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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gimper on January 22, 2013, 01:41:53 am
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Make gathering ores and resources unlimited again... Put the timer back, and make resources unlimited. The game was better back then. Who cares about "realistic", make it fun!
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I don't like the global limit for the ore either. It reduces all the interactions in the mines to shooting
everything that moves, because if they will get the ore then you won't. Maybe it was made to promote
competition, I don't know, but from my point of view it just made the game more primitive shooter.
I think players didn't really need any more incentives to kill each other in the mines.
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Going back to last session's system could encourage people to create several miner alts, but I still prefer that over the current system because of what Jovanka said, and because it really sucks when you have only a few hours to play and you can't get materials :P
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Make gathering ores and resources unlimited again... Put the timer back, and make resources unlimited. The game was better back then. Who cares about "realistic", make it fun!
And change barter skill to gather skill, the more skill you have, the less time you wait
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So are you trying to say, that it was better back then, when you mined precious minerals/ore, gained 20m cd and were killed ?
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So are you trying to say, that it was better back then, when you mined precious minerals/ore, gained 20m cd and were killed ?
Exactly. MUCH better.
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So long as there is no timer for junk gathering... That's idiotic. The gather timer better simulates the ores running out for that particular player's instance.
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Yes, either hasten the respawn process or bring back the old system because mines right now are getting constantly depleted by the increased player base.
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And after the possible future wipe you won't be able to craft anything for the first weeks.
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Yes, either hasten the respawn process or bring back the old system because mines right now are getting constantly depleted by the increased player base.
lol there is no increase in player base, it's just the usual no life's camping resources
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Current system is fine; every time an unnecessary cooldown is introduced it just makes the gameplay jerkier. If I can hit a mine once for 400 iron ore, I won't have to visit it again for a long time which means reduced competition for other players.
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.... no increase in player base.....
Are you crazy? A few moths ago the player base was like 40-60 on a good day. Now it's usually 120 players a day, sometimes more.
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Are you crazy? A few moths ago the player base was like 40-60 on a good day. Now it's usually 120 players a day, sometimes more.
truth, but could be a lot of dual logs.
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Could be, but why would all the players just start randomly duel logging now?
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My personal opinion is that I would like to see it go back to mining in random encounters. Cave maps would be perfect for this.
Maybe a mix of both. Resources depleting at public mines, and limited resources in random encounters. It would give players more options, and the time it would take to find an encounter and collect the materials would stand in as a cool down.
.02
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There is no gathering timer that would make the game funner, but making the resources replenish faster would sure help. Also, go to each mine and fix the rocks that appear to be mine-able but are not working ("that does nothing"). Those seem to just be "turned off" or something, but if those were enabled, there would be more rocks to hammer.
And WD's idea would help a lot too - add mining rocks in the wild, in caves. Also fix Super Sledge to work as a mining hammer. Oh and the dynamite thing. Guess i should stop right there.
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And WD's idea would help a lot too - add mining rocks in the wild, in caves. Also fix Super Sledge to work as a mining hammer. Oh and the dynamite thing. Guess i should stop right there.
Now that I think about it, adding rocks to certain maps that are able to be mined would just promote encounter spamming like we do with fruit or trees. Drop in, check the map, if what we want isn't there, exit. Maybe a better way to do it is have rocks spawn when cave mobs do, in random places like footlockers in ruins encounters. Maybe 2 ore, maybe 20. Maybe minerals spawn. Maybe neither.
Unfortunately this also adds more grinding to the game, but at least we would have to risk something to gain something, unlike we do now with public mines. Even the unguarded ones aren't much of a risk, except for maybe loss of sledgehammer. I think this would also reduce miner alting.
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, but making the resources replenish faster would sure help.
This may bring back gangs controlling mines for others... Since a faster repleneshing mine will promote factions vying for control so they can mine at their leisure. I'm down with this idea...
Factions guarding mines was a really interesting part of FOnline that I remember when I started playing 3 years ago.
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Current system is fine; every time an unnecessary cooldown is introduced it just makes the gameplay jerkier. If I can hit a mine once for 400 iron ore, I won't have to visit it again for a long time which means reduced competition for other players.
400 ore is nothing.
I'd rather go inside a mine full of people killing all dem blewshuttss every 20 minutes than having to compete with obsessed crafters who will just keep carpets of whatever they use the ore for and never actually use the crafted stuff.
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Ok so again, previous system promoted alting (1 alt 20m cd => log in another one, mine for 20m cd => repeat with zillion of miner alts) and meaningless concentration (find 4 spots with all neccessary ores/minerals and never have to go elsewhere again).
Then if we move even further to the past, where you could mine in several random encounters, applies above mentioned nonsense PLUS there is no risk involved, unlike mining in a public place.
Present system aint perfect, but its definitely better than it was seasons before. So either find a new, better mining solution or polish the current one.
My idea how to improve it is to have limited resources in caves, just like Marko proposed (involves risk, no alting, camping...) in addition to current mining. Also another solution could be changing how those ore/mineral veins perform. Every guy could mine out only X % of the vein's current yield with a certain cd. So when another guy comes in, there will always be some amount of ore/minerals, because one guy wouldnt be able to mine out everything by himself.
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Or simply kick the alts and fr out and there wont be problem with mining.
No more wave of alts and fr ! (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27391.msg234545.html#msg234545)
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This may bring back gangs controlling mines for others... Since a faster repleneshing mine will promote factions vying for control so they can mine at their leisure. I'm down with this idea...
I've said it before and I will say it again, factions don't control mines and never did, there has never been anything to control in a sense someone might think.
I'd rather go inside a mine full of people killing all dem blewshuttss every 20 minutes than having to compete with obsessed crafters who will just keep carpets of whatever they use the ore for and never actually use the crafted stuff.
The mines were just as empty previously, players used multiple alts to gain very much resources in a short period of time. Those who didn't know how to take advantage of it, simply were put at a disadvantage. That means unlimited amount of resources on demand and the restriction having whatsoever no reason to exist in first place, especially now that you can use alts easier than ever.
I don't like the global limit for the ore either. It reduces all the interactions in the mines to shooting
everything that moves, because if they will get the ore then you won't. Maybe it was made to promote
competition, I don't know, but from my point of view it just made the game more primitive shooter.
I think players didn't really need any more incentives to kill each other in the mines.
Global limit was meant to solve issue with alts, this system has achieved its goal.
There is no connection to how players will interact based on the way of gaining resources, it is an unguarded location, when a player goes there he expects hostility, there are no restrictions of killing players on sight and it will happen no matter how you obtain ore.
Let us presume that there is no global limit or any kind of it and players don't need to compete at all, that doesn't mean players won't kill for the resource, because it will still be faster than digging it on your own and just because it is an unguarded location.
I personally don't see any problem with current system, each time I go to mine something the mine is full of resources.
You could just increase the speed of regenerating the resources so casuals have an easier time, nothing else should be changed.
Or simply kick the alts and fr out and there wont be problem with mining.
No more wave of alts and fr ! (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php/topic,27391.msg234545.html#msg234545)
This system solved the problem with alts, you don't have any reason or any way how to do it with multiple alts.
Don't post random stuff.
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Don't post random stuff.
Again, defeted by the master of words:
(http://s1.postimage.org/w8rvjne5b/Triptroll_Pederas.jpg)
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I don't get it, what is the deal with picture. ;D
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I've said it before and I will say it again, factions don't control mines and never did, there has never been anything to control in a sense someone might think.
Yeah.. they.. have?
I've seen plenty of geared men standing guard at unsafe mines letting in (Depending on what faction was guarding)
the bad fucks or the good fucks. And defending the blue suits...
If this isn't "Controlling" an area, I'm not sure what is. Just because there's no magic chest spewing items for the largest faction in the game, doesn't mean that a large faction with enough dedication and firepower couldn't control a mine and decide who to let in and who to destroy.
I'm not entirely sure why you said this at all...
ANYONE can control ANYTHING... other than guarded towns really... unless you have enough suicide bursters to kill anyone anytime...
Theoretically any faction can control any town or location in this game.
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Factions don't control mines, never had and never will.
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Factions don't control mines, never had and never will.
I think you're allowing definition to blind you of what clearly has happened in the past.
REGARDLESS of any or no rewards being given out for doing it... people have controlled the mines.
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I think you're allowing definition to blind you of what clearly has happened in the past.
I think T888 faction wasn't interested in this kind of activity, so maybe he isn't aware some people
were doing it in the past (remember he is also a relatively new player, so he has even more limited
perspective about this subject).
Now it makes no sense at all to let random people mine (which various people were doing on more
or less regular basis), because not only it's dangerous but also you won't get the ores yourself.
This reduced opportunities to interact with other people in other way than shooting them.
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I think you're allowing definition to blind you of what clearly has happened in the past.
REGARDLESS of any or no rewards being given out for doing it... people have controlled the mines.
Uh, no I am not.
I am just from a faction, large one and there is no point of "controlling" mines, because you really can't achieve anything with that, because there are other mines and it would serve no purpose at all and that being a waste of time.
You mean some guys camping for short while and leaving? They can't prevent you from obtaining resources, you will get them later or you will go to another mine, nobody goes to control mines, maybe kill some noobs like you for fun.
Now it makes no sense at all to let random people mine (which various people were doing on more
or less regular basis), because not only it's dangerous but also you won't get the ores yourself.
This reduced opportunities to interact with other people in other way than shooting them.
The regeneration speed is quite fast, it is just not worth the effort to not let random people mine, you go in and dig resources, what are you going to camp all time all day to not let some noobs dig some resources you most probably don't need anymore?
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I think T888 faction wasn't interested in this kind of activity, so maybe he isn't aware some people
were doing it in the past (remember he is also a relatively new player, so he has even more limited
perspective about this subject).
Wouldn't expect such arrogance in that case.
Now it makes no sense at all to let random people mine (which various people were doing on more
or less regular basis), because not only it's dangerous but also you won't get the ores yourself.
Exactly, large factions standing guard to allow only their men or allies to reap the benefits of hq resources or resources in GENERAL.
Those were fun days... Made for interesting Sneak/miner builds.
This reduced opportunities to interact with other people in other way than shooting them.
Or increases opportunities for alliances, and larger factions.. cuts down on smaller 5 man factions.
Uh, no I am not.
I am just from a faction, large one and there is no point of "controlling" mines
The regeneration speed is quite fast, it is just not worth the effort to not let random people mine, you go in and dig resources
Wow... you are not paying attention to the conversation AT ALL.
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Exactly, large factions standing guard to allow only their men or allies to reap the benefits of hq resources or resources in GENERAL.
It's been a year in this session, our faction from begging thought that we might need to control the resources, but we found out they spawn way too fast and it is too much effort, not sure how previously it was possible to control mines other than just camp there and be hostile, we just do it in towns.
In practice nobody controls mines and its resources, what has happened years ago is of no relevance as nothing suggest something might change suddenly.
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It's been a year in this session, our faction from begging thought that we might need to control the resources, but we found out they spawn way too fast and it is too much effort, not sure how previously it was possible to control mines other than just camp there and be hostile, we just do it in towns.
In practice nobody controls mines and its resources, what has happened years ago is of no relevance as nothing suggest something might change suddenly.
When we're discussing the reverting of a system back to the way it WAS.. YEAH IT'S RELEVANT dude...
No one is talking about this session, READ THE POSTS before posting...
No one is talking about controlling mines with the current system. READ
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No it is not, current system suggests that the players would be interested in denying resources for other players due to global pool, but previous session and before resources weren't globally restricted and were unlimited despite the character gathering timeout and there was less motivation to control them.
Now it makes no sense at all to let random people mine
It makes no sense, but it doesn't happen in practice and previous systems doesn't suggest otherwise therefore it is irrelevant to discuss it.
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No it is not, current system suggests that the players would be interested in denying resources for other players due to global pool
In theory, yes... but in practice we've all seen less population at the mines due to less alting and people knowing that the mines are MOST LIKELY depleted.
Previous system INCREASED population to mines. INCREASED crafting rates.. INCREASED player/faction interaction at mines as a result.
When I first started playing... as a lone player it was almost impossible to go into a mine to get HQ resources as a result of factions almost always guarding with mercs or players.
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There is less population now than years ago, also less alts used in mines and a system can't increase player and faction interaction by itself, current system proves it over the previous one, now that the player is more motivated than ever to control them it is not happening on a daily basis.
Previous system INCREASED population to mines. INCREASED crafting rates.. INCREASED player/faction interaction at mines as a result.
So, no it didn't, no it didn't and no it didn't.
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So, no it didn't, no it didn't and no it didn't.
As a new player how could you possibly attest to how the mining population was 2-3 years ago?
I know for a fact back then it was EXTREMELY hard to SAFELY mine with so many players alting/hogging the deposits.
Did you play when this video was made? If not, I highly doubt you realize how highly populated mines were in comparison to now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP1YW0A-IU8
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Mining and gathering might as well be unlimited because players are limited by their personal time when it comes to obtaining stuff so trying to limit the gathering for those who are already limited is pointless. Hoarders will hoard no matter what.
Only thing that matters is "hoard to power value". A value I just came up with. It describes how much power you can instantly unleash on other players from your farmed items. It basically means how much you can harm other players by being simply very rich.
Mercs have very high hoard to power value. A single gun or armor has small value. Small is recommendable because the more equal players are in terms of how much raw power they can hold in their hands compared to how much stuff they have stored up, the better the game will be.
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As a new player how could you possibly attest to how the mining population was 2-3 years ago?
What year it was exactly?
http://i47.tinypic.com/abnq5h.gif
Chart made by JovankaB
How can I know, I gather and evaluate data, it is what I like to do.
I've talked with some very experienced players and long time ago there were just a lot of players and there was something to do, just because there were a lot of players. So, put more players in the same space and you will see players more frequently in mines, in cities etc. etc. and that brings possible activity to it, then players are motivated to camp and control mines or whatever even if it is not entirely doable, just because there is sufficient amount of players to interact with, even if it means killing them. Lots and lots of new players to kill, that is just a good reason for many players to camp those mines, but currently it is not, because there are not that many players visiting them, there is a lot less players playing in general so less chance for something like that to even happen.
I get back to square one, players never had and never will control mines in a sense you might think. To be crystal clear, not in a sense of controlling resources in it, the mining system has nothing to do with it.
I highly doubt you realize how highly populated mines were in comparison to now.
I do realize, much more players in the server and mines much more populated, how could I not imagine that?
As a new player
New player. Bi*ch please, it is irrelevant, logic beats time. :)
Where was I?
Oh yeah, current system is just better.
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He has a problem understanding this because it doesn't fit with what he thinks he already knows.
I'm pretty sure what LostSoul is talking about, are the instances where a group of people would "guard" the mine from PK's like me. So players could mine with a little bit of safety.
They gained nothing from this, there was no reward system or game mechanic that supported it. The only reason to do it was out of kindness.
Not to control resources, not to gain anything.
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He has a problem understanding this because it doesn't fit with what he thinks he already knows.
I'm pretty sure what LostSoul is talking about, are the instances where a group of people would "guard" the mine from PK's like me. So players could mine with a little bit of safety.
They gained nothing from this, there was no reward system or game mechanic that supported it. The only reason to do it was out of kindness.
Not to control resources, not to gain anything.
And there were times were PK factions would stand guard killing low level bluesuit miners.
Both sides did the same thing, and it added a changing world dynamic which was amazing.
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They gained nothing from this, there was no reward system or game mechanic that supported it. The only reason to do it was out of kindness.
Or out of hostility, I do understand.
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And there were times were PK factions would stand guard killing low level bluesuit miners.
Both sides did the same thing, and it added a changing world dynamic which was amazing.
Well, of course.
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That is something I previously expressed.
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That is something I previously expressed.
You also previously expressed that there was no need to control resources at mines, which was rarely if ever the intention.
Nice thread derailment, though.
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400 ore is nothing.
I'd rather go inside a mine full of people killing all dem blewshuttss every 20 minutes than having to compete with obsessed crafters who will just keep carpets of whatever they use the ore for and never actually use the crafted stuff.
Your statements here don't make sense; first you're saying 400 ore in one shot isn't enough and second you're saying you can't compete with obsessive carpet-weavers. If I only use 400 ore with carpet and you use 800 ore without carpet in the same time period, then it is you who are the larger drain on the resource availability.
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Your statements here don't make sense; first you're saying 400 ore in one shot isn't enough and second you're saying you can't compete with obsessive carpet-weavers. If I only use 400 ore with carpet and you use 800 ore without carpet in the same time period, then it is you who are the larger drain on the resource availability.
It doesn't matter how many resources I take, because they will actually be used for something.
If I kill something with something made with the resources in TC then it's cool, I did my part for PVP, if I die, well, someone else will take the stuff and keep using it for what it was meant to be used for so either way the ore went into something meaningful.
That gives me free pass, they might as well give me the mines... ::)
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And WD's idea would help a lot too - add mining rocks in the wild, in caves. Also fix Super Sledge to work as a mining hammer. Oh and the dynamite thing. Guess i should stop right there.
No, you have a good idea here; make dynamite blasting confer a 15% chance of spawning a free private mine if done at a certain mountain map type.
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No, you have a good idea here; make dynamite blasting confer a 15% chance of spawning a free private mine if done at a certain mountain map type.
This.... sounds fun as fuck....
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I have to say I love this idea of blasting the mountain side. How about the cave maps that are blocked with piles of rocks can be blasted open and inside those caves there is better loot and higher level creatures. Maybe have a chance to find pre war smugglers cache with guns or drugs or a robot companion(robobrain?) trapped in a cave.