fodev.net
Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: chenzo on July 21, 2010, 12:01:00 am
-
I think some sort of optional new player support would be good. Like a vault that you get the option to enter when character is first created. The vault would basicly be a nice safe place for players to level up to a certain level without all the stress that causes most to leave Fonline 2238. Once you reach a set level ( lvl10 maybe ...or even lvl5 would help) you are sent away from the vault to start your travels(or you can leave earlier, but cant re-enter). Vault could have several quests that help explain a few game functions, Trainers to teach all Professions to lvl 1 , safe low level mining and crafting areas and pking and stealing disabled.
I cant see this would make any difference to the enjoyment of us higher level players, and would help new players get going and stick with the game longer. New players wouldnt beable to use it to craft high end weapons safely since trainers only teach lvl 1 and all players would be limited to leaving with only what they can carry.
-
Cities would become dead. I mean literally empty.
-
it's only for a short while anyways, they get kicked the fck out when they're lvl 5
-
Yeah , you could easily get to lvl 5 - 10 in one sitting as a new player if the atmosphere is safer and game alittle easier... At the moment it is a very cruel that new players just get thrown in with a bunch of players that have played to high levels, through several wipes. I for one would like to see new players staying with us longer and helping Fonline grow to its full potential.. rather then just seeing the same faction fighting for tc.. the same pkers annoying people and the same abuse that gets thrown at both the GMs and game developers by frustrated new players.
-
Cities would become dead. I mean literally empty.
how so? they cant stay in vaults forever, and if they need those professions to get, they're not in vault anyway.
-
how so? they cant stay in vaults forever, and if they need those professions to get, they're not in vault anyway.
Yeah maybe... I was just thinking about all these low-level players creating such a commotion in the NCR all the time. I don't know man, your idea of a "tutorial level" sounds reasonable enough, if it doesn't mess with demographics it should be implemented and left to stay I guess...
-
it would also force some player interactions and actually having to be able to know english, I know several player killers who don't know a single word.
-
I am not sure how keeping players in a vault is a good idea; I think it will actually demotivate new players. For example you are a new player and you accumulate items and caps and then finally on reaching level 5 or what not, you exit the vault, and because of your virginity to the wasteland you run into an unprotected town (you probably would not know about town preview since you stayed in the vault), and rage quit because everything you worked for is lost. Right now, for new players death doesn't mean much, because they don't lose anything on their deaths.
-
ye, one thing though... leveling up till vault to 5-10 lvl is too much, good side: theyll be atleast a bit more challenging to other people who are higher level (maybe, lol), bad side: they're gonna stay in vault for a veeery long time if they can level up there. (leveling up takes time too).
-
You assume that they will accumulate any vast amount of wealth while in the vault. Why would they? It's a vault, they don't even use currency most of the time within their own walls to my knowledge. Other than little knick-knacks that would help with doing miniature quests within the vault for xp and to teach how to use skills on items, maybe some possible functions of them, the vault shouldn't be giving them much when they leave anyway. Nothing, in truth.
Maybe if the idea reaches fruition specifics could be fleshed out and certain players may be able to work within the vault for a few caps before leaving, but it would not be much. Lvl 5 is too high as well, lvl 3 sounds more appropriate. And even then, they might get bored, not even reach lvl 3 but have learned everything and leave early.
Vault is about teaching some basics and hints to those who Want it before being kicked out on their ass, thus the lower lvl cap. People would be bored in there before 5 too I bet. It would also negate most of the need to always tell new players to go to ncr, too. Unless he was a dork, didn't know anything and still chose to skip the tutorial-vault. ::)
-
Fix for that : Make vault quests give more exp. After all you'll be learning from teachers instead of just stumbling around and finding it out for yourself, makes sense.
I support this idea.
-
i cant see that it would take player a long time to lvl. Not if there are quests within vault aimed at teaching game basics that reward with xp.. And crafting area will help lvl players.. nearly all new players start with a crafter and you can lvl crafters up fast even with basic resources. And lets face it , if they include alittle bit of info about leaving the vault it will reduce the shock of entering the wasteland and they will only have low end tech so it aint worth shit in the long run... Its more about preparing new players and giving them the skills and advice needed to progress in a less stressful way.
-
I like it. Any self-respecting MMO teaches people gameplay ingame because that's the best way for players to learn.
-
haha, i just thought that if they would get some cool starting loot when leaving, then there would be few gangs waiting in same World Map square for enc xD
-
You would have to be very careful making it unexploitable by assholes, like an instant banishment to the wasteland for any anti-social behaviour and if an honest player dies they respawn in the infirmary.
Wood, ore and minerals could come from a collapsed tunnel with some tree roots and rocks around the place.
...and hopefully by the time the player is level 3, or whatever is decided, they should have enough stuff to trade for 10 brahmin hides from a friendly caravan driver (who collects vault memorabilia) waiting outside the cave who will insist that the player buys some hides and break the fourth wall to explain how to right click and use science on the hides in an area free of resources.
Player: "Press 'I' to open inventory what does that mean? Right click the mouse.. what's a mouse?"
Driver: "Uhh what? Sorry I black out sometimes, what were we talking about?
Player: "Brahmin hides..."
-
I think this is the first beginner area idea that hasn't been completely hated. I like it too. I think the biggest bonus of this would be that players would be more likely to interact with each other at the beginning, meaning they'd hopefully have some people to trust once they got out for trading, partying and faction making.
If this were made mandatory for any character that isn't being remade (aka the character gets deleted and then recreated immediately), it might actually reduce the amount of alting. Not on a large scale, but I'm sure most people wouldn't bother making 20 alts because they'd have to go through the whole vault thing 20 times.
-
fuck that, Cities Really would have No N00bs in it,
The Ol' Lifestyle of N00bs is basicly boned
-
fuck that, Cities Really would have No N00bs in it,
The Ol' Lifestyle of N00bs is basicly boned
Is that post serious? Are you 12?
-
This is needed if fonline wants to be "normal" as a MMO
-
Once you reach a set level ( lvl10 maybe ...or even lvl5 would help) you are sent away from the vault to start your travels(or you can leave earlier, but cant re-enter).
That's fine
Vault could have several quests that help explain a few game functions
Ok, it's fair, unless you get a reward for completing these quests.
Trainers to teach all Professions to lvl 1
HELL, NO! Then tell me, what is the use of that profession lvl 1 if you get it right when you start the game?
safe low level mining
What is low-level mining area? This is no rune-scape, where you need a certain level to mine HQ iron ore. I say no to this.
and crafting areas
Fine with that
pking and stealing disabled.
PKing = you get kicked out
Stealing = disabled
Edit:
This is needed if fonline wants to be "normal" as a MMO
I don't get it what are you talking about, this is just an open beta and this isn't an MMO like others. I would say that this game is just hard for loners and that's it. Even the most smallest gangs can easily survive without whining.
-
No, the Vault should not be there to give them items and they should not leave with anything. There might be a variety of minor items used within the Vault itself however, ranging from Wrenches to normal Clubs, as that should be the extent of any weapons there. Any violation and attacking of players would result in a beating by said clubs by players and npc thugs alike ala Gestapo, then the body dumped into a river which washes the sap out into the wasteland. Or something.
Vault for teaching, not giving items, please remember this. And no, not teaching any professions, totally out of the question imo.
-
Finally we would have an explanation of these blue suits we are in.
Also, my vision is, when 3d comes, maybe we could choose where we start at the beginning?
1. Vault
There could be some beginning quests, where we learn the basics. Teachers would explain how to survive in wasteland. In one moment, at lvl 3-5 we would be somehow forced to leave the vault like in Fallout 1 or Fallout 3.
2. Tribal village(Arroyo like?)
Same as before. There could be a trial though and then we are forced to leave like in Fallout 2.
Both would have a tutorial, and...
3. In a cave, after a storm when you don't remember what happened before - just like we are starting now. No beginning quest, no safe start, this is for old players who already know how to survive. Of course everyone could choose option 1 and 2 if he wants to.
So people could choose to do the tutorial or not. And the base suit would be only blue for these, who started in the vault. Tribals would look like Sulik in example(Fallout 2), and option 3... We could think of something.
IMO there should be no items while leaving the vault.
Any violation and attacking of players would result in a beating by said clubs by players and npc thugs alike ala Gestapo, then the body dumped into a river which washes the sap out into the wasteland. Or something.
Nice! And then from point 1 where we didn't behave well, we go to point 3 without all the previous experience we could gather.
-
Finally we would have an explanation of these blue suits we are in.
Also, my vision is, when 3d comes, maybe we could choose where we start at the beginning?
1. Vault
There could be some beginning quests, where we learn the basics. Teachers would explain how to survive in wasteland. In one moment, at lvl 3-5 we would be somehow forced to leave the vault like in Fallout 1 or Fallout 3.
2. Tribal village(Arroyo like?)
Same as before. There could be a trial though and then we are forced to leave like in Fallout 2.
Both would have a tutorial, and...
3. In a cave, after a storm when you don't remember what happened before - just like we are starting now. No beginning quest, no safe start, this is for old players who already know how to survive. Of course everyone could choose option 1 and 2 if he wants to.
So people could choose to do the tutorial or not. And the base suit would be only blue for these, who started in the vault. Tribals would look like Sulik in example(Fallout 2), and option 3... We could think of something.
IMO there should be no items while leaving the vault.
Nice! And then from point 1 where we didn't behave well, we go to point 3 without all the previous experience we could gather.
This. Also, I don't think stealing should be disabled - it should just mean you get thrown out (same as with murder/fighting etc.) if you try and are caught. Low level characters wouldn't have enough Steal to make it worth trying, so it'd be the same as disabling, would possibly be easier to code and wouldn't break the immersion. The more I think about this suggestion, the more reasonable it seems.
-
I don't see why giving players some very basic gear when they leave is so bad. If the tutorial is long enough, and to get the basic gear you need to do every quest, there are much faster ways of farming.
I realise you could argue, 'But if they die as soon as they leave the Vault, they'll just make a new character to get fresh gear'. But if it's easier to make a new character and spend another 40-60 minutes doing the exact same quests than it is to get some basic gear then it's a problem with the crafting/loot system - not the starter area.
I'd rather the starter town is something besides a Vault, though. I'm just sick of Vaults.
-
[quote a
Edit:I don't get it what are you talking about, this is just an open beta and this isn't an MMO like others. I would say that this game is just hard for loners and that's it. Even the most smallest gangs can easily survive without whining.
Yep but you dont learn all that wisdom fast enough before you ditch such game in most cases. Many people quit. Ok it is not usual game, but why should it be unfriendly like others? More community = more fun
-
it isn't like it will become unbalanced if they get some basic gear when they leave, the rich will stay rich and the newbies will always die, sooner or later they all die.
-
Excuse me, but what is the purpose of this idea ? I read first post, and to me it sounds like "let's give every player a tent at level 1". It's not about vaults or anything :/ I don't know if giving every newcomer a safe place would be good. They wouldn't learn anything. Getting 10 brahmin hides is easy, to be honest, but it's still risky. And I think newcomers should learn that the wasteland is a dangerous place. Then, they would learn the value of life and items they have. Just my two cents.
-
Read the entire topic, Izual. Carefully.
-
We're supposed to react to first post ;)
-
Excuse me, but what is the purpose of this idea ? I read first post, and to me it sounds like "let's give every player a tent at level 1". It's not about vaults or anything :/ I don't know if giving every newcomer a safe place would be good. They wouldn't learn anything. Getting 10 brahmin hides is easy, to be honest, but it's still risky. And I think newcomers should learn that the wasteland is a dangerous place. Then, they would learn the value of life and items they have. Just my two cents.
Well maybe in such Vault a newbie could kill slowly respawnable brahim once in a while or collect 10 brahmin hides and then it would be as getaway ticket out of the vault. I mean there could be a Vault/labyrinth that could let a player through rooms/levels only if a player does this or that like kill one ant/brahmin or 10 of them and bring their skins which will be given back to the quest givers. Its just all about informing people about possibilities.
I also supposed similar Temple of Trials but if it will be called Vault what the hell, let be it xD
-
why not just call it Huntington?
-
Ok, let me say it again: The Vault is not there to give the new player starting items. Say it again with me. Ok? Done.
It is there to Teach, if they want to learn it and require it. That is the point of a tutorial. Hides can be gained easily outside of the vault, or in a friendly town like NCR if one simply asks. Heck, now with moving boxes, its easy as ever to pay for them if people ask for payment.
Now say it again: The Vault does not give you stuff, the Vault gives you knowledge. >:(
-
If you want to go with the brahmin hunting quest idea, you can just swap the location, instead of vault it being a slaughterhouse...
-
Also remember, having a tent is optional, it's just a feature and not mustbe, I've even got a char on 21 lvl that doesn't have a tent because it doesn't need it...
-
If you want to go with the brahmin hunting quest idea, you can just swap the location, instead of vault it being a slaughterhouse...
I mean all the hides starting from 10 would be taken by the NPC guy who would let you go to another level.
And if its possible exp points would get back to normal after or every player would have its own vault with 1 or 10 brahmins there and the task would be to bring a brahmin hide to NPC to go further.
-
Finally we would have an explanation of these blue suits we are in.
Also, my vision is, when 3d comes, maybe we could choose where we start at the beginning?
1. Vault
There could be some beginning quests, where we learn the basics. Teachers would explain how to survive in wasteland. In one moment, at lvl 3-5 we would be somehow forced to leave the vault like in Fallout 1 or Fallout 3.
2. Tribal village(Arroyo like?)
Same as before. There could be a trial though and then we are forced to leave like in Fallout 2.
Both would have a tutorial, and...
3. In a cave, after a storm when you don't remember what happened before - just like we are starting now. No beginning quest, no safe start, this is for old players who already know how to survive. Of course everyone could choose option 1 and 2 if he wants to.
So people could choose to do the tutorial or not.
I'm very sorry, but this is the worst idea ever. Think about people making power builds or totally anything else, they get enough high level and go out in the wastes, now tell me, what is the use of number 3 if in option 1 and 2 you can get free exp, while others who choose 3 have to get their level 5 killing critters and crafting.
-
Because the already experienced players know how to survive without being constantly killed other then the people option and 2 is aimed for?
-
I'm sure the very experienced players won't be likely to do the looong and boooring(for these who already know such things) tutorial.
-
I'm sure the very experienced players won't be likely to do the looong and boooring(for these who already know such things) tutorial.
Call it anti-alt policy?
-
Vault for starting players? Great idea!
It could be a tutorial area that will teach the basic survival through few starting quests(that will give exp)
Possible list of quests:
(The player should not be able to leave the quest group at any point- If dead he should respawn inside the vault)
1. Crafting quest:
- Travel with a group of vault guards(escort) to neariest mine(cannot leave group - TRAIN LIKE)
- Mine some resources
- Bring them back to vault and refine
- Craft the item and give to the quest giver to recive exp
2. Hunting quest
- Travel with a group of vault guards on a quest to obtain brahmin meat and hides and gecko pelts and get some fibre(this part will show lowbies where to get hides for tents, hunt small game and obtain fibres)
- The player helps to hunt brahmins and geckos(The player recive basic weapon of choice through dialog)
- When the player gathers 10 brahmin hides, 5 gecko pelts and 10 fibre, the group will travel back to vault(option in dialog when desired items are in inventory)
- The player returns 9 Brahmin hides and 3 gecko pelts and 9 fibre, and quest giver teaches him what could he possibly do with 10 hides and other stuff(a tent and armors etc). Exp reward
3. Making a jacker quest.
- The player is requested to make a leather jacket off items he obtained on previous quest.
- The player recive exp reward and gets to keep his jacket
4. Quest to learn about professions.
- Profession tutorial(school like)
- Simple quiz that will check gained knowledge about professions(required stats, possible crafting, etc)
- Reward: First level of desired profession, Exp Reward
5. Rat problem quest.
- Player recives a solo quest to kill some rats in the basement
- Once again the player will recive a basic weapon of choice through dialog
- Once completed he will recive Exp reward and gets to keep his basic weapon
6. Scouting and survival quest.
- Player once again will travel with a group of Vault guards
- They will teach him about basic survival
- Once the group arrives to NCR, the group will trigger town preview
- After that they will attempt to return to the vault but will get involved in an encounter with ghoul crazies or deathclaws(example).
- The player will be forced to run away or he will die like vault guards(and respawn in the vault again and re-do the quest)
- that way player will learn that sometimes it's simply better to run(one of the guard will shout RUN to the player)
- Once he ran out of mentioned encounter, exp reward will be given and the player won't be able to get back to the vault(dropped near Hub for example)
Note:
- Inside vault PVP and stealing should be disabled
-these 6 quest should be sufficent to provide the player with exp ammount that would be enough to reach 5-6 level(depending on ammount of killed creatures within previous quests)
- Vault travelling group cannot be encountered by other players or encounter other player
- Exit grids during all travelling quests except quest 6 should be disabled.
- Summing vault item rewards: player will leave "be kicked" out of vault area with just Leather Jacker, Weapon of choice and some ammo, a knife, (and maybe a survival guide that would tell him to make a tent first)
- One travelling group spawned for each player(so if they get killed(or player get killed) for some reason, it should not block from re-taking the quest)
-
I'd say that covers all the basics.
Wait, maybe add dog/guy who accompanies you on a combat mission to teach you about companions/the alt menu.
-
I'd say that covers all the basics.
Wait, maybe add dog/guy who accompanies you on a combat mission to teach you about companions/the alt menu.
Hmm a dog during hunting quest wouldnt be a bad idea :]
-
Maybe they get to keep the dog when they go into the wasteland. And then when they watch their furry companion die forever, the inhospitality of the wasteland will never be forgotten.
-
Maybe they get to keep the dog when they go into the wasteland. And then when they watch their furry companion die forever, the inhospitality of the wasteland will never be forgotten.
Well another great idea! Dogs have good outdoorsman, so that would help low level players in travelling)
-
Well, the problem in Drakonis' idea is, that player will be forced to visit NCR through quest, and that will make him think that NCR is the "starter city" which is wrong. NCR isn't very safe :P
In my opinion the vault should be CLOSED! The people inside shouldn't know anything about the wasteland, except these few(NPCs with their story) who came from outside to live in the vault and now are teaching you by giving you quests. In one moment, some bad things are going to happen in the vault and you will be forced to leave it - look at Fallout 1 and 3.
Yes, there should be a way to gather resources so new players can learn how to craft stuff - but that should be some collapsed tunnel reachable from the vault or anything. Same with hunting.
The idea is that a new player doesn't know details about cities on wasteland, but when getting out of vault, someone should mark a few of them on the map, though there will be nothing like you visiting NCR before you got out of the Vault - that would discriminate other cities.
Call it anti-alt policy?
Dunno, well, not really, as I presented my vision there would be an option without tutorial.
Start as a vault citizen(+outcast)/tribal(+outcast)/someone with a memory loss.
-
Its all about teaching new players, its easy to say "getting hides is easy" or "its not hard to level up" , but we have played fonline wipe after wipe and have built up such knowledge over time, and most of us are older and played Wasteland , Fallout and fallout 2 loads, so had a basic idea of what to expect in the wastes. But imagine if you've never played one of the good fallout games or Wasteland, never played a game with a system like the SPECIAL system.. Tis game would seem so daunting and unfriendly to players like that and it just puts them off playing. This games growing rapidly and new features are added often, which means players have to get to grips with more and more stuff.. If i was starting out playing Fonline at the stage it is now, i think id probably just get confused as fuck and quit straight away. Many players have noticed that something needs to be done to make Fonline more accommodating to new players, and many have tried to do player run programs that are aimed towards this goal. All player run efforts have failed so far due to a small number of players that dont seem to want new players joining there little world and i know of hundreds of players that have left because they just could not figure out the games basics and i also have several rl friends that wont even try the game because they have heard its a waste of time. The player base for this game is pretty sad really.. we get new players some times but only a few stay with us for longer then a week , most the long term players just want to kill bluesuits and rob people because they are bord of having to build stuff for themselves and anyone that does try and help players ends up being screwed over by a player that doesnt need help but just wants to make sure others cant get help either.
Izual said in an earlier reply
I think newcomers should learn that the wasteland is a dangerous place. Then, they would learn the value of life and items they have. Just my two cents.
but how is this possible when you just respawn after death ... there is no value of life in this game... just the value of items x boredom of other players
-
Well, the problem in Drakonis' idea is, that player will be forced to visit NCR through quest, and that will make him think that NCR is the "starter city" which is wrong. NCR isn't very safe :P
In my opinion the vault should be CLOSED! The people inside shouldn't know anything about the wasteland, except these few(NPCs with their story) who came from outside to live in the vault and now are teaching you by giving you quests. In one moment, some bad things are going to happen in the vault and you will be forced to leave it - look at Fallout 1 and 3.
Yes, there should be a way to gather resources so new players can learn how to craft stuff - but that should be some collapsed tunnel reachable from the vault or anything. Same with hunting.
The idea is that a new player doesn't know details about cities on wasteland, but when getting out of vault, someone should mark a few of them on the map, though there will be nothing like you visiting NCR before you got out of the Vault - that would discriminate other cities.
Dunno, well, not really, as I presented my vision there would be an option without tutorial.
Start as a vault citizen(+outcast)/tribal(+outcast)/someone with a memory loss.
hmm not sure if troll... but ah well
Just put HUB instead of NCR
Getting practical knowledge about the world after the tutorial? We have it now... just without the tutorial, where the player is right away thrown to a deep water- ready to drown.
Option without tutorial? Nah- its free exp and basic gear, everybody should do it, while it would work as a minor alt disencourage.- Making it not optional is a perfect solution imo. Only the people that are creating an alt(and are propably rich in hi mid tier stuff) will be wanting to skip the tutorial(SKIP SKIP- I WANNA START CRAFTING WITH MAH CRAFTER ALT GODDAMNIT, STEAL WITH STEAL ALT ARGH)
-
love the idea... that's all
-
I am not sure how keeping players in a vault is a good idea; I think it will actually demotivate new players. For example you are a new player and you accumulate items and caps and then finally on reaching level 5 or what not, you exit the vault, and because of your virginity to the wasteland you run into an unprotected town (you probably would not know about town preview since you stayed in the vault), and rage quit because everything you worked for is lost. Right now, for new players death doesn't mean much, because they don't lose anything on their deaths.
Yes.
-
Of course they'll be disappointed the first time they die. But this time, they'll know enough about the game world and be high enough level to get back on their feet.
As it is now, they die and they'll get dumped on the other side of the map. I'm pretty sure that'll kill the motivation of new players. You're in the NCR, it has quests, a lot of other players, but OOP. You died. Welcome to Gecko.
Edit: Moved rest of post to more relevant thread.
-
The Vault stage is meant to ease players into the game which should include it's harsher sides. I agree that it is pointless if the vault learning curve serves no other purpose than to shelter the character from the outside world, but i think the idea is more to prepare them for it. So, since your trainers are all ex-wastelanders who know of its dangers and who have come here to get away from it, I would think that they would be training you for survival, giving you only what you need in order to surivive the waste.
as mentioned earning a level in a profesion is very useful in this way, teaching the character how to fish as opposed to giving them a fish they will loose as soon as they die for the first time in the waste. In this sense one really shouldnt gain many more possesions in the vault than one can in NCR already, after all, how much can the vault really afford to give away to begin with? but if the player has been taught to build and help themselves then loosing what they did emerge with wont be a huge issue as they already know they can reaccumulate everything on their own.
also they are not being kept in the vault, the original idea was that it would be optional from the get go and they can leave at anytime.
I and everyone else playing this game right now knows that the wasteland is a harsh place (much harsher than in the original game) and I for one would probably not be playing anymore if it wasnt for the help of the Wiki and my love of fallout which made me persistent to begin with. however while the Wiki is extremely useful i think that there can be a more organic way of being introduced to the new concepts of the game, through the game, instead of having to refer to a website continually.
-
Of course they'll be disappointed the first time they die. But this time, they'll know enough about the game world and be high enough level to get back on their feet.
I disagree, the most evident problems for a new player (at least it was for me), were: how does one avoid death from PKers and robberies from thieves, how to maximize experience from mobs/crafting and how to a make a proper build. None of these things could be learned in the vault because PKing/thieving are disabled and you are in a vault. Learning to mine and craft are extreme trivial matters, I mean how hard is it to use a hammer on rocks and press the fix button. In most MMOs I played I get really bored with the introduction quests, because they treat you like an individual with mental retardation.
-
I disagree, the most evident problems for a new player (at least it was for me), were:
But I'd point out that we both stuck with the game. I'm sure more didn't. It would be actually be worth finding out why players don't stick with the game more than anything.
What we think puts off new players is just conjecture. I don't know how we get a decent idea of why new players give up.
-
True, but creating an ideal "newbie zone", whatever it maybe be, would be, no doubt, starkly different than the wasteland. Instead if a newbie zone is created it should give the player a nice segue into the wasteland.