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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Pandemon on May 09, 2010, 12:41:09 pm
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This is next suggestion which should decrease amount of alts if would be implemented.
Firstly, let's find answer for question "why there are is many alts?".
There can be many reasons but the most noticeable is that powerbuilds can't or don't want to craft ammo for their guns.
Main part of my idea is to make gun useable only for characters with enough high skills. That means, if you want to use sniper rifle, you will have to have these skills which you need to craft sniper rifle (so, not only small guns but also repair and science). Same for other weapons usage (I am thinking about same with medicaments but I think you will protest).
To avoid crafter alts Devs need to make schemes which you will need to craft f.e. sniper rifle. Schemes of weapons from third (or maybe second) profession level shouldn't be able to buy from NPC but can be only found in quests or on special encounters (that will avoid also that what is now, everyone have best weapon and win depends only from that who got better powerbuild). Then you will need not only skills, profession level but also scheme to craft the item.
I am just thinking now about that schemes should dissapear after use or not? If yes, then there won't be trade of schemes, if no, then there someday again everyone will has best weapon ingame and will be as I wrote above.
In sum, almost everyone who I said my suggestion said it will really avoid making powerbuilds but now I am afraid in this game most of players are powerbuild and they will cry shame I want to destroy their fun.
Say no to powerbuilds!
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I still dont understand whats wrong with powerbuilds ? You probably lack skills of making one ?
On the other hand, schemes are good idea, but they should be tradeable and also we need more items in every profession if we want to see schemes implemented.
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I still dont understand whats wrong with powerbuilds ?
... wrong is that FOnline shouldn't be quake where fighting is the main aim of the game. I am not saying e-beer is best thing ever but can't understand people who came to Fallout Online only for fight and even don't want to make focking quests. THIS IS FALLOUT NOT A QUAKE the fuck..
Also if you want only fight make this battle more complicated, make tactics here, not only "I will win because I got more AP and better SPECIAL!"
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And since its FOnline everyone should be allowed to roll his own build as he wish without any artificial restrictions like yours.
Instead of trying to nerf powerbuilds we should boost nonpowerbuilds so they can compete with them. Just face simple fact that most of the (almost every) mmo game that exists is all about fighting. Its either PvE or PvP but its always about killing something through what you get better and progress in game. And then its up to player to decide what he wants to do ingame, whenether he wants to stay out of combat and just farm materials and craft from them or join guild/gang and raid towns for some PvP action or cooperate with party to beat some dungeon etc... There should be endless sea of choices what to do ingame but the core of the game should be always combat wise so even the worst PvP build ever should be capable of decent combat activity.
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powerbuilds would still stay the same sinc they are made to be most effective in fights.
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can't understand people who came to Fallout Online only for fight and even don't want to make focking quests.
Play a focking Fallout 2 to make quests! Why do you need Fonline for quests?
And what's wrong with powerbuilds and fighting each other all the time? Watch Mad Max, it's mainly about gangs fighting each other for resources,
almost same here.
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Maybe it shouldnt, but it is the main reason why many players play FOnline. Theres just nothing better to do at the moment than to fight.
Also who said that it shouldnt be like that ?
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... wrong is that FOnline shouldn't be quake where fighting is the main aim of the game. I am not saying e-beer is best thing ever but can't understand people who came to Fallout Online only for fight and even don't want to make focking quests. THIS IS FALLOUT NOT A QUAKE the fuck..
Also if you want only fight make this battle more complicated, make tactics here, not only "I will win because I got more AP and better SPECIAL!"
The Fallout (1,2) I always played was about choise, that means I could choose 1 CH character and shoot thru the whole game. So why the fuck u wanna restrick powerbuilds if u say THIS IS FALLOUT!? hm?
Its good like it is atm, if u want play universal character and make quests, steal, craft or whatever- just do it. but its logical that if u meet fighter who likes better shooting than talking, u will die, as it would have been in Fallout 1,2.
And yes, fights always were and always will be the majority in games generally. Because its the thing u cant do in real life (unless u r soldier or w/e).
TO Gordulan: yes, and what? that means it should be banned? I guess in every world is damn horrible ugly face with muscles who knows only how to fight well.
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i did just that when i was 8, best shit ever, a bit hazy, now that 11 years have passed, but i remember having shit karma at the end.
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The Fallout (1,2) I always played was about choise, that means I could choose 1 CH character and shoot thru the whole game. So why the fuck u wanna restrick powerbuilds if u say THIS IS FALLOUT!? hm?
Its good like it is atm, if u want play universal character and make quests, steal, craft or whatever- just do it. but its logical that if u meet fighter who likes better shooting than talking, u will die, as it would have been in Fallout 1,2.
And yes, fights always were and always will be the majority in games generally. Because its the thing u cant do in real life (unless u r soldier or w/e).
Difference is that in fallout you could finish the game as any kind of char. In fonline you cannot finish the game because there is no frank horrigan to defeat in various ways. Only way to show power is to fight other players.
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Difference is that in fallout you could finish the game as any kind of char. In fonline you cannot finish the game because there is no frank horrigan to defeat in various ways. Only way to show power is to fight other players.
nah, u can show your power by your trading skills, by your fortune, by stealing, by showing your game knowledges, by persuating others and have army of friends...
If u want to show power by fighting- get the fucking proper strong character for this!
The presence of ending the game has got nothin to do with this
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This is a perfect example of another one man army that wishes to change the game in impossible ways. Really, what the hell do you have against powerbuilds. All i can guess is that you're near the embarrasment award due to them. Anyway, call me atleast 5 endgame activities for a guy that has like 3 lvl 21 chars and has beaten the shit out of this game. RP? Thats 1. PvP? Thats 2. Bombing people in NCR? Thats 3. All other kinds of griefing, stealing etc? Well count that in 3rd point. Out of all that, i'd say PvP is the most interesting and best part. And to have the best results in it for you and your faction... well, yes, best is if you have a powerbuild.
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Okay, you all understood me wrong.
I didn't want to say powerbuilds should be deleted or something like that but I just want to make this game more interesting. Is it interesting when almost everyone got powerbuild and winning depends of lvl, amount of AP and SPECIAL? I think not....
I agree that there should be lots of PvP, but make something new, make your own tactics or anything!
Anyway I still think that making powerbuild and 653948984389248953 alts for crafting is bad and should be changed in any way.
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I agree that seeing powerbuilds in fallout game is really a bit out of place. But what do you want to do against it?
There are just a few people how want to PvP. And to "win" there, you need a powerbuild. I find it also a bit silly and like to see more different builds, that peoples characters don't look and play exactly the same.. But I don' know, I don't think schemes will solve this problem. ;)
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Anyway, even if not, it will be some new ingame and maybe in little percent will avoid making hi-tech stuff for almost free (if schemes will dissapear).
Now there are just 124532953489673 alts and almost everyone can craft what he want and how many he want (just using "fast reloging" bug). With schemes you will need to play a main character and craft probably too, because to get best scheme you will need to make quest or kill powerful critter (f.e. plasma rifles schemes can only have Enclave, Avenger Miniguns can only have BoS)
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If you want crafters to take part at PvP, the only way is how to make Repair/Science influence on fight.
Science:
"Covers a variety of high technology skills, such as computers, biology, physics and geology."
For example low science = you're hairy ape who don't know how much will be 1+1, so I can't understand how such person can wear high grade equipment and work in team with someone. High science means knowlegde of physics that will help you to shoot/throw properly, biology to do aimed shots properly and of couse science will make you able to use covers like barrles/boxes/trees to avoid bullets. High science skill allows you to analyse the situation of fight. Also science skill will allow you to use all this high tech stuff, also repair can be used for it too. At least use it better than low science.
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nah, u can show your power by your trading skills, by your fortune, by stealing, by showing your game knowledges, by persuating others and have army of friends...
If u want to show power by fighting- get the fucking proper strong character for this!
The presence of ending the game has got nothin to do with this
Nobody wants just buy equipment so that his friends can do all the fighting. Fighting is fun, exciting, challenging and in the end the only real competitive feature in the game. Fighting is the way how problems are solved in the game. Stealer, merchant or mechanic can never put the same impact on other players than a good fighter build. Hell, nobody plays the game the as pure pure non-combat char.
There's nothing wrong with having a good pvp char but there is something wrong with the fact that most pvp chars are supported by alts thus taking away the tradeoffs for choosing only combat related skills, perks and stats. This way players have everything they need in their hands, they become completely self-sustained and it's against the principles of this mmo where players are supposed to have roles.
Ending the game especially has to do with this. In fallout defeating frank horrigan was the most significant thing you could do. It could be done in various ways. In fonline defeating other players is its most challenging thing to do and it can be done only by fighting. Because we use the same character building system, many of the skills, stats and perks do not support killing and they do not provide a good tradeoff efficiency-wise. You can't kill other players with repair or pathfinder perk.
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Victory in PvP depends mostly of player or team skills, not the way of making char, powerbuild or any secret knowledge about SPECIAL. That's why being "no to powerbuilds" is like being no to the sun.
Schemes - right, let's get more pain in the ass to crafting.
-1
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Victory in PvP depends mostly of player or team skills, not the way of making char, powerbuild or any secret knowledge about SPECIAL.
Okay, make a char with 3 actions points, END1 and PE1, tag outdoorsman, doctor and first aid. I'll make a char with 250 big guns, fast shot, bonus rate of fire, 2x bonus ranged damage and living anatomy. Then we'll see how much your skills help you.
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Okay, make a char with 3 actions points, END1 and PE1, tag outdoorsman, doctor and first aid. I'll make a char with 250 big guns, fast shot, bonus rate of fire, 2x bonus ranged damage and living anatomy. Then we'll see how much your skills help you.
Misunderstanding - I meant if we both have the same chars-powerbuilds (and we can, because there are no restrictions about making them), victory will depend on our game skills, not char skills. It's like a race of insanely fast cars with different drivers - clumsy and skillful. Now you get my point?
That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.
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Misunderstanding - I meant if we both have the same chars-powerbuilds (and we can, because there are no restrictions about making them), victory will depend on our game skills, not char skills. It's like a race of insanely fast cars with different drivers - clumsy and skillful. Now you get my point?
That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.
you found America right now :p
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That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.
Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?
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Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?
So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?
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So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?
what he ment was: An online fallout deserves something more than a gameplay based mostly on being a part of few maniacs with the "only" proper character setup in order to be succesfull
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what he ment was: An online fallout deserves something more than a gameplay based mostly on being a part of few maniacs with the "only" proper character setup in order to be succesfull
few= 200+ :)
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So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?
What I'm saying is that in combat the character is the most decisive factor. Then comes the gear, then comes player's skills.
In addition try playing combat powerbuild that isn't supported by alts. Where you going to get your gear? Some of your teammates plays pure crafter? I don't think so.
Seriously are these things new? Alts and powerbuilds have been around since day one, their effect on the game has discussed forever and there's still people who just don't get what's wrong.
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If noone will be done in this topic someday will come the day when everyone will have powerbuild + 6546945809394 alts for crafting. And then everyone will must show his "skills" (read: winnin person is the person who got faster hands and who's gang got more ammo)
Seems that you like it Wichura, don't you?
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Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?
Better than you think - I don't have any powerbuild myself, however I know how to make one.
Yes, char focused on combat will always be better than diversed one, like mine f.e. Yes, there is a big hole between both types of chars. What can we do about it? Except for nerfing or forbidding something over and over? I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but I can't see for now reasonable solution for it. Let's try to focus on that, instead of yet another "who has the biggest dick" competition, shall we?
Seems that you like it Wichura, don't you?
Seems that you completely don't know what are you talking about. Again.
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So, you think that won't happen? Why? I think it's quite possible, the last who stays without powerbuilds are doctors (dunno why) but I can't see anymore Taxi men, thieves or even "tactics men". Just everyone focused on shotting for most dmg or what?!
I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but I can't see for now reasonable solution for it. Let's try to focus on that, instead of yet another "who has the biggest dick" competition, shall we?Seems that you completely don't know what are you talking about. Again.
Maybe you didn't read the first post, please do it now. Not I started "who has the biggest dick" competition. And that's you whining about that changes or tries of changes in powerbuilds are bad.
It's so easy to say "-1 schemes are bad", say me then why? You like it when any of your thousands alts can craft anything you need without almost any sacrifice of time?
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I'm whining, sure. And I have a powerbuild as well. And my char is Jet addicted big-gunner psycho. And what I'm expecting from this game is to pwnz0ring n00bz only.
* facepalm *
Schematics of weapons seems bad idea to me - it's just another requirement for crafting, which already consumes a lot of time. Example - to get one P90c gun you need 4 HQ alloys (4 HQ ore and 4 HQ minerals), 4 HQ Metal Parts (4 HQ ore), 3 regular alloys (6 ore and 6 minerals), some other minor stuff. It is a lot, lot of running and gathering you know. And you need to be part of Wasteland beloved bandits - the Raiders. Try to enter guarded town being a Raider.
Now you want to add a schematic - what for? To make crafting harder/longer? To prevent large gangs from having the best equipment? To make PvE more interesting (getting schematics from "dungeons") or quests to be more profitable? Tell me, I don't see your point in this.
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Already it's that: 21lvl powerbuild can't craft because he is powerbuild. So he made 654534567 alts to craft ammo, weapons, etc. He is using fast relog bug and then he can got 10 P90c in ~30 minutes. With schemes, he will need to find 10 schemes of P90c to make 10 this guns. If P90c is from profession level 3 he can't buy schemes of it in shop but he need to look on encounters, make a quest or something else which can't be possible to weak crafter-alt. Got it?
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Already it's that: 21lvl powerbuild can't craft because he is powerbuild. So he made 654534567 alts to craft ammo, weapons, etc. He is using fast relog bug and then he can got 10 P90c in ~30 minutes. With schemes, he will need to find 10 schemes of P90c to make 10 this guns. If P90c is from profession level 3 he can't buy schemes of it in shop but he need to look on encounters, make a quest or something else which can't be possible to weak crafter-alt. Got it?
Its better to say "2 crafters" than "132468476874613". Its more precise :P
Much better would be to dissallow fast relog somehow, which isnt possible I guess cause it wasnt done yet
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Already it's that: 21lvl powerbuild can't craft because he is powerbuild. So he made 654534567 alts to craft ammo, weapons, etc. He is using fast relog bug and then he can got 10 P90c in ~30 minutes. With schemes, he will need to find 10 schemes of P90c to make 10 this guns. If P90c is from profession level 3 he can't buy schemes of it in shop but he need to look on encounters, make a quest or something else which can't be possible to weak crafter-alt. Got it?
We are speaking about the same, but using different words - you want to slow down crafting for some reason by adding time required to find schematics. Funny thing is, that it has nothing to do with powerbuilds - what will prevent player from using P90 crafted with an alt by his powerbuild?
And why are you against alts and powerbuilds anyway?
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This idea is full of fail. First of all, you don't have to understand how a weapon works to operate and even maitain it. Second of all, crafter-fighter builds are even more copy-pasty than powerbuilds, because to get the profession there's not much you can do with your SPECIAL and perks - so we'd have a clonewar in no time, most perks would become unusable and BG would rule the wastes because they save you a lot of points you'd otherwise have to invest in luck. Basically, you can't eliminate powerbuilds from the game, because they are a consequence of player mindset and not of mechanics. If you have a character creation system you obviously are going to have optimal ways of solving shit - so the powerbuilds will always be there.
Oh and avv and his usual bucket of bitching about how everyone is unoriginal and how you can't fight without a weapon skill. Yeah, you're right - now go and play Diablo 2, choose a Barbarian, invest all your character points in Magic and whine on Blizzard.net about how that build fails and how the game is imbalanced, lol.
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Okay, I sensed it - almost nobody wants changes in actuall depencence in powerbuilds+alts. Your choice.
I am off.
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Okay, I sensed it - almost nobody wants changes in actuall depencence in powerbuilds+alts. Your choice.
I am off.
Everybody want changes since current situation is not too good. But as said above there will be always way how to do things better than average and someone will always consider it a power build. Besides your idea suck really hard.