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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lordus on July 15, 2010, 03:37:30 pm
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Hello,
at first, i have to tell, that i know, that suggestions are almost absolutely useless, because nobody from devs want implement it. It is not a flame, but statement of fact. But i believe, that some changes of existing features are possible.
As i said before, from my point of view TC is kind of beacon. If you are capturing the city, it means: "Hello enemy, we are here, we want to fight". In this era is this more truth, because you have to stay in capture area in the city. Nobody believes now, that this TC with militia helps bring some kind of peace to northern cities.
Problem is, that this kind of TC is better for bigger factions. Actually, it is good only for bigger factions. If you play in small team (5 players) and you want to capture the city, you have to stay in some area and wait. 25 minutes is long enough to enemy team regrouping and you wait for deadly wave of enemy players.. I dont think that setting different cooldown time will solute THIS problem, because on one side you will have time to make this big regroup, on second side, you will have not enough time to make any counter action.
So i am suggesting:
Make an alternative for this current TC system.. I like the progress you made, so there is no need to erase it at all. There can exist different "team PvP beacon minigames" at one time.
I dont know exactly what kind of TPvPbeacon you should implement, but i can imagine 2 basic ways of aproach:
1) "Elimination" of bigger gangs from small team PvP (by information embargo)
There will not be public beacon, like now is, but you will get info about enemy achieving the objectives (capturing or whatever) by radio or by direct screen info (only to specific gang). So only previous possesor of objectives will see, which team is trying to taking it and this will be kind of 1vs1 team PvP action. Different from current state is, that you would not start a beacon, that will attract 20+ players gangs, but you will be able to manage private fight.. if enemy (actualy taking objectives) will be stronger than you, you will have no obligation to join the battle. But if you will see, that small, unknown gang is trying to capture the objectives, you would be able to fight them, with no fear that 20+ player gang is waiting over the map.
2) David(s) and Goliath
Currently, TC is battle for some territory (city + resources) among two or more factions. Bigger factions is more likely winning. So lets make special type of TC: Big factions will have periodicaly (every day), repeatedly "capturing" the objectives, because they will lose it benefit after one day. If they will succed, they will get their reward and capturing(achieving obj.) will be avaible next day. The role for small gangs will be not in capture of the same objectives, but to prevent the bigger team of capture his objectives. So big team 20+ will try to achieve his objetives, but if that team fail because small gang will prevent it, smal gang will get reward instead of bigger gang (not the same, lower, but stil atractive reward). It is neccesary, that big team will have to do some chain of multiple actions, unsucces in one is absolut fail. Actions on different place in different cities.
I know that what i described is abstract, so i will try to write down examples, but feel free and post better ones, using the same logic and system.:
I.e.: "New Reno drug dealership"
Bros Gang needs to invest at least 15k (30?,50?100?) caps to start this kind game. The result is, that if they succed, they will earn many drugs, booze, whores whatever.. . At first, they have to kill all dealers on streets. If they will fail in this sub objective, they will fail in all objective. Dealers, after killing of first, will have their own cooldown, then they will left the city. So if Bros wants to achieve objectives, they have to split themselfs on the streets (opprotunity for other gangs).
Then, they have to find in the city stranger - drug dealer - and protect him. This new drug dealer will have to go to major bars in the city, persuading the owners for new source of drugs. He will be kind of NPC guard with the same possibility of remoting as a slave. (so big gang will need player with charisma => -1 pure pvp char in big team). Enemy team should attack NPC, or player with charisma. If Bros will have only one charisma player, and he will die, this will lower their odds.
Next step is... i dont know, if i need to continue.. There should be a part, that you have to bring one random special thing in some time to some place (condoms, cats pawn, ....) - you will know, that you can buy it in 3 shops in the wasteland, so you can guard every, or risk and guard only one,..., you will have to defend 2 objectives in one time in two different cities, .... .
So, what do you think?
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I think the answer to an alternative PvP is NPC factions and a different system. TC could remain for the organised gangs and be cutthroat and the alternative system for smaller gangs, loners, new players (and even some of the gangs if they want).
Hopefully some kind of demonstration version of it will be ready before *too* long 8)
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I think the answer to an alternative PvP is NPC factions and a different system.
+1
Hopefully some kind of demonstration version of it will be ready before *too* long
+100 :D
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Smaller gangs do need to be able to actually be a gang...
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Be realistic. This project will not attract much more new players.. Fallout is old game .. so priority is to hold current players.
Current TC Beacon disable low equip, hit and run, tactics.. Tell me, how 5-7 player big faction can resist rush of 10+ enemy with drugs.. Current TC reduce tactic variability to value zero..
Give us more entertaiment opportunities in gang vs gang PvP actions..
Now, 5 vsb players tried to engage cca 12 enemy in Klamath, we could not kill them all, but if there will be any oportunity, secondary objectives...
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What's the advantage to having TC based in towns? As opposed to separate locations by the towns.
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I think the answer to an alternative PvP is NPC factions and a different system. TC could remain for the organised gangs and be cutthroat and the alternative system for smaller gangs, loners, new players (and even some of the gangs if they want).
Hopefully some kind of demonstration version of it will be ready before *too* long 8)
These will be outside of towns, in self contained areas. (They have to be self contained areas because they would be using free equipment).
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These will be outside of towns, in self contained areas. (They have to be self contained areas because they would be using free equipment).
I don't know all the details of this alternative system to TC, but I know from previous games that no penalty on death (in FOnline the penalty is dropping all your items) gets boring. As a solo player I would prefer using my own equipment for PvP (really its pretty easy to equip yourself).
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There would be factional penalties for failure. But anyway, might aswell wait til its ready.
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There would be factional penalties for failure. But anyway, might aswell wait til its ready.
So there will exist special "arenas" for team PvP? do you realize, that we like the possibility to fight in cities, where are civilists, risk of own stuff adds adrenaline to the fight, ... i dont think that many players will like "syntetic, free equipment arenas" => this is not fallout
I know that devs dont want to create pure pvp server, but i think, if they wil spend some time in teams during pvp, on their voice channels, like observers, they will make feauteres more for them, not against them.. look how many players now playing fonline are pvp players.. i think this is core of the sever..
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But anyway, might aswell wait til its ready.
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look how many players now playing fonline are pvp players.. i think this is core of the sever..
Yes because we have not much other oportunities. I think that players play the game with what developers give them.
They gave us full loot and TC so we play PvP... With other solutions we would play other way.
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Yes because we have not much other oportunities. I think that players play the game with what developers give them.
They gave us full loot and TC so we play PvP... With other solutions we would play other way.
or another game..
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At this moment we have only 4-5 players on mumble.. We want to engage enemy, but we cant capture the city (too many militia, too many enemies).
Lets make this beacon: it will take 5 finutes from start to end.
In big city, like Klamath, you will have to escort one npc from one side of the city to another..
1) You will speak to npc... he will have predefined patch ways, but you will always have possibility to choose at least 2 of them. He will not run to the end of city at one time, but he will stop in some places (house, streets) and wait for your next instructions. There can be cca 3-5 wait points.
2) If he die, you loose, if he survive and leave the city, you win and you will be awarded with some minor stuff.
This is kind of beacon, different than TC, for another purpose: few players wants to engage few enemy, not 15+ fulll stuff druged hugarians barbarians.
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-1000000000
current TC system was created veery correctly and Lordus you play at CBT to test it and your team say it's good system so wtf you talking about?
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-1000000000
current TC system was created veery correctly and Lordus you play at CBT to test it and your team say it's good system so wtf you talking about?
1) This idea is not about replacement of current TC, this idea is about complemention (i hope i use right word) of current system, where we have 3-5 players that want fight with enemy, but we cant engage them, because during 25 minutes cooldown they will arive in bigger numbers that we have (also we are unable to kill militia with 3-5 players). This "beacons" should exist together, even in one city.
2) Beta test of system is one thing, but after few weeks of this current TB we know about negatives:
a) we have to wait for long time and sometimes enemy does not come.. this is absurd.. wait for almost half an hour and then nothing (if this system would be on pay per play servers, they will blow up the serves => i know that this is not PPP game, but we dont need to be bored for such long time
b) teams are glued (sticked) to one position in the each city, fight is not about tactics, it is about superiority and good drug taking timing
c) this system helps gangs with alts.. 25 minute is long time for bring 2 chars to location and you dont need to violate dual log or fast relog rule, but you can use this advantage (i.e.: Gecko reactor: attacking team could attack five minutes before the end of coundown, half of his chars are killed, but after 3 minutes, they can legaly relog and kill all in the reactor in second attack wave)
Why there should not exist 2 systems of TC? And some minor "beacons"?
Do you think, that "team PvP only arenas" near cities will solve the problem, where one gang have 5 players ready to fight, and other have 12 players? So the rest 7 players will not play?
You know, i understand that this is not our project, but you spend very long time in creating and coding new PvP team system without any interaction with active PvP players now (maybe i am wrong, but nobody from VSB/Hawks (oldest active team in fonline) were spoken..
P.S.:
in 5 people you can easly kill militia 3 big gunners 2 snipers ;)
Maybe yes, maybe not.. today we had cca 5 players, no BG were active, you know, we have players in team, who were on start of this project, then they left (like me) for some weeks/months/eras and they came back, but most of them does not play this like before, and one combat char without drugs is maximum time they can spend.. (like me, and i dont use even my own char ..shame :(( ).
PvP evolve during 4 eras rapidly (1. era: minority of bigguners , 2. majority of biggunners, minority of drug users, 3. drugs are more common, 4. you are f..d without drugs) to state, where powerbuilds are essential. And currentTC is made only for this class of players.
It is not whining, it is matter of fact.
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in 5 people you can easly kill militia 3 big gunners 2 snipers ;)
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in 5 people you can easly kill militia 3 big gunners 2 snipers ;)
I've often kill the militia alone or with a friend, just a good spot, drug and a shitload of ammo is enough.
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yup but 3 big gunners and 2 snipers is faster ;)
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At this moment we have only 4-5 players on mumble.. We want to engage enemy, but we cant capture the city (too many militia, too many enemies).
now u know ....
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I've often kill the militia alone or with a friend, just a good spot, drug and a shitload of ammo is enough.
but i have to repeat, this does not solve the main problem... of course, we can kill militia with bbgun and mellee tandem fighters, but then we will wait for 25 minutes until wave of 15 red dots will arive and kill us.
P.S.: at friday, when we showed you, red dots, how does taste when you are swarmed by numerous enemy, we captured last city: Redding. But we had there only 8-9 players (instead of 28 in the Den), so we knew, that the TC action was almost suicide. But you did not came. I dont want to start flame, seriously, but i think that it was because you had not info about fact that more than half of our alli were gone, and also, you were not stupid to attack numerous enemy. And this is the problem i described before..
P.P.S.: thx for Den battle ;)
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Last time (I don't remeber what's day it was) we take city in 6 people ;) but it was shitty time to play only one BBS scout the city ;p