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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: davrot on February 18, 2013, 10:49:26 am
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Camp corner
Inject stimpak
Take damage
Inject stimpak
1 hex someone
Inject stimpak
Fotky
Inject stimpak
One of the remaining problems with PvP on our beloved 2238 is the constant spam of SS which offer no downside except losing a meager amount of hit points. Either make stimpaks cost the same amount of AP as First Aid or put a 10 second cooldown on them.
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Chances are equal because you can do exactly the same, so what's the problem? I like the SS system, at least fights are more unpredictable.
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Chances are equal because you can do exactly the same, so what's the problem? I like the SS system, at least fights are more unpredictable.
The problem is that it all boils down to who can carry more SS making fights more bothersome.
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Well, I would disagree on that. Its uncommon for players to carry more that 5,6-7 SS, beacuse if you get ganked during the fight you will only manage to take 1-2 ss before you die anyway. So its somehow a balance between a risk of loosing too much ss and improving your chance of survival during a fight.
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So its somehow a balance between a risk of loosing too much ss and improving your chance of survival during a fight.
There is no risk in losing too much SS simply because it's so easy to obtain them, but that is a different story suitable for another topic. A drug that restores almost half of your total HP shouldn't be used so freely.
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I don't like the SS spamming either.
I think it promotes BGs and gatlings, because they can kill with one hit the most easily.
Damage from anything else will be just nullified by injecting SS.
It makes some silly situations when 3 people keep shooting and can't kill a player from range
because the person is spamming SS.
I think SS could be even more powerful (like - heal all HP) but harder to get and come with bigger
penalty because -3 -6hp is quite laughable considering in Fallout you healed much slower and
characters usually weren't such apes. Maybe they could be better when used by doctors and
not so good in the hands of 3 INT apes.
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Superstims could either drop your AP or damage resistance briefly after taking it, forcing the stimspammer to seek cover.
I think it promotes BGs and gatlings, because they can kill with one hit the most easily.
Damage from anything else will be just nullified by injecting SS.
But superstimpaks are also a counter against high ap high damage spike shots because they can heal faster than gatling or avenger deals damage from range. If there were no superstimaks, those high damage shots would be even better.
It makes some silly situations when 3 people keep shooting and can't kill a player from range
because the person is spamming SS.
He will definitely die in the end unless he manages to escape. It's just high HP builds have bigger advantage here.
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How about a SS healing debuff like several other MMO's handle mass healings? Instead of dealing damage after some time, each consecutive SS could heal 10% less hp for 30 seconds, stacking on itself, each use resetting the timer. Or let's say 20% if you stick to jovankas full hp suggestion.
That damage is a rather annoying and stupid remnant from F1/2 then a true drawback, It can kill you in respawn tent easily.
Didn't think quite much further yet so there must be surely some flaws, It's not an easy matter.
hugs&kisses
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I don't like the SS spamming either.
I think it promotes BGs and gatlings, because they can kill with one hit the most easily.
Damage from anything else will be just nullified by injecting SS.
It makes some silly situations when 3 people keep shooting and can't kill a player from range
because the person is spamming SS.
I think SS could be even more powerful (like - heal all HP) but harder to get and come with bigger
penalty because -3 -6hp is quite laughable considering in Fallout you healed much slower and
characters usually weren't such apes. Maybe they could be better when used by doctors and
not so good in the hands of 3 INT apes.
Just a personal story from last week:
Me and my friend Aoife where out and about doing what we love doing best, farming in TB, for whatever reason entered another encounter of press gang vs somthing else and was ofc doing fine. I notice some player entered started shooting with my laser spammer that is just about out of mfc and used radio communication to glean the updated position from my teammate (thats how we rock it, with radios) to learn from my partner that the player had been killed. city ruins are sometimes quite concealing..... too concealing ^^ Turns out there is another fellow named "riot trigger" inside our encounter, I send a salvo blast of 6 shots on his 186hp torso rendering him down to 7hp, feeling pretty relieved. Ammo is critically low maybe dozen rounds left on me, Im on the top half of the screen, aoife on the bottom. by radio im informed hes back up to full hp but shes on him! I'm now at the point of just trying to provide positional data and trying to help in what ever way i can. I find him in my fov, zap zap oh dear no ap to walk out, but did damage him pretty good. Now for the retribution! Pop pop burst .223 pistol followed by smg fire, a p90!, Jacks Juiced up! What drugs is he on, who knows, probably all of em! Oh my torso..., only 3 stims on me, better juice up and learn to stay further away! Aoife gos in closer tears him down to 12 hp, to no avail, SS to his rescue. This pitter patter cat and mouse game continues similarly till i run out of ammo and last I saw was enemy at full hp. I radio, "you still there?" ---- silence. I break for the right border edgehalf way there i see the telltale sign of a comrades fallen gear and then the sight of it being whisked away, at the edge I radio one last time "gg till we meet again".
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To be honest! There sould be an overdosage! after the 2nd SS you take another and you have the chance of overdosage and die instantly what ever was your HP... The same goes for the regualr drogs... choos what drogs you take!!! if you take more than 2 then you have the chance that your die from the overdosage! If you think this is harsh then think about on that the wastelands are harsh too... or just ask a real life junky how many frend of hes died from overdosage!
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Davrot said about cd on stims.i find it very interesting .i dont know if it has to be 10 secs.mb 5 secs will be enouph.what do u say?
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What about a combination of the cooldown/debuff to heal idea with a cumulative damage hit, instead of 5-9 hp, if you took 4 SS's you get hit for 50hp after a bit. *or some other reasonably high number*
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What about a combination of the cooldown/debuff to heal idea with a cumulative damage hit, instead of 5-9 hp, if you took 4 SS's you get hit for 50hp after a bit. *or some other reasonably high number*
Yes those 4-6HP damages are laughable. It should be 10% HP loss after a while.
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Superstims using as much action points as first-aid sounds good.
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I don't like this very much either, but SS spamming in a way does make fights longer by rendering characters more durable.
It makes some silly situations when 3 people keep shooting and can't kill a player from range
because the person is spamming SS.
I don't ever remember such problem without SS bind, maybe just disallow it.
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I don't ever remember such problem without SS bind, maybe just disallow it.
Then there could be cheaters with tools allowing them such binds.
Nerfing by making client interface less usable is very bad idea.
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Then there could be cheaters with tools allowing them such binds.
First time hearing about this.
Nerfing by making client interface less usable is very bad idea.
Because?
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Because anything client side can be hacked and there isn't easy way to catch or prove it.
Because user interface should be easy to use and help you in play, not obstruct it.
Providing PvP balance by making something hard to click in interface instead on keyboard is utterly stupid idea.
Also, maybe if you played a bit longer you would know that there were some Russian tools in the past.
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Stimpack - 2AP
SuperStim - 5AP
Sounds good.
Also being able to use FA or DOC in TB fight would be good.
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To be honest! There sould be an overdosage! after the 2nd SS you take another and you have the chance of overdosage and die instantly what ever was your HP... The same goes for the regualr drogs... choos what drogs you take!!! if you take more than 2 then you have the chance that your die from the overdosage!
Maybe not die instantly but I like the idea of an OD-penalty.
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Maybe not die instantly but I like the idea of an OD-penalty.
I think when overdosed, negative effects should stack, while positive effects shouldn't be applied at all.
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Point taken.
Set a CD on bind then, it never did make sense how someone can stuff himself with so much SS anyway.
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Point taken.
Set a CD on bind then, it never did make sense how someone can stuff himself with so much SS anyway.
It's easy, you have lots of them and you have lots of AP. But the truth is, if you take too many, there should be some consequences.
Reduced AP would be just fine. When you take SS, you get 30 seconds cooldown. If you take another SS in those 30s, your max AP will be reduced to 2/3 of your maximum for few minutes.
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That's a bit extreme and not very effective, maybe some chance to "overdose" and knock yourself out or down. :)
Kidding, I think the penalties shouldn't be all so harsh anyway, even with reduced action point amount player can still spam them, a little bit slower, but he can, so that won't be a solution unfortunately.
Or maybe I'm not kidding, because if the "overdose" would drain one or two action points when knocking the player down, if the player has none he would be knocked out, that way stop spamming them. Dunno if it that is the right approach.
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Woah woah woah! This is the first truly game system discussion I've seen where everyone has had interesting and useful input... Could this be the turning point? Well I for one am knocking on wood.
My suggestion is to remove the ss from the list of items easily stolen. Perhaps make it a hidden blocker, like brahmin hides, that only allows it to be looted on the NPCs death.
Also, I think a more expensive AP usage is defiantly in order, from a RP standpoint. A regular stim can simply be stabbed into the arm and the serum hits the blood system. The Super Stim has that weird neck brace thing and injects (from what I'm to understand) directly into the spinal cord.
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make SS unstealable? no no no no no no
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make SS unstealable? no no no no no no
Por que senyor?Por que?
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I seem to remember in Fallout 2 you could do assassinations with superstims, meaning if you injected too many the small amounts of damage from each would begin to stack and start acting like a serious poison. (Example: Getting hit with 60 - 100 damage might not be unreasonable if you've eaten 20 SS, so you would want to use less until the first doses begin to clear out of your character's system)
Remember too that the current game mechanic is leaning towards uberbuff encounters and high HP soaking is one of the few ways of dealing with the excessive amounts of damage this game throws at you. You can still get instakilled five ways from sunday even with SS usage.
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Set a CD on bind then, it never did make sense how someone can stuff himself with so much SS anyway.
I think it is not a bad idea. Like 10sec or something.
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Could be simply tiny FA cooldown when using healing drug, something like 600/FA seconds,
so with 300% FA you would have 2s with 100% 6s, with 50% 12s...
And the Medic perk halving them could apply, so doctors could go down to 1s cd with it.
And of course no using healing drugs if you have FA cd.
Although it would block drug healing if you used skill.
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What about raising idling timer to 10 sec for each superstimpack ?
After all, your body is still recovering, you shouldn't be able to fight efficiently.
Or make the SS a progressive thing, instead of an instant thing ?
For instance, instead of getting 100hp in one second, you get 10hp on the first second, 10 more hp on the next one. So, to get 100hp you will have to wait 10 seconds. (or maybe more quickly, but still progressive)
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What about raising idling timer
Idling Timer isn't for this and it shouldn't be used for things it's not for.
It's increased in situations where you can idle safely with combat-ready characters.
Applying it in random situations as some kind of general penalty would make no sense.
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IDK this overdose stuff doesn't sound compelling. A risk for instant death is the wrong way to go. And I count "knockdown" to instant death too.
My suggestion is to remove the ss from the list of items easily stolen. Perhaps make it a hidden blocker, like brahmin hides, that only allows it to be looted on the NPCs death.
Also, I think a more expensive AP usage is defiantly in order, from a RP standpoint. A regular stim can simply be stabbed into the arm and the serum hits the blood system. The Super Stim has that weird neck brace thing and injects (from what I'm to understand) directly into the spinal cord.
Excuse me but.... What bullshit is this ?? RP standpoint ? No steal ?
This is not about making it unobtainable, it's about making it less OVERPOWERED. Making something more rare or more common doesn't automatically mean its going to be less or more powerful, all it leads to is more grinding. Stealing is already nerfed, don't screw it.
Don't try to nerf something cuz it just doesn't suit your economic interests, also keep your RP outta muh PVP.
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Yeah nerfing stealing more to make SS harder to get won't change people using them. I'm not for the knockdown or insta-death, but a way harsher hit to HP, and maybe the AP reduction, along with overall healing decrease are all good ideas.
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Or make the SS a progressive thing, instead of an instant thing ?
For instance, instead of getting 100hp in one second, you get 10hp on the first second, 10 more hp on the next one. So, to get 100hp you will have to wait 10 seconds. (or maybe more quickly, but still progressive)
Like poison but in reverse, you gain hps. if it took 10 turns (in tb) to get your 100 hps, id be kool with that. You shouldnt take 200 points of damage in a round and be able to shrug it of, damn! that left a mark!
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Well, turning SS into a "hot" sounds interesting, but I think It won't solve anything. That would encourage spaming even more, I believe. You'd inject them up front hp losses, and while you reg nothing hinders you from shooting. Just shoot, inject 5 SS and shoot , inject 5 SS and so on.
It will make you inflexible too, no chance to react on new situations or change tactics, if you ask me, the famous "BG tank in the middle doing nothing but swallowing SS" will be buffed instead of nerfed.
UNLESS you have future sight, I think this is unpractical too. But maybe some more powerful healing drug that heals over time could be introduced ? Or changed to, let's say stimpacks healing the same amount of HP as Super Stims but slowly over time, That would be nice, they feel so obsolete atm.
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Cooldown based on FA skill as Jovanka said, or gradual increase in hit points over time. None of this insta-healing miracle drug. SS should just offer you a chance to get to cover, not base your survival on it.
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I still think having the superstims poison you after using too many is the way to go. If you get hit with -100 HP intermittently after using twenty, you'll either be much frailer on the battlefield, or you'll be forced to switch to regular stims to keep you alive as the SS pass out of your system. The original fallout games already had this natural limitation on SS stim use, so why not implement an existing mechanic instead of reinventing the wheel?
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because it isnt f2, and here all fights are more dynamics. ss are fine and dont take it away. i can understand u dont like situation when u shoot 1guy for 200+ damage and he have only 10hp left and he just ss himself before u can shoot with 3rd round and u have to reload and also eat ss. well u need to think how u can defeat him before u will shoot him, and i dont like idea of nerfing ss. maby we should nerf fa and doc? no fa and no doc if u dont have doc or first aid bag? ;D all ncr doctors and rgp players wonlt like it, arent they? well same pvp players dont like when non pvp people suggest how to balance pvp if they dont know how it works in bigger scale.
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because it isnt f2, and here all fights are more dynamics. ss are fine and dont take it away. i can understand u dont like situation when u shoot 1guy for 200+ damage and he have only 10hp left and he just ss himself before u can shoot with 3rd round and u have to reload and also eat ss. well u need to think how u can defeat him before u will shoot him, and i dont like idea of nerfing ss. maby we should nerf fa and doc? no fa and no doc if u dont have doc or first aid bag? ;D all ncr doctors and rgp players wonlt like it, arent they? well same pvp players dont like when non pvp people suggest how to balance pvp if they dont know how it works in bigger scale.
Please enlighten us all on the "bigger scale" how popping SS repeatedly every round to keep you alive like red potions in diablo ][ is strategic tactical combat?
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Many weapons can deal almost 200+ damage in 2bursts after which u Have only few hp left. During large battles 15vs15 spmetimes u Have to be a "wall"and u are taking serious damage for ur team. If we nerf ss all fights will be like hinkley. Boom shoot u 2times and u are dead no matter what u will do. All pvp will be changed who shooted someone first because That guy wont Have chance to heal himself. And many people will just hide to take 6ss to get their hp back. It isnt tactical shooter it is 2d game, how u can doc ur cripled limbs or heal ur radiation or Carry 1ton of stuff in ur pocket?
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Many weapons can deal almost 200+ damage in 2bursts after which u Have only few hp left. During large battles 15vs15 spmetimes u Have to be a "wall"and u are taking serious damage for ur team. If we nerf ss all fights will be like hinkley. Boom shoot u 2times and u are dead no matter what u will do. All pvp will be changed who shooted someone first because That guy wont Have chance to heal himself. And many people will just hide to take 6ss to get their hp back. It isnt tactical shooter it is 2d game, how u can doc ur cripled limbs or heal ur radiation or Carry 1ton of stuff in ur pocket?
Totally agree. Don't make pvp simmilar to hinkely because it will be a step back. Besides if you're a first person in a rape train or a small rush usually most fire will focus on you, so without a proper way to quickly regain hp you will end up dead in no time.
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Please enlighten us all on the "bigger scale" how popping SS repeatedly every round to keep you alive like red potions in diablo ][ is strategic tactical combat?
It's not alway strategic or anything, it's just something players have to do in pvp because there is no other choice. Like Rage Master explained, combat would be even dumber if there was no fast way to heal up fast. 2 bursts and everything except max hp tank is dead.
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well same pvp players dont like when non pvp people suggest how to balance pvp if they dont know how it works in bigger scale.
Well I would be glad to hear your explanation how it works in bigger scale, from a man who can't even decide with which forum alt will he post.
The suggestion has been made, Jovanka has a great idea to make FA more usable with which I agree. I hope this issue will be fixed in one way or another in the following updates, then we can resume our bickering in the update threads.
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Fa wont change anything. It is just small hp boost. Try to wait 2min cd for another fa, and fa is random. Ss were are and will be good support for longer and more excited fights and i know some non pvp players dont like it because they cant kill 1gopd pvp tank with their crafters even when it is 3vs1.
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Many weapons can deal almost 200+ damage in 2bursts after which u Have only few hp left. During large battles 15vs15 spmetimes u Have to be a "wall"and u are taking serious damage for ur team. If we nerf ss all fights will be like hinkley. Boom shoot u 2times and u are dead no matter what u will do. All pvp will be changed who shooted someone first because That guy wont Have chance to heal himself. And many people will just hide to take 6ss to get their hp back. It isnt tactical shooter it is 2d game, how u can doc ur cripled limbs or heal ur radiation or Carry 1ton of stuff in ur pocket?
Fa wont change anything. It is just small hp boost. Try to wait 2min cd for another fa, and fa is random. Ss were are and will be good support for longer and more excited fights and i know some non pvp players dont like it because they cant kill 1gopd pvp tank with their crafters even when it is 3vs1.
Ah yes the time honored tradition of sending the bullet stopping wall sucking down super healing potions strategically in a straight line into machine gun, rocket and high intensity plasma death fire.
Your right, without stims your shitty 1hexxer straight line combat rambozo guru would naturally be killed, as he should be.
You guys are absolutely riduculous, if "these" methods are the tactics you've honed so well and are particularly proud of, you should take a step back, take a breath and ask yourself "seriously"?
This is my last post on this thread, I've lost interest in engaging with people who believe in such utter nonsense. Theres nothing useful to be gleaned here, as Captain said "Beam me up Scotty, there's no intelligent life here". Id much rather have an argument with a tree.
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What if SS use would always put you to -2 AP? Using one would be similar to knockdown where you can't do shit until you get to positive AP numbers. This way when you use one you get knockdown effects (maybe not the animation) which makes your AC 0 and increases change to hit so you can't just sit there and spam SS.
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no. you dont know how it works when u are target of 5 people. ss are fine and if u cant kill enemy with ur m60, because he is in ca2 full tank and he is eating ss like candies, think if u should use gatling or sniper. please first try pvp for few weeks and later try to "balance" pvp. ss are fine and i hope jov wont touch this.
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please first try pvp for few weeks and later try to "balance" pvp. ss are fine and i hope jov wont touch this.
If your the target of five people, you should be dead. Period, point, end of story. Mega-spams just make things intolerable. And yes, I may be an "RP" player, but I have spent many a long night fighting in New Reno, and taking the cows of Modoc as well. I understand how PvP works, I also understand that a team with 10 BG/Tanks is always going to be better than a team with a variety of play styles and skills. To me, that is the what makes PvP broken.
@Jov; I really like and agree with tying the use of healing drugs to your FA or Doc, because it widens the need for a varied team. It would make the Wasteland Docs a valued resource, rather than the ass end of ape jokes.
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It's not alway strategic or anything, it's just something players have to do in pvp because there is no other choice. Like Rage Master explained, combat would be even dumber if there was no fast way to heal up fast. 2 bursts and everything except max hp tank is dead.
Then how about changing the perspective once in a while and nerf BGs additionally since all other weapon types and LSW have suffered a drastic loss in their competitiveness too?
Oh right, that would be against your personal preference and beloved concept of BGonline, ain't it so, AVengerV?
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bg are almost usless in combat, except nr. full gatling/rl tank is almost imposible to kill by avenger. ss are fine and shooting with hunting rifle in nr isnt same what me ant other tc oriented people are doing. mass scale fast and dynamic fights. if u want to use fa in pvp u are wrong my frined and i dont care about ur usless doctor.
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bg are almost usless in combat, except nr. full gatling/rl tank is almost imposible to kill by avenger. ss are fine and shooting with hunting rifle in nr isnt same what me ant other tc oriented people are doing. mass scale fast and dynamic fights. if u want to use fa in pvp u are wrong my frined and i dont care about ur usless doctor.
FA skill would be used to determine SS cooldown, nobody was talking about crafters with hunting rifles. You can relax with your muh dynamik tk batluhs talk.
and taking the cows of Modoc as well.
This made me chuckle.
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ss are only thing what keeps pvp fun and longer. just imagina all fights would like hinkley. well if u want hinkley style go there and everything will be fine. and if u are target of 5 people and u have proper build u can take all damage and still be alive. tank+stonewall is v useful vs snipers and rl bgs.
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bg are almost usless in combat
And you call other people noobs?
And gatling >laser< is an EW weapon.
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avngers are crap, deal with it. lsw are crap, same m60 in tc. last good one weapon is rocket launcher.
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Explains why everyone is using them ::)
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They are good vs snipers and in nr. They are v weak in tc. Most of people use rl/gatlings/snipers. Tank in ca2 can take 4-5av bursts. They are short-med range weapon good in hexing
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Mike and Davrot are just 2 really big noobs who have pvp once per a 2-3 months, so stop talking shit about ss because you only know fights 1vs1, and in big fights and tc its different, you get focus fire, so you are immediately dead, so ss are fine. First learn how to play in big fights and after that start opening some topics noobs.
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I see the PvP experts have assembled in full force, I can only hope I will have sufficient SS to protect me from this onslaught.
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Better use little less of google translate and you dont have sense of humor at all, so instead of being funny, you are just being stupid.
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Better use little less of google translate.
It's called an education. Now you can go back to your trade threads.
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I don't like this very much either, but SS spamming in a way does make fights longer by rendering characters more durable.
FA skill would be used to determine SS cooldown, nobody was talking about crafters with hunting rifles. You can relax with your muh dynamik tk batluhs talk.
Limiting the use of SS is not a good idea, some players here have made good points.
The damage average builds can dish out is incredibly high, such limitations would dumb down combat even more.
I'd see CD on SS correct in terms of game play if the average damage of commonly used weaponry in game would be decreased, only then it would truly make sense.
None of this insta-healing miracle drug. SS should just offer you a chance to get to cover, not base your survival on it.
That's the whole point of SS providing instant healing effect, your logic is simply flawed and your not well informed on the subject.
Stimpak, or stimulation delivery package, is a type of hand-held medication used for healing the body. This item consists of a syringe for containing and delivering the medication and a gauge for measuring the status of the stimpak's contents. When the medicine is injected, it provides immediate healing of the body's minor wounds.
That is just the kind of drug someone would count their life on.
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Ahh the marvelous Ivic,the only person ever to be kicked out of WB.
Seeing how you recently spent 20k for a 100 stims,I get why you are defending them.
But of course instead of bringing valid points you just go for dated insults.Posting random sh*t every step of the way.
Though I doubt that anyone will take you seriously since you are not the most trustworthy person out there,if you know what I mean.
And please,don't offend the people that helped you.
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Well, you never helped me, if you know what i mean. You are just one big pizda!! ;)
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I don't like the SS spamming either.
I will help you. Implement idler state after injecting SS. 30s penalty. Is that good Jovanka? Would it make this game better? Am i right?
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No it wouldn't, Idling Timer is for another purpose.
This thread is about spamming SS not Idler so stick to the topic.
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Ss are fine. Only noobs cry they cant kill pvp ape. I bet after ss spaming they will start crying about hexing. Remove 1hex because they are hexing us :D
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You are just one big pizda!! ;)
English my friend,is the language you should be using in this subforum.
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You know what i mean, and its enough! ;)))
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You know what i mean, and its enough! ;)))
No actually I don't :( ,PM me the answer
Eh,this topic seems to have taken a turn to the offtopic seas.