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[RavenousRat]

If you want crafters to take part at PvP, the only way is how to make Repair/Science influence on fight.
Science:
"Covers a variety of high technology skills, such as computers, biology, physics and geology."

For example low science = you're hairy ape who don't know how much will be 1+1, so I can't understand how such person can wear high grade equipment and work in team with someone. High science means knowlegde of physics that will help you to shoot/throw properly, biology to do aimed shots properly and of couse science will make you able to use covers like barrles/boxes/trees to avoid bullets. High science skill allows you to analyse the situation of fight. Also science skill will allow you to use all this high tech stuff, also repair can be used for it too. At least use it better than low science.

[avv]

nah, u can show your power by your trading skills, by your fortune, by stealing, by showing your game knowledges, by persuating others and have army of friends...
If u want to show power by fighting- get the fucking proper strong character for this!
The presence of ending the game has got nothin to do with this

Nobody wants just buy equipment so that his friends can do all the fighting. Fighting is fun, exciting, challenging and in the end the only real competitive feature in the game. Fighting is the way how problems are solved in the game. Stealer, merchant or mechanic can never put the same impact on other players than a good fighter build. Hell, nobody plays the game the as pure pure non-combat char.

There's nothing wrong with having a good pvp char but there is something wrong with the fact that most pvp chars are supported by alts thus taking away the tradeoffs for choosing only combat related skills, perks and stats. This way players have everything they need in their hands, they become completely self-sustained and it's against the principles of this mmo where players are supposed to have roles.

Ending the game especially has to do with this. In fallout defeating frank horrigan was the most significant thing you could do. It could be done in various ways. In fonline defeating other players is its most challenging thing to do and it can be done only by fighting. Because we use the same character building system, many of the skills, stats and perks do not support killing and they do not provide a good tradeoff efficiency-wise. You can't kill other players with repair or pathfinder perk.

[Wichura]

Victory in PvP depends mostly of player or team skills, not the way of making char, powerbuild or any secret knowledge about SPECIAL. That's why being "no to powerbuilds" is like being no to the sun.

Schemes - right, let's get more pain in the ass to crafting.
-1

[avv]

Victory in PvP depends mostly of player or team skills, not the way of making char, powerbuild or any secret knowledge about SPECIAL.

Okay, make a char with 3 actions points, END1 and PE1, tag outdoorsman, doctor and first aid. I'll make a char with 250 big guns, fast shot, bonus rate of fire, 2x bonus ranged damage and living anatomy. Then we'll see how much your skills help you.

[Wichura]

Okay, make a char with 3 actions points, END1 and PE1, tag outdoorsman, doctor and first aid. I'll make a char with 250 big guns, fast shot, bonus rate of fire, 2x bonus ranged damage and living anatomy. Then we'll see how much your skills help you.

Misunderstanding - I meant if we both have the same chars-powerbuilds (and we can, because there are no restrictions about making them), victory will depend on our game skills, not char skills. It's like a race of insanely fast cars with different drivers - clumsy and skillful. Now you get my point?
That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.

[Josefista]

Misunderstanding - I meant if we both have the same chars-powerbuilds (and we can, because there are no restrictions about making them), victory will depend on our game skills, not char skills. It's like a race of insanely fast cars with different drivers - clumsy and skillful. Now you get my point?
That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.

you found America right now :p

[avv]

That's why I don't get all this "no to powerbuilds" madness.

Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?

[Crazy]

Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?

So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?

[Drakonis]

So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?

what he ment was: An online fallout deserves something more than a gameplay based mostly on being a part of few maniacs with the "only" proper character setup in order to be succesfull

[Josefista]

what he ment was: An online fallout deserves something more than a gameplay based mostly on being a part of few maniacs with the "only" proper character setup in order to be succesfull

few= 200+

[avv]

So because you haven't a powerbuild it's should be forbid for other? And like you haven't a CA other should'nt have any? And because you are not 21 lvl cap should be 10?

What I'm saying is that in combat the character is the most decisive factor. Then comes the gear, then comes player's skills.

In addition try playing combat powerbuild that isn't supported by alts. Where you going to get your gear? Some of your teammates plays pure crafter? I don't think so.

Seriously are these things new? Alts and powerbuilds have been around since day one, their effect on the game has discussed forever and there's still people who just don't get what's wrong.

[Pandemon]

If noone will be done in this topic someday will come the day when everyone will have powerbuild + 6546945809394 alts for crafting. And then everyone will must show his "skills" (read: winnin person is the person who got faster hands and who's gang got more ammo)
Seems that you like it Wichura, don't you?

[Wichura]

Not everybody has a powerbuild. Do you understand now?

Better than you think - I don't have any powerbuild myself, however I know how to make one.
Yes, char focused on combat will always be better than diversed one, like mine f.e. Yes, there is a big hole between both types of chars. What can we do about it? Except for nerfing or forbidding something over and over? I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but I can't see for now reasonable solution for it. Let's try to focus on that, instead of yet another "who has the biggest dick" competition, shall we?

Seems that you like it Wichura, don't you?

Seems that you completely don't know what are you talking about. Again.

[Pandemon]

So, you think that won't happen? Why? I think it's quite possible, the last who stays without powerbuilds are doctors (dunno why) but I can't see anymore Taxi men, thieves or even "tactics men". Just everyone focused on shotting for most dmg or what?!

I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but I can't see for now reasonable solution for it. Let's try to focus on that, instead of yet another "who has the biggest dick" competition, shall we?Seems that you completely don't know what are you talking about. Again.

Maybe you didn't read the first post, please do it now. Not I started "who has the biggest dick" competition. And that's you whining about that changes or tries of changes in powerbuilds are bad.
It's so easy to say "-1 schemes are bad", say me then why? You like it when any of your thousands alts can craft anything you need without almost any sacrifice of time?

[Wichura]

I'm whining, sure. And I have a powerbuild as well. And my char is Jet addicted big-gunner psycho. And what I'm expecting from this game is to pwnz0ring n00bz only.
* facepalm *

Schematics of weapons seems bad idea to me - it's just another requirement for crafting, which already consumes a lot of time. Example - to get one P90c gun you need 4 HQ alloys (4 HQ ore and 4 HQ minerals), 4 HQ Metal Parts (4 HQ ore), 3 regular alloys (6 ore and 6 minerals), some other minor stuff. It is a lot, lot of running and gathering you know. And you need to be part of Wasteland beloved bandits - the Raiders. Try to enter guarded town being a Raider.

Now you want to add a schematic - what for? To make crafting harder/longer? To prevent large gangs from having the best equipment? To make PvE more interesting (getting schematics from "dungeons") or quests to be more profitable? Tell me, I don't see your point in this.