we would have some real shop, caps would flow from players more often.


2) Profession trainers' fee could be paid in caps or items the NPC demands, for example:

Gunsmith lvl1 (1500 caps or:)

• 10mm pistol (0% det) x 2
• shotgun (0%) x 2
• 100 10mm JHP
• 100 slugs

Gunsmith lvl 2 (3000 caps or:)

• desert eagle x2
• Tommy Gun
• Grease gun
• 500 magnum FMJ

Gunsmith lvl 3 (4500 caps or:)

• Assault Rifle x2
• Combat Shotgun
• FN FAL
• 14mm AP x 500

Of course items could vary, so it would be like quest-like. The problem now is that when theres not enough caps you cant progress with the game, youre stuck (in other words, if you play in peak time = youre fucked)


3) Faster caps replenishment at vendors

I already wrote about that, but its one of the things that in combine with previous two points would make it even better:


4) NPCs buying all the shit for caps:

We could have vendors buying useless crap for caps. They would buy things for 5% of the value, so it would be like last resort to get caps. Im not in favor of this solution as it can increase caps superficially (but it would also destroy useless crap spammed at vendors)

5) More varied recyclable NPCs


I liked the idea in junktown NPC buying spears for 50 caps, just imagine radio seeker NPC!

6) ?? Your suggestions!



Delete the thread, I pasted my thoughts into another thread "Economy and currency"

[avv]

kraskish all those ideas of yours don't encourage multiplayer in any way. Only good of those is the "merchants only buy 0% det stuff". It would work alongside with good disassembling system. It wouldn't solve the solo farming, but there would be less crap in shops.

[HertogJan]

Some people play alone, others in groups.
Punishing people for playing solo is bullshit.

I am in a faction, roughly 10 people in total.
At the moment I appear to be the only one still playing.
So I should be punished for that?

This game has a golden rule: be paranoid and trust no one.
That doesn't incourage player interaction.
It's the result of this game being hard be design, something I don't think is wrong.

Perhaps the npc faction changes mentioned by devs might actually result in more player interaction from smaller gangs and loners.
Going to war with eachother and npcs to fight enemy npc factions, etc.

On a side note, I sold for 40k caps the last 2 hours simply by traveling the world map.