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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: avv on March 24, 2013, 01:04:38 pm
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It's too strong and ways to farm are best done via abuse. The game would be much better off without the weapon because it has high range, accuracy and damage, meaning it pretty much outclasses other weapons such as lsw and makes avengers quite pointless in tc.
Best sneak is gatling sneak and if you aren't one, you can gtfo sneak fights.
Removing gatling would mean that one type of build would disappear but other builds would have more operational slots to fill.
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Remove the Avenger too while you're at it.
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Wouldn't be better if Devs script that:
1) NPC's hold their ammo in 2nd slot (no possiility to steal)
2) after they run out of ammo, they move the weapon to that slot (which is free again now)
And make Enclave possible to defeat in fair fight against a big group of fully geared, max lvl battle chars.
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Wouldn't be better if Devs script that:
1) NPC's hold their ammo in 2nd slot (no possiility to steal)
2) after they run out of ammo, they move the weapon to that slot (which is free again now)
And make Enclave possible to defeat in fair fight against a big group of fully geared, max lvl battle chars.
Then we got, NPC patrol which noone will fight, and skill steal - another troll skill used to steal wood and brahmin shit from players in NCR, thats a great suggestion.
I can agree that Gatling is too powerfull, while we got weapons like LSW which have no perk, and aren't used widely in PVP because they're... shitty, only thing you can do with them is killing 150 hp bluesuits.
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By making them able to be beaten by big group of players I meant that players would have a chance and it'd be efficient to fight them.
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By making them able to be beaten by big group of players I meant that players would have a chance and it'd be efficient to fight them.
Not better just remove those mega crits and reduce hp to 300, like normal NPCs? They're not deathclaws.
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By making them able to be beaten by big group of players I meant that players would have a chance and it'd be efficient to fight them.
The problem is partially because everyone can't have them due to enclave being too hard. But on the other hand, gatling is just so extreme weapon that its just bad for gameplay in general. It doesn't bring more variety to the game but instead it reduces it by overtaking roles of other builds.
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Just removing a problematic weapon shouldn't be done, isn't there a more elegant option?
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This won't solve anything, better just buff lsw and other weapons for more diversity. Removing gatling will just make everybody use avengers.
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Just removing a problematic weapon shouldn't be done, isn't there a more elegant option?
This won't solve anything, better just buff lsw and other weapons for more diversity. Removing gatling will just make everybody use avengers.
I agree with Cyberjesus.
PS: Take metal or tesla then gatling sucks , ave have good dmg against all armors . Why this game should be only about ave? I dont understand why burst guns have 20+ range , its unreal :D just make all burst weapons with less range , problem solved. Yes, its easy remove all problematic things in game ,then remove the whole game because its problematic ;D.
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Just removing a problematic weapon shouldn't be done, isn't there a more elegant option?
Yes there is, moving Gatling to non-exploitable solution, like obtaining them only from dungeons, ares, glow in low amounts.
No matter how you make these encounters it boils down to whom can abuse them better, so you can't truly make the weapon rare via encounters, it just doesn't work in practice.
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I just don't like when minigun weapons got more range than LMG's which should be MORE accurate, or at least deal bigger damage, while now LMG's cannot compete in any way with Avenger, because it is just better with its perk and damage.
Buffing LSW with ANY weapon perk would be cool, and adding two range, or decreasing range of all miniguns by 5, would solve that, (yes even for gatling minigun).
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Jeje i agree to all top weapons in all category sg bg ew ... Shuld be same deadly. Removing dont solv problem. If in gamę dont be gatings avengers or ripers gamę be poor & not interesing. All fights be look like pvp two completly drunked ghuls or plece of removed weapon take anoter gear & then someone say remove miniguns.
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I suggested removing because it's easiest way for devs. We did fine in last session without gatling and now we got m60 tanks to challenge avengers. They just aren't very good now because gatling can have the same features with better range and accuracy.
Gatling could have a nerf, but still it stands that metal and tesla hard counters it and energy weapons don't have any way to bypass this. The fact that you can hard-counter someone's entire build with an armor is very bad.
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Yup way is easy and fast but is wrong way. T-888 have better way out. But that shuld be rare loot from dungean but to not so rare. Cane u imaginate that two gangs fight in ares in the midlle of muties swarm. And why? Becoz there cane be a brand new gatling. Sweet.
I love a fire power of this gun and dont wanna play in this day when i be shure there no more GL
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Ares is hardly any better than enclave. Highly abused place where only strongest have access.
Besides guys, you may want to get rid of this "only strong players deserve strong weapons" because it means strong remain strong and majority of players won't even bother to participate in pvp because they don't have a chance.
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This is first session gataling is usable weapon, all previous sessions it was just fancy weapon never used in pvp fights, I get killed many times this session with gataling, but only when I wore combat armor, now I more often wear metal mk2, and I dont remember when I was recently killed by gataling, its not so easy weapon got get, and its balanced, I like the way things are right now, no change needed
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Ares is hardly any better than enclave. Highly abused place where only strongest have access.
Players should work together to achieve goals, play together, the whole purpose of MMO's. When some people will understand that, maybe there will be something to do in game.
If you want a game where factions don't have any advantage, 2238 might as well be single player then.
Ares, glow is perfect solution, because you can't bypass the amount it spawns and there is fixed time limit and everything what encounters lack.
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No matter how you make these encounters it boils down to whom can abuse
why the hell is a perfectly legit game feature being called abuse?
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why the hell is a perfectly legit game feature being called abuse?
i agree,
dual log is abuse but anything else is just a part of game.
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why the hell is a perfectly legit game feature being called abuse?
You can indeed exploit the weak AI of Enclave.
dual log is abuse but anything else is just a part of game.
Gee, what you do think players who want to mass farm Enclave does?
Dual log is part of the game, eh? Deputy kid, what do you think? ;D
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You can indeed exploit the weak AI of Enclave.
Gee, what you do think players who want to mass farm Enclave does?
I dont care what they do, I do not so why i have to suffer because of their deeds ?
If you want to solve the problem by "social responsibility" then remove it from game completely.
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I dont care what they do, I do not so why i have to suffer because of their deeds ?
Maybe because your not the only one playing the game and if you think you suffer because of game balancing changes, then I don't care? ;D
If you want to solve the problem by "social responsibility" then remove it from game completely.
I forgot how people are on 2238, lost, completely lost.
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just remove things because someone is whining lol , this forum madness never stops ... like T888 said if they nerf things people will use the secon best things and if better things in game people will always find a way to gain it ...
u can even farm enclave with just one friend , look for encounter with just 2 enclave patrols go there with tank and kill them , its not hard ...
if they do crits ok , then lvl some more alts with anticrit perks lol , there will always be a way ... or just took vertibird by refueling and then receive a cookie for it lol ...
how about press alt + F4 and shut down your computer ...
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Ares, glow is perfect solution, because you can't bypass the amount it spawns and there is fixed time limit and everything what encounters lack.
But this is extremely bad. If the spawns are fixed, it means that fraction of people take all and everyone else gets nothing. Like motion sensors in glow atm, some guy or guys take every single one of them and the entire wasteland gets nothing.
You can't change how human nature but you can change the game. Some players just don't want to farm all day to get gear, some don't want to keep so close contact to their team and prefer to do things on their own time. It's rpg-based mmo so everyone should find his own ways to do things, not so that everyone is forced to do it one way. Those who prefer to do teamwork will still do it, but how is it away from them if some individuals can do stuff alone?
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But this is extremely bad. If the spawns are fixed, it means that fraction of people take all and everyone else gets nothing.
True, but that's a minor fix and it can be randomized if someone from higher ranks is of course interested.
Like motion sensors in glow atm, some guy or guys take every single one of them and the entire wasteland gets nothing.
That's power, anyway I never said Gatling should be moved only to one source, there are few dungeons and of course it still exists in a special encounter and if some sort of resource control happens it is only normal. The rest of wasteland shouldn't be able to get everything, it's such a good concept when there is a resource struggle for something, anything and in this case it's weaponry, it is what drives players, gives the sense of feeling that there is something more to play for, to reach for something. The game is completely lost in that regard, you farm, grind some amount of stuff and then you can practically stop playing, because you have everything and there is no end-game goal.
You can't change how human nature but you can change the game.
Why change it? Embrace it.
Some players just don't want to farm all day to get gear, some don't want to keep so close contact to their team and prefer to do things on their own time.
Again I hear this bullshit for grinding all day long to get gear, what is this nonsense? Do you grind gear all day? Sorry, but that is how you choose to play. In comparison to 2238, whenever someone goes to a raid in World of Warcraft which is hours of game time and organization to play together I don't remember anyone complaining about it, if some players don't have time to play the game, then maybe they shouldn't play it? Don't you think? Yet World of Warcraft is one of the most popular, if not the most popular game in the world, because it successfully concentrates on player interaction and some level of necessity to interact. It doesn't compromise on some few scrubs on the forum who are whining that they don't want to work together, don't want to play together and it should be made how it suits them better. No, but this is exactly what is happening here.
Your whole thought process is wrong at the very core, players should be able to get the best and good equipment only if they work together and those who play alone will not have access to certain content the game provides, playing together is a better reward. It is like a universal principle which has been working very fine in a lot of popular games for a lot years and still persists in those who are coming out and will come.
It's rpg-based mmo so everyone should find his own ways to do things, not so that everyone is forced to do it one way. Those who prefer to do teamwork will still do it, but how is it away from them if some individuals can do stuff alone?
Everyone shouldn't be able to do everything, get everything by themselves, that's why we have an alt problem and players crave for some One Alt Crusade where their skills would actually come into to play and the character they would make, make a difference, but currently everyone can make alts for every single purpose and do it in their own way. See how good that turns out? The game truly is a wasteland, deserted and player interaction is secondary, there's zero necessity to interact for most of the part, everything can be done by alts.
But, necessity for teamwork not always can be replaced by alts and those features who are made that way are pure gold what this game lacks.
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Question is, if you want to have tiered weapons (f.e. Tier1-flamer, Tier2-lsw, Tier3-avenger) or have all weapons equal, weapon balance cant work with both approaches.
Ares, Glow problem could be fixed only with dozen of similar places, where everyone would have chance to grab something. I understand its not doable, but PvE instance like Gunrunners Mutants could do, repeatable with random loot.
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nah gatling and avenger is fine like it is. ma mk2/av and ca2/gatling :)
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I am not a fan of the minigun; Wasn't before and still ain't. I caught hell at the old Interplay boards for this.
But it is an apropriate weap to the game. It should stay, but be far more restricted.
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There could be weaker enclave patrols (like how initiates are for BoS) that drop Laser Gatling a very low percentage of the time. Figure how much time and cost it takes thieves to acquire LG currently, then double those requirements but as a counterbalance make LG available to farmers at an equivalent time and effort cost.
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Everyone shouldn't be able to do everything, get everything by themselves, that's why we have an alt problem and players crave for some One Alt Crusade where their skills would actually come into to play and the character they would make, make a difference, but currently everyone can make alts for every single purpose and do it in their own way. See how good that turns out? The game truly is a wasteland, deserted and player interaction is secondary, there's zero necessity to interact for most of the part, everything can be done by alts.
The real problem is that there aren't paths for different RPG classes to become strong in their own ways. There could be equipment kits that would be sniper, medic, and thief specific; gear that would allow other build types to have a chance instead of just being asphalt for the Big Gunner steamroller.
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You could also turn it into a collectors item like it used to be ;D
Remember ? 10-40 damage, good times ! And buff every other weapon then avenger while you're at it. Might make this mess more enjoyable.
But its funny that avv is suddenly against gatling lasers, I guess he became bored with his sneaker. Mb he switched to an avenger sneaker and realised that it's bad compared to his colleges anti-sneakers ;(
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Your whole thought process is wrong at the very core, players should be able to get the best and good equipment only if they work together and those who play alone will not have access to certain content the game provides, playing together is a better reward. It is like a universal principle which has been working very fine in a lot of popular games for a lot years and still persists in those who are coming out and will come.
I simply disagree. If only strongest get best gear, they remain strong and weak remain weak. Working as a team is always powerful because you simply have your buddies watching your back and you can share roles and whatever. It doesn't need any additional benefits.
It's okay that teamwork helps you to get gear faster, but if it's the only way to get so some sort of übergear that lolzpwns everything it's very bad. You got your excellent team, what do you need unique stuff for?
it's such a good concept when there is a resource struggle for something, anything and in this case it's weaponry, it is what drives players
I used to think like this but realized it's nonsense. Only thing that drives players is hope and chance to succeed. If there were mats that everyone wanted in some location but it was turbofarmed by faction that let nobody in, players would simply stop caring or enter it only when this faction wasn't there.
When hq minerals were released, they were very wanted stuff. But players who didn't have the means to defeat the pks camping the mine simply came in with bluesuit and primitive tool and during night time.
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Dont know which abuse you using but we getting them by regular fight.
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Its balanced, if you're getting killed by them then its about time you stop raging and switch to using ma mkII.
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I simply disagree. If only strongest get best gear, they remain strong and weak remain weak. Working as a team is always powerful because you simply have your buddies watching your back and you can share roles and whatever. It doesn't need any additional benefits.
It's okay that teamwork helps you to get gear faster, but if it's the only way to get so some sort of übergear that lolzpwns everything it's very bad. You got your excellent team, what do you need unique stuff for?
When all stuff can be obtained by one player, then I would say the difficulty bar is set very low.
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Exactly, avv forgets the game has to challenge the player to some extent, there's no better way than team-work and the necessity to work together as that is purely interaction, when you make a game where everyone can be self sufficient and do everything by yourself, well you get a game like now, loch ness monster is out there and it is real, but nobody has ever seen it and by loch ness monster I mean those players who you never see in the game and if such direction like avv's is taken the game will always be literally a deserted wasteland, because players will not have reason why to interact.
I used to think like this but realized it's nonsense. Only thing that drives players is hope and chance to succeed. If there were mats that everyone wanted in some location but it was turbofarmed by faction that let nobody in, players would simply stop caring or enter it only when this faction wasn't there.
If there were mats for players to have equal chance to compete for, there is always chance to succeed and if nobody challenges or isn't capable to challenge the faction your talking about, then that's purely the players fault not game design.
It's okay that teamwork helps you to get gear faster, but if it's the only way to get so some sort of übergear that lolzpwns everything it's very bad. You got your excellent team, what do you need unique stuff for?
I simply disagree. If only strongest get best gear, they remain strong and weak remain weak. Working as a team is always powerful because you simply have your buddies watching your back and you can share roles and whatever. It doesn't need any additional benefits.
You don't get it? Player interaction is why team-work is needed for and benefits to encourage it.
Encouragement, the reason players in World of Warcraft gather 40 players to go to raids is the unique reward, because it requires team-work, player interaction and the whole process is fun. Same principle can applied to any dungeon in 2238, at least should be, sure those resources can be dominated, but that's only more motivation for someone to move in and take control of it back, to fight for it. If someone lays down hands and say, "oh no they have a little bit better weapon and they organized we won't fight them", then how the fuck and why the fuck should the game baby sit these players, they don't want to compete and they won't compete unless decide otherwise and game features don't dictate whether they can or not if those feats are simply somewhat balanced, it's up to the player mainly.
Gatling is not so almighty powerful, if it will get dominated by certain group of players, then that's nothing you won't be able to handle by wearing metal armor, even better take advantage of the situation and wear Tesla on psycho tanks (shat, some BBS has done that more than once in Reno, hurts a lot).
So your weakling concept of scrub players is complete bullshit.
The real problem is that there aren't paths for different RPG classes to become strong in their own ways.
Very true, that means there is a lot to work for developers, but hey we know they have stopped balancing weaponry or armor, perks etc. etc.
Everything we talk about ends at this.
To what end? This game doesn't try to be a tactical shooter.
The future of 2238.
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Not if u know how. I like Gatling-Ma2/tesla and av/ca2 balance. I would say I miss new weapons
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Its balanced, if you're getting killed by them then its about time you stop raging and switch to using ma mkII.
even ca is hard pressed to protect against a minigun. But its too easy to abuse......
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If enclave had 400 HP and not so many OP crit/res they would still remain a chalenge while being a possible challenge for M60/Gatling tanks.
A player who had Enclave/BoS NPC stats would never die in-game, even a player with NCR Army stats would have advantage. ::)
Just removing a problematic weapon shouldn't be done, isn't there a more elegant option?
Making Enclave a farmable option via legit farming methods, which won't happen anytime soon.
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But triple888 atm the game encourages good teamwork extremely much already so it's not in bad state when it comes to that. Besides, players who prefer to work in team will do it no matter how much individual person can do alone.
I mean those players who you never see in the game and if such direction like avv's is taken the game will always be literally a deserted wasteland, because players will not have reason why to interact.
But that's not even true. Players won't go anywhere if they don't have what it takes to defend themselves. I go to places alone just fine because I have the stuff. If I didn't have then for sure I wouldn't show my face. Players interact when they got stuff.
Just think what it would be like if you had to do pvp to get superstims. Superstims are needed in pvp and now you'd need to have them before you go get them. When you start, you don't have ANY. How are you going to get superstims if you first need to defeat other players who already have superstims? Only effective and fast way I can think of is sneaking in when those guys aren't there.
If there were mats for players to have equal chance to compete for, there is always chance to succeed and if nobody challenges or isn't capable to challenge the faction your talking about, then that's purely the players fault not game design.
You seem to think that random individual players can just stick together and start working in organized way. Keep mind they might be members of individual groups who hate each other, they might talk different languages or just want to keep to themselves. Many players don't even want to use offgame programs such as teamspeak, let alone speak english fluently even though they write it well.
"oh no they have a little bit better weapon and they organized we won't fight them", then how the fuck and why the fuck should the game baby sit these players, they don't want to compete and they won't compete unless decide otherwise and game features don't dictate whether they can or not if those feats are simply somewhat balanced, it's up to the player mainly.
I happen to know how these things escalate. The side that has more troops in its pool just gathers more and more people if they get informed there are free targets somewhere. For example my alliance would definitely camp some location all day straight if non-stop fights were promised there and we can gather like 20 people.
This kind of fighting over resources works only if teams who enter are equal in size, but they aren't and there's nothing to limit it.
Gatling is not so almighty powerful, if it will get dominated by certain group of players, then that's nothing you won't be able to handle by wearing metal armor, even better take advantage of the situation and wear Tesla on psycho tanks (shat, some BBS has done that more than once in Reno, hurts a lot).
I don't think it's very good balance that your entire character can be countered by switching an armor.