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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: xanister on June 13, 2010, 08:36:45 pm
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I think if disassembling was a little more reliable, especially for low tier weapons, we might not have 500 shotguns at every trader. I have a 120% science, I know it could be better, but I might get A metal part from a shotgun or hunting rifle, but rarely and only that. If we got more out of it people might actually use disassemble and our traders might have a little more space for everything else.
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Its on the long todo list.
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Its on the long todo list.
Does this include letting HQ mats be obtained from Science?
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Does this include letting HQ mats be obtained from Science?
Actually, that would prevent spamming the vendors up with items, because they would be BOUGHT with CAPS to disassemble them. Talking about the trading system, Solar, right now the traders are just the sink for items and a cap source.
If the disassembly chance is capped is 50/50 at 100%Science (to prevent 300% Science alts), so there will be still action at unguarded mines and a lot of people will have a chance to get an occasional good metal part without getting humiliated - they just have to fill the vendor with some caps.
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Actually, that would prevent spamming the vendors up with items, because they would be BOUGHT with CAPS to disassemble them. Talking about the trading system, Solar, right now the traders are just the sink for items and a cap source.
If the disassembly chance is capped is 50/50 at 100%Science (to prevent 300% Science alts), so there will be still action at unguarded mines and a lot of people will have a chance to get an occasional good metal part without getting humiliated - they just have to fill the vendor with some caps.
Actually thats genius. It would be awesome to obtain HQ stuff from high-tier items. And i kinda lol'd @ ''action'' in unguarded mines. You mean the endless blood/gutfest of miner slaughter?
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You mean the endless blood/gutfest of miner slaughter?
Yes, because it can't be considered PvP. And thanks for the compliment.
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Of course it is a change for good, Id like to see some max cap at the chance of disassembling so as not to create alts... seriously no one seriously playing a game would have science high enough to normally play with his main character...
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Actually, that would prevent spamming the vendors up with items, because they would be BOUGHT with CAPS to disassemble them. Talking about the trading system, Solar, right now the traders are just the sink for items and a cap source.
If the disassembly chance is capped is 50/50 at 100%Science (to prevent 300% Science alts), so there will be still action at unguarded mines and a lot of people will have a chance to get an occasional good metal part without getting humiliated - they just have to fill the vendor with some caps.
thats... an awesome idea! This is what we need!
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thats... an awesome idea! This is what we need!
Well, and what if they will sell their shit stuff? We wont be able to buy anything good... We dont need only caps we need things to buy as well
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I'm not certain exactly how it will work, but I see no problem will allowing the HQ materials used in crafting an item to be gained form it when disassembled. Of course you wouldn't be getting back 100% of these materials anyway.
Talking about the trading system, Solar, right now the traders are just the sink for items and a cap source.
It may susrprise you, but this isn't actually true. Traders buy and sell an increadible amount of things already.
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I'm not certain exactly how it will work, but I see no problem will allowing the HQ materials used in crafting an item to be gained form it when disassembled. Of course you wouldn't be getting back 100% of these materials anyway.
That's nice to hear. Also, it wasn't intended to be a total recycling - otherwise the gangs won't even sell their stuff, as Kraskish pointed out. A possible solution to this problem would be deteroriating the price of the weapon until it undergo the cost of a good metal part - then you would need a supertool kit to repair it to the disassembling value.
As i noticed, the supertool kit is deteroriating as well or has some kind of "ammo" until it vanishes.
So the dilemma will be: should we waste a part of the supertool to get a chance to get a HQ part, repair it better completely OR sell this almost broken bazooka for some caps at the vendor, so some player can buy it later?
It may susrprise you, but this isn't actually true. Traders buy and sell an increadible amount of things already.
That would depend on demand. And most demanded things, like caps and ammo requiring HQ gunpowder are deficit, while it's not a problem to trade some crafted ammo for a used minigun. That's the point - nobody wants the junk weapon, if one can craft it and that's why the vendors are full of sold crap (sometimes literally). A possible HQ/electronic part would rise the interest and disburden vendor inventories from all that broken Assault Rifles and radios - i'm sure that was Xanister' intention.
thats... an awesome idea! This is what we need!
Tribute goes to Xanister and Dishonest Abe, i merely developed their ideas further.
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I think I might have missed something here, is there something other than updating dismantling from last wipes version to reflect the new recipes? :-\
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I think I might have missed something here, is there something other than updating dismantling from last wipes version to reflect the new recipes? :-\
Well, you have only low quality mat, but before wipe you could obtain an interesting amount with enough science, ATM even with lot of science, you don't obtain enough material, and only low quality.
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Well, yes, before the wipe there was no such thing as high quality materials so there wouldn't be ;)
The system we have now is a strange mix of 2 versions that was never quite finished and now needs to be redone totally to reflect the crafting we have now.
Its always been intended to serve as an alternative/addition to gathering materials, but as I say, the todo list is long so we will have to wait and see when it gets fixed.
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I think it would be a good idea to pump-up a little this sugestion with the idea that detoriatated items that were sold to vendors, would regenerate their detoriation level with time. (vendors could do some fixing in their free time or so to speak :P)
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Well, yes, before the wipe there was no such thing as high quality materials so there wouldn't be ;)
The system we have now is a strange mix of 2 versions that was never quite finished and now needs to be redone totally to reflect the crafting we have now.
Thanks for clarifying that. And what are the main problems at obtaining crafting materials from your point of view?
Is it just that the players want ONLY the high-tier gear?
Its always been intended to serve as an alternative/addition to gathering materials, but as I say, the todo list is long so we will have to wait and see when it gets fixed.
Why don't you publish the todo list (or a part of it) and see if the community can help with possible solutions? Concerning suggestions, it's always the player who wants something implemented - but how about otherwise?
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Thanks for clarifying that. And what are the main problems at obtaining crafting materials from your point of view?
Is it just that the players want ONLY the high-tier gear?
Hm, I don't follow the question.
Why don't you publish the todo list (or a part of it) and see if the community can help with possible solutions? Concerning suggestions, it's always the player who wants something implemented - but how about otherwise?
When theres a specific issue that we need player input for we ask, like the new TC system. For most other things asking the players what they think would just make a long process even longer. They get their say when a system is done and ready for testing.
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also i think some weapons are bugged. For example i never get materials even from 0% shotgun or mauser with 180% science :/
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Hm, I don't follow the question.
Asking your opinion about the difference between what you wanted and what you achieved with introducion of HQ materials for high-tier stuff.
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Ah, it was meant to create a place where players had to interact with other players whilst crafting. If that interaction was shooting them in the face with a minigun or forming co-operative parties to protect each other from PKs I didn't care.
The guarded stuff remained so that players had an easier alternative if they prefered it.
I think its worked reasonably well, should be extended next time.
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Ah, it was meant to create a place where players had to interact with other players whilst crafting. If that interaction was shooting them in the face with a minigun or forming co-operative parties to protect each other from PKs I didn't care.
The guarded stuff remained so that players had an easier alternative if they prefered it.
I think its worked reasonably well, should be extended next time.
That means the stronger will get stronger, weak ones will RP moving targets, again and again, without getting a safe alternative.
Sounds like you did it out of spite for the playerbase. ;D
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I think most people would agree crafting is on the whole a lot easier now. The fact you have to risk a little bit in order to get the high quality stuf isnt that harsh a feature.
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I think most people would agree crafting is on the whole a lot easier now. The fact you have to risk a little bit in order to get the high quality stuf isnt that harsh a feature.
Well i guess you right about easier crafting, compared to pre-wipe.
However, why are you so strict about the unguarded mines for being the ONLY way to get HQ materials? I mean, for equipping a faction with enough ammo will or course require a raid on a unguarded mine.
But a single player who don't want to get killed could spend more time by searching for a caravan to get two or three chunks of HQ minerals...and yet will be eventually convinced to risk a quick visit to Broken Hills.
It's only matter of choice - spending time (and risk their money) searching for a caravan with decent amount of mats or risk a visit to Gecko/Redding/Broken Hills - you will also have an excuse for those players moaning about BK at unguarded mines, like myself ;D
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I think most people would agree crafting is on the whole a lot easier now. The fact you have to risk a little bit in order to get the high quality stuf isnt that harsh a feature.
Well, personally, i agree GATHERING is easyer and less time-consuming even if theres d00ds camping the HQ mines (havent had much problems with em), but the CRAFTING ITSELF (wich i find ridiculous) is epic'ly time-consuming. Even more than the gathering itself. All i mean with crafting is that stupid bum stading near workbench, taking books out of, pick materials off the ground, name what you want and ESPECIALLY the top crafting process. The retarded ''item''->''fix''->''done''->''item''->''fix''->''done''->''item''->''fix''->''done''-> cycle. You, Solar, probably will say ''ooh, yeah, thats so hardcore, few extra clicks'', but it aint so funny when you're about to craft 100 gunpowders of healing powders :-\
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You, Solar, probably will say ''ooh, yeah, thats so hardcore, few extra clicks'', but it aint so funny when you're about to craft 100 gunpowders of healing powders
No, I hate it. The reason I got into being a Dev here was because I was nosing around asking about the crafting system mpnths before the beta test started, so you can imagine that I'm a fan of crafting when I'm playing too.
That item->fix->done cycle is very annoying indeed.
However, why are you so strict about the unguarded mines for being the ONLY way to get HQ materials? I mean, for equipping a faction with enough ammo will or course require a raid on a unguarded mine.
Because the only thing that makes the system is the need for lots of people to go there. The fewer that visit, the less interaction. More interaction is a good thing.
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Because the only thing that makes the system is the need for lots of people to go there. The fewer that visit, the less interaction. More interaction is a good thing.
You speak of interaction.
Do you speak of interaction, like trading mined HQ materials for ammo?
Before we slide into offtopic, so you won't even allow small, unprofitable alternatives to get HQ materials (like buying them from vendors or through disassembling expensive weapons), because you want the sole players suffer from the disadvantage of not being in the gang, thus encouraging them to join a faction, which supports him at mining.
Is that correct?
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I'm not certain exactly how it will work, but I see no problem will allowing the HQ materials used in crafting an item to be gained form it when disassembled.
I said the exact opposite earlier in the thread. Of course high tech stuff would be harder to come by when this is the case, right now you would just see an absolute flood of HQ materials from encounters.
But no, I don't see any reason why a new player should have easy access to high tech technology. There are ways to exist without crafting high tech technology and the option is always there to improve. I don't see why someone thats just signed up should have access to the same kind of things as people who are organised and have spent a long time on the game - be they gangs or loners. Theres nothing stopping them organising themselves in a similar fashion.
High tech stuff could do with becoming somewhat more precious on here, in my view. Not everyman and his dog should be walking round with tier 2+ stuff.
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I said the exact opposite earlier in the thread. Of course high tech stuff would be harder to come by when this is the case, right now you would just see an absolute flood of HQ materials from encounters.
But no, I don't see any reason why a new player should have easy access to high tech technology. There are ways to exist without crafting high tech technology and the option is always there to improve. I don't see why someone thats just signed up should have access to the same kind of things as people who are organised and have spent a long time on the game - be they gangs or loners. Theres nothing stopping them organising themselves in a similar fashion.
High tech stuff could do with becoming somewhat more precious on here, in my view. Not everyman and his dog should be walking round with tier 2+ stuff.
Where is my dogmeat dammit..... But question, how would a dog be able to use any equipment of any kind? :/
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I said the exact opposite earlier in the thread. Of course high tech stuff would be harder to come by when this is the case, right now you would just see an absolute flood of HQ materials from encounters.
But no, I don't see any reason why a new player should have easy access to high tech technology. There are ways to exist without crafting high tech technology and the option is always there to improve. I don't see why someone thats just signed up should have access to the same kind of things as people who are organised and have spent a long time on the game - be they gangs or loners. Theres nothing stopping them organising themselves in a similar fashion.
High tech stuff could do with becoming somewhat more precious on here, in my view. Not everyman and his dog should be walking round with tier 2+ stuff.
"Miniguns-for-everyone" is not intended. Everyone should spend some effort in the game, if they want the top gear, also agreed.
It's just the lack of alternative of sources for HQ mats and by alternatives i didn't meant EASY alternatives. Just different.
They should be more difficult than ordinary "get-ore-or-die-tryin" method, see above.
Facing the difficulties, like high-tier PvE, irradiating, high cost or other extreme time-/ effortconsuming method, the player will most surely decide to go to the unguarded mine, if he wants to get enough ore, instead of a small adventure.
Or gather a team around him in some kind of repeatable quest.
Player interaction, in a positive way.
So why do i suggest this at all, if i don't want the ease at mining, Solar?
I wish for an alternative for players who don't want to get humiliated constantly by BKs.
Even though BKs will still get their meat at unguarded mines to not to venture for fresh victims into other cities. (they do it anyway)
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But then we lose all those going for the alternative method. Its not like unguarded mines are always full of players as it is. Further de-population would just weaken the concept.
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But then we lose all those going for the alternative method. Its not like unguarded mines are always full of players as it is. Further de-population would just weaken the concept.
That's because unguarded mines are mostly rather shooting ranges for BKs than battlegrounds.
There would be more visitors, if high minigun level could be defeated by strategic hiding skill - like with double entrances at Redding or Gecko, multiple mining spots, view obstructions for successful hiding, like trees, buildings at Redding or signs at Gecko, as well as less bottlenecks, like at Broken Hills with its sole ever-camped entrance.
You could ask players for more strategic nuances at mines, but that's a different topic.
As for the original topic, i can't imagine that the players would resort to more difficult and timeconsuming ways, which i proposed, just to avoid being lolslaughtered by minigunners camping the grid.
Otherwise i'd like to quote following:
The mice cried bitter tears, stung themselves, but couldn't withstand the delicious cactus
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I just had the Perfect idea for disassembling items!
The devs have already stated that they don't want people to be able to get high quality materials from disassembling items, right? Well why should you give them? Don't. Instead of "Good Metal Parts", have the possible material given become just plain old "Metal Parts". After all, they are used.
The exception to this, of course, should be Uranium. Cause rads is rads.