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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => News and Announcements => Topic started by: Bartosz on December 30, 2009, 09:12:11 pm
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(SMALL FEATURES):
- NPCs in game loot too
- Encounter npcs get angry if you loot what they wanted grab
CHANGES (WIP):
- Craft timeout is cumulative, and it blocks you when you're above 60 minutes. That means fresh character can do some stuff than go playing. It's feature to be tested if it's good or not at all.
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CHANGES (WIP):
- Craft timeout is cumulative, and it blocks you when you're above 60 minutes. That means fresh character can do some stuff than go playing. It's feature to be tested if it's good or not at all.
I, for one, do not think this is how cooldowns should be handled.
It feel it kinda takes the point of it being a cooldown away if you can consecutively craft things before you actually have to "cool down" from crafting.
Was there anything actually wrong with the old system enough to influence a change like this? Or is this one of those 'test it out for a week and see how it goes' things? If it's the latter I have no problem with it really, you guys have to test ideas out but I really do not hope this is how crafting cooldowns will be handled for the rest of the beta / final version.
I'm not a fan of the "craft 400 bullets at once and then you have to wait 85 minutes to be able to craft again", it doesn't really make sense and It's one of those things how you have to wonder how it would work out long-term.
I think the old system was working ok, except for the possibility of bots crafting every 30 seconds or so because of static cooldowns. If the latter was happening I can see why you've thought of this idea, I just do not think it's executed very well because of certain situations like for e.g. When you need ammo quickly but cannot make it for another half hour. It's a lot more encumbering than the original crafting system.
Just wanted to share my thoughts on the topic in question. :P
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It feel it kinda takes the point of it being a cooldown away if you can consecutively craft things before you actually have to "cool down" from crafting.
Well, it gives you the fun of the game, while not forcing you to sit hour in the cave, while also prevents the economy (cause in the end the values are the same)
Was there anything actually wrong with the old system enough to influence a change like this?
Well, many were unhappy that they couldn't just make gun and bullets and go hunting.
I just do not think it's executed very well because of certain situations like for e.g. When you need ammo quickly but cannot make it for another half hour
Does it really differ from previous approach here?
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Well, it gives you the fun of the game, while not forcing you to sit hour in the cave, while also prevents the economy (cause in the end the values are the same)
Well, many were unhappy that they couldn't just make gun and bullets and go hunting.
Well, actually, not only did you add this newest feature but you also raised the ammo crafting cooldowns to something over 10 minutes per batch to fit more with the "60+ mins and you have to wait" thing. So the end result is not the same as before when you could produce much more ammo in the same time frame but not have 60 minute cooldowns at the end.
It might be nice for the the guys who just want to go hunt, but it isn't very helpful when crafting is your profession and main source of exp. Not everyone has a group to go out hunting centaurs and wanamingos with. There are even people in the wastes almost never fight, but they craft and trade for exp and money (as far-fetched as it may sound). You have to consider things like this.
Does it really differ from previous approach here?
Uh yeah. I don't remember crafting cooldowns for some ammos being anything above 5 minutes, let alone 30 minutes, now your cooldowns just fill up like you put mentos in a bottle of coke.
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I look at the way crafting is treated now , and i like to think of the 'cooldowns' as more of the actual time it might take to create such an item. In that aspect, its pretty damn good. 8 hours for a complex suit of combat armor, fkn rights.
Ask yourself, How long would it actually take to fill shells at a wasteland workbench, Or to make a gun, for that matter.
It's quite realistic, but may not be suited for those who like to pick up a weapon and pwn noobz
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I look at the way crafting is treated now , and i like to think of the 'cooldowns' as more of the actual time it might take to create such an item. In that aspect, its pretty damn good. 8 hours for a complex suit of combat armor, fkn rights.
Ask yourself, How long would it actually take to fill shells at a wasteland workbench, Or to make a gun, for that matter.
Yeah, I tried to imagine this. But then how would you be crafting for the whole time you're running around killing stuff with a 60 minute cooldown? If you were glued to the workbench (metaphorically) for the cooldown time then It might make sense, but I don't think anyone wants that. ;)
It's quite realistic, but may not be suited for those who like to pick up a weapon and pwn noobz
Well, it's more the people who aren't running around pwning noobz that would be having problems with this (as I mentioned in my post above), as there are players less capable at PvE/PvP but more geared towards crafting.
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Uh yeah. I don't remember crafting cooldowns for some ammos being anything above 5 minutes, let alone 30 minutes, now your cooldowns just fill up like you put mentos in a bottle of coke.
Nah, you're mistaking it with another issue. Namely, having cigarettes at 0 timeout, brass knuckles at very low forced me to set some (arbitraly for now, since some other changes are pending anyway) minimum cap at 5 minutes. It's got nothing to do with cumulating up to 60 minutes.
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Regardless, my other points are still valid. You've changed the crafting system in favour of PvPers and "people who just want to go fight" and left crafters handicapped. For the crafters that don't fight, what are they going to do for the 60-80 minutes that they're on cooldown? They're not gonna wait around, they're just gonna log off and come back later, thus 2238 losing players' interest in the game. This new system could also encourage more crafting alts because it's obvious people would rather wait 10 minutes for anti-alt than wait 80 minutes to be able to craft some more ammo.
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I don't see there such a big problem. If you craft and wait and craft and wait or first craft all and then wait... there is imo not a big difference except that with second method you are not forced to wait longer than needed until you can go on with gathering or whatever.
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Regardless, my other points are still valid. You've changed the crafting system in favour of PvPers and "people who just want to go fight" and left crafters handicapped. For the crafters that don't fight, what are they going to do for the 60-80 minutes that they're on cooldown? They're not gonna wait around, they're just gonna log off and come back later, thus 2238 losing players' interest in the game.
Pardon me?
This new system could also encourage more crafting alts because it's obvious people would rather wait 10 minutes for anti-alt than wait 80 minutes to be able to craft some more ammo.
Well, that's another issue I agree with, but we are aware of it.
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Pardon me?
If they're not hooked on FOnline, the addiction ain't working.
It's like a drug... y'know.
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Well, I rather asked about how they're handicapped, not what happens if someone looses his drug (actually, after seeing other comments, I'm now very surprised someone can be addicted to sitting in cave waiting and occasional clicks).
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Well, I rather asked about how they're handicapped
If they're not fighters, they have to wait through 80 minutes of nothing to be able to craft something again. And gathering for 80 minutes doesn't cut it when people have all the materials they need right in front of them.
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Somehow I think you understand it wrong:
I logged my char, went to my cave, made few pistols, some ammo, now I see my Craft timeout is > 60 minutes, so I can't do more. I can do *whatever* I want now (even sitting on workbench whistling, if that's what someone wants), except crafting, till it goes again below 60 minutes. If it go below 60 minutes, then it acts like previous '0' value, with additional buffer of 60 minutes you may cumulate if you wait enough.
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I logged my char, went to my cave, made few pistols, some ammo, now I see my Craft timeout is > 60 minutes, so I can't do more. I can do *whatever* I want now (even sitting on workbench whistling, if that's what someone wants), except crafting, till it goes again below 60 minutes. If it go below 60 minutes, then it acts like previous '0' value, with additional buffer of 60 minutes you may cumulate if you wait enough.
I know this, I'm still against it.
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I know this(...)
Well, I somehow couldn't read that from your arguments.
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Probably because that's not the part I'm explaining my problem with.
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Probably because that's not the part I'm explaining my problem with.
Then...explain it well, instead of increasing postcount with some fuzzy arguments that don't help.
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Im against all these timers as well,its the whole reason im not playing anymore.If they are supposed to prevent a flood of items in the market place,add realism to the game,I really dont know.Realism is nice but this is a game not real life and realism should take a backseat to fun.As far as alts are concerned,they will always be a problem for balance no matter how many times you change or add timers.A guy with a bunch of alts will craft more and collect more and only the regular players will be hurt by timers.Adressing alts instead is the way to go and leaving the timers where they belong,in real life not fallout.Is it possible to just set that rule,just say it ,post it ,whatever you guys have to do.Make a post informing people that anything more than 2 ingame characters is against the rules,and inforce it with jailing with an eventual ban for anyone who thinks they are a comedian and continues to abuse.
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Then...explain it well, instead of increasing postcount with some fuzzy arguments that don't help.
You think I'm arguing against this change to increase post count? :(
Tyler has explained it pretty well above me.
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Tyler has explained it pretty well above me.
I refrain from continuing this discussion without having at least clear clarification of what you actually want. Maybe it's because I'm not native, but I just don't know exactly which issue you describe.
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I thought the old crafting system was fine... that's what I want back, I thought you would have seen that pretty well from my posts.
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I thought the old crafting system was fine... that's what I want back, I thought you would have seen that pretty well from my posts.
Well no, because for someone who've implemented many changes to it, term "old system" have many, too many meanings.
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I look at the way crafting is treated now , and i like to think of the 'cooldowns' as more of the actual time it might take to create such an item. In that aspect, its pretty damn good. 8 hours for a complex suit of combat armor, fkn rights.
Ask yourself, How long would it actually take to fill shells at a wasteland workbench, Or to make a gun, for that matter.
It's quite realistic, but may not be suited for those who like to pick up a weapon and pwn noobz
im sure the realistic sense of crafting and gathering might sound fun.But let me be frank.I dont want to have to "work" in a game that is similar to real life.It just takes too damn long. >:(
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i agree with the post above me. I play games to have fun, to take a break from reality (working days after days) I dont want to also "work" in a video game, and yes its rewarded. after about 1 hour of finding materials i finally managed to craft the gun and was on my way back to tent suddenly i encountered remnants of the masters army, they told me to put away my weapon. Due to the lag i wasn't quick enough so i got shot. My point is that you lose everything so quick in this game and that is very discouraging plus the timeout is like 2-3 hours. Its just my 2cents opinion as a beta tester, this game used to be fun but the new crafting system is slowly killing it for me (i still find it entertaining at times)
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If it ain't broke, it don't need fixin'. So why "fix" it?
I can think of many things that do need fixing, however.
Only thing I actually like about this is no cooldowns for Minerals, Metal Parts and Alloys (because it's not like they give exp or anything).
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Either you start talk on-topic, or you move with this discussion to appropriate thread. There's one about cooldowns in suggestion thread. Can't help, but if I post changelog about cumulative timeouts, then talk about cumulative timeouts. This update had nothing to do with timeout values, stop spamming.
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i agree with the post above me. I play games to have fun, to take a break from reality (working days after days) I dont want to also "work" in a video game, and yes its rewarded. after about 1 hour of finding materials i finally managed to craft the gun and was on my way back to tent suddenly i encountered remnants of the masters army, they told me to put away my weapon. Due to the lag i wasn't quick enough so i got shot. My point is that you lose everything so quick in this game and that is very discouraging plus the timeout is like 2-3 hours. Its just my 2cents opinion as a beta tester, this game used to be fun but the new crafting system is slowly killing it for me (i still find it entertaining at times)
Candy explains my post even better.We want to play.not work our asses off.We do that in our daily lives (excluding the young children)The change over since the wipe has been annoying. Give us back our fun.sheesh
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I was weary and irked at the start when I finally got to crafting just recently with this new system. It did feel like a bother, but after learning more, it hasn't really changed much. The timeouts are relatively the same, but in a different order. Which, actually IS nicer this way, as it does a few things.
-Things are still the same time to do them, like before. Except its been reversed. Previously it was: Slow, drawn-out wait (as you mine the materials gradually) before reaching the required amount after so much time mining, and then instantly(almost) crafting whatever it is you wanted.
The new method simply puts the 'wait' period at the end instead, letting you logout, or go wander and die for doc/fa XP if you want. It has freed the person up and has kept the formula the same throughout.
-Another thing which of note is that some are acting like tons of people don't crafter alt. That is one of the big things, but as it is, its gonna happen quite often and continue to do so at present until effective measures against it are put in place. Also you should note that people are botting and alting to get crafting done/mined anyway. (NOTE: with the new method, it helps stop spam crafting on bots as well. That pile of materials you got sitting there from our bot mining all night is now worthless. The new crafting cooldown means that despite the cheating, he STILL has to wait for the crafting cooldown to finish, whereas before he could craft-spam with a buncha resources. Yet another perk to the new system)
It now lets a leisurely player, if they so decide to, craft plenty of XP of an item then logout. If you mine for a period of time the day before, you can burn through it all in 15 minutes of playtime that you manage to spare the next day, and still get the XP, except more efficiently spread apart and being railroaded into slow mining... like previously.
All in all, the system is an improvement once you get past the initial annoyance at the change. It has changed nothing except speed the whole process up, thus freeing the players to do anything they want afterwards. Which includes xping another crafter if they so wish...
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It has changed nothing except speed the whole process up, thus freeing the players to do anything they want afterwards.
Actually, all the cooldowns have been upped by 5-20 minutes (and that's only ammo, some armors go up to 5 hours).
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Oh, stop whining!
The present crafting system is the best implemented so far (ever since the introduction of the whole gathering/crafting cooldown thingy).
Before cooldowns one crafter with the resources of a player faction could make loads of end tier weapons and armors in a very short time (before wipe, out of boredom, i made 30 of each mk2 armor (combat jakets, leather armors and metal armors) with stuff lying around the base in about 2 hours) and that was insane and utterly unrealistic.
This system limits a lvl 3 armorer to max 2 brotherhood armors, or 6-8 metal mk2, or 20-24 leather mk2 per day. It limits the ammount of finished items you can make without forcing you to waste time grinding resources (like the previous systems of longer gathering CD did).
It's even better if you play with other people, since you take 10-15 minutes of combined gathering, craft 2-300 ammo each (get crafting cooldown up to 59 minutes) and then make some high lvl weapon (crafting cooldown jumps up to 3+ hours) and then you all go:'Ok, that's the crafting done for next 4 hours, lets go slaving/questing/trading/pvping...!'
And it's off your mind for that time; you can go gather some more resources for your next big crafting session, go play PvE or PvP, or simply log off for the time being.
Thats GREAT!!!
If you're manic about it you can still craft like a factory (2 brotherhood armors a day means 14 per week, just by one character). Of course alter users can multiply that ammount by a lot, but between gathering cooldowns and relog cooldowns they will have to spend entire days just gathering and crafting and that slightly balances/discourages this practice (it doesn't stop them, but at least they're annoyed).
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Thats GREAT!!!
Let me say one thing.
If you have loads of alts with lvl3 profession it will be much faster just to relog, make 1 CA, then relog, update it, relog to other char, make weapon, relog to other, make some ammo, and etc. You think its better than resources grinding?
Slap ypuself already. It needs other way to be resolved.
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Just don't use alts for this.
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Just don't use alts for this.
Lexx, come on, your not kid, you know that not everyoone will be good guys :D
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Actually, all the cooldowns have been upped by 5-20 minutes (and that's only ammo, some armors go up to 5 hours).
How so? Because if they were upped, and it hasn't been noted in changelog, isn't that effectively bug which should be reported instead of using it as another argument in that awkward discussion?
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Lexx, come on, your not kid, you know that not everyoone will be good guys :D
It should not be an issue when the economy is updated
And all cooldowns should now be equal to the old gathering time that was there originally, just lumped together at the end of an item.
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Well, they are not. For example, it took around 18 min to craft 100 5mm AP, while now it takes around 28 min...
100 5mm AP required:
1 Metal part - 4.8 min (12min cd for 5 ore - 2.4 min per ore)
1 Junk - 1.5 min (6 min cd for 4 junk - 1.5 min per junk)
5 Gunpowder - 12 min
Total: 18.3 min...
But in my opinion current crafting cd-s are fine :)
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I was looking for the list of items and which materials they need to craft - the list was in a seperate thread on nma but I can't find it. :/ So I was asking here - does anyone have this list? I don't wanted to make a new thread so I'm asking here.
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http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki
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http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki
Okay, stupid me, I had to know this.
Thank you, anyway!
EDIT: Unfortunately, the crafting list is empty. ( http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Crafting )
Need to search further. ;)
EDIT2: Thanks to you, Lexx!
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Crafting tables are in the item pages.
Example (http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Red_Ryder_BB_Gun).
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Use this link http://fo2238.fodev.net/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Craftable_Items
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http://www.fallout-3.com/wiki/Crafting
this realy fine wiki
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That is, unfortunately, in French =)
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yes, but English (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.fallout-3.com/wiki/Crafting&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=utf-8) can make easy
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yes, but English (http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A//www.fallout-3.com/wiki/Crafting&hl=en&langpair=auto|en&tbb=1&ie=utf-8) can make easy
Hey, Google translate is never perfect.
Sometimes there are words in the wrong place, or a wrong substitute word used, and even punctuation missing.