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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Lordus on March 12, 2010, 11:23:18 pm
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Today night, we fought against DMC. Well, not against them, against their mutants. They had cca 20 supermutants with rocket launchers.. Price for one is 15k caps. Ok, VSB and NA have enough money to do the same tactics, but we dont want to fihgt npc we want to fight real players.. Until devs will raise the price of supermutants, we will not fight AGAINST SUPERMUTANTS. Because this realy sucks. With fast relog, we cant be in the city. This realy sucks.
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cry more :/
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price doesnt matter when u get money out of the air ...
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imo remove super mutant mercs
pvp should be pvp not fkin pets.. its so stupid
and fix the amount of mercs you can drag around.
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If you could get have only 1 or 2 supermutants with 10 charisma it might work better. But ye... price is way too low :)
Quite funny fight NA had there. Players swarm swarmed by NPC swarm.
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Now Super Mutants are only for rich players (or exploiters) change system of buying mutants from all server to block on one players example player buy mutant for 3k (15k minigun 20k rocket luncher) in his window he see next mutant for 5k (20k mini 28 for rocket) etc
or limit of mutants for one player with name "Richman" can buy one time 4-5 but if he buy 4 he can on all OBT buy only 56 (limit 60 mutants for person)
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http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2357.0
mercenary system is extremely terrible, need high-quality processing and rework
sometime we play in MMORTS Fonline:Mutants Everywhere
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funny war, 20 mutants camping grids :P
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we can have 40 supermutants camping the grids, but this is not funny
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buy mutants for all money what u have and NA have and camp with 70 mutants in the town ;] just u need 14 players with 9 charisma and magnetic personality perk ;]
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Yes that sounds funny, lets make it happen. Everyone should buy mutants and swarm Modoc :)
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yeee ;D big mutants fight ^^ create many of merc/taxi people and buy mutants ;D
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Well merc system is already pointed out for developers and I they will take closer look at it. Anyway price should not be only factor that decides who comes with you and who not. Yes they are mercenaries, but they have their dignity and pride = some local punkhead smallgunner is more likely to follow you rather than supermutant. So lets say that "low" mercs would require less charisma/skills to come with you and you could take 4(?) with you, but with same statistic you could bring only 1 or 2 supermuties.
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Dead Master's Crew is a faction, not an alliance. Our numbers are naturally fewer than NA, so we use all possible (legal) means to overwhelm. This includes trading to get the money for mutants (which cost 32+K now, not some 15-20), training our members (some of us visit you often in your nightmares, don't they? ;) ) and developing better tactical solutions for every city.
I am proud of my faction for today's deeds; and I can't stand an opportunity to muttiply our ranks: read our recruitment thread and PM me today for your trial period =)
However, back to topic. No change is needed, because after wipe Town Control will work in a different way, thus making it impossible for one faction/alliance to control all towns at once. Let's wait and see? But I am afraid you still will remain unhappy and feeling unfairly robbed of your superiority; well, as Suvorov once said - quality over quantity. Find your counter-solution or remain a part of pre-DMC history =)
Long Live the Dead Master! Dixi.
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You don't understand... this is not about whining and feeling treated unfair. Its about game mechanics and what should and should not be possible to do. Do you think bringing 20+ mercenaries into the fight should be that easy to execute? Imho same rules as suggested within slavery topic (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=2445.0) could apply with mercs. For buying alot of mercs and letting them die some -karma and as outcome no new merc would come with you and so on... just read through that topic I linked and you will understand what I mean.
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Sius, I understand your point, seriously; but you are wrong saying it is easy to bring/control 20 mutants.
1) they are expensive and Broken Hills is not a safe place to bring 150K caps with you
2) they are hard to control - slow, break when ammo is over, attacking other mercs, not following orders (a bunch of problems at once), friendly fire
3) they are hard to transport - those forced 5% of an encounter often ruin them or just make them waste a load of ammo.
4) they are absolutely useless when their driver is dead
5) they are easily sniped for 50 hex distance, breaking their arms makes them even more useless.
Would like to hear your comment on that; the game mechanic enabling us to use mercs in TC is awesome; and tweaks are welcome, along with fixes for the problems i described above.
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DMC group know how play with them so your points are useless. Beacuse you know how bring them to fight and fighting with them. And YES, they are very CHEAP for someone who dont have money from "legal" source.
I dont have nothing against mutants in battle. But right now everything about them is overpowered. Prices for all mercs and how many mercs can have one man.
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Sius, I understand your point, seriously; but you are wrong saying it is easy to bring/control 20 mutants.
1) they are expensive and Broken Hills is not a safe place to bring 150K caps with you
2) they are hard to control - slow, break when ammo is over, attacking other mercs, not following orders (a bunch of problems at once), friendly fire
3) they are hard to transport - those forced 5% of an encounter often ruin them or just make them waste a load of ammo.
4) they are absolutely useless when their driver is dead
5) they are easily sniped for 50 hex distance, breaking their arms makes them even more useless.
Would like to hear your comment on that; the game mechanic enabling us to use mercs in TC is awesome; and tweaks are welcome, along with fixes for the problems i described above.
1) they are very cheap, first of all u have money out of the air ( only u buy 450 hp mercs ), at second a big gunner player is worth 100 000, how much is 1 mutant?
2) all u have to do and all u do is come in when enemy is near the entrance ( they dont even have time to do anything, mercs are atacking before u can see them )
3) a taxi 10 CH alt can transport 5 mutants + 4 players to the location, guns can be given just before the fight
4) if u set - atack all apart from my faction members + 2) they are better than most of the players ( remember 450 hp )
5)well as long as ur players dont back them up, breaking arms? it doesnt happen too often
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Dead Master's Crew is a faction, not an alliance. Our numbers are naturally fewer than NA
But this is your problem, because you choose the pure PK of playing. We did not, because of this, many faction wants to join us or already joined because we are not one who killd every bluesuit in the wasteland. You can think something else, but proof of this is existence of NA with so many factions and players.
This includes trading to get the money for mutants (which cost 32+K now, not some 15-20)
I dont have any proof, but you used this mercs in time, when they cost 80k.. So i think your team was exploiting the caravan bug and you have a lot of money from this source, not only from trading or city capturing. What is the price for the lowest mutant? Dont think it is 32k+
, training our members (some of us visit you often in your nightmares, don't they? ;) ) and developing better tactical solutions for every city.
Ok, you trained your supermutant jockey char. But when he is killed, he is fastreloging to another char, classic combat or to other supermutant jockey char. Dont try to tell me, that it is not truth. Everyone do it, i have many pics of players killed and after few seconds they are logging off.
So your tactic is buy supermutant. One supermutant has how many HP? 400 = 3 snipers HP or 2 BG tank HP, one has firepower of one rocket launcher biggunner, so you buy 5 of them by cheap money (from all kind of sources), you have firepower of 5 tanks with much more HP per one.
I am proud of my faction for today's deeds
You are proud of what? Everyone can buy cheap supermutants, equipm them with rockets and use them in fight, relog after death and use the same tactic or regular PvP char. Your proud is a joke for us. We can do exactly the same, with bigger numbers. But we want to fight real players, not NPCs..
We are proud that we can unite so many REAL players.. It is hard, we have problems too with this organization, but we can be proud for this. I repeat, not proud for buying mutants and send them to death.
; and I can't stand an opportunity to muttiply our ranks: read our recruitment thread and PM me today for your trial period =)
All newbies welcomed... but dont forget to bring supermutants with you, or you are useless to our tactics. Hehe..
However, back to topic. No change is needed, because after wipe Town Control will work in a different way, thus making it impossible for one faction/alliance to control all towns at once.
You are off topic now, because i did not taledk about city capturing.. But about overpowered and supercheap supermutants which you can buy now with no restriction.
1) they are expensive and Broken Hills is not a safe place to bring 150K caps with you
No, they are not. The proof is, that you had 20+ in Den only. You lost many of them in today, yesterdays, .... fights. Cheap? NO.
2) they are hard to control - slow, break when ammo is over, attacking other mercs, not following orders (a bunch of problems at once), friendly fire
You see enemy, give order to shoot and 5 rockets from your 5 supermutants are on the way.. This is artilery battery. Ok then, GM, give us vertbird bombers then..
3) they are hard to transport - those forced 5% of an encounter often ruin them or just make them waste a load of ammo.
If it will be harder to transport them, there will be not 20+ mutants in one city at one time.
4) they are absolutely useless when their driver is dead
But is it not easy to kill him. Sometimes he is in the middle of supermutants, when he spawned in the city and sniper has absolutely no chance to click on smutans jockey pixels...
5) they are easily sniped for 50 hex distance, breaking their arms makes them even more useless.
Yes, but as i said, they shoot 5 rockets on me from 10 hexes less lenght..
So look at reaction of other players, even if they are from VSB or NA enemy gangs, they think that this is not balanced now. And PvP is about real players, not supermutants or NPCs..
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All these problems are based on the fact that people can have unlimited amount of mercs. However the system has now been reworked, so it uses references to keep track of mercs. After wipe, it'll be possible to have only 5 mercs at most, globally.
There was also an enormous amount of caps gained by an exploit that were open for at least a few days involving selling caravans. This is why some people can buy many mutants, no matter the price.
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After wipe, it'll be possible to have only 5 mercs at most, globally.
Does this include guards at base?
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Does this include guards at base?
Yes.
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Still... Ghosthack but why not limit number of mutants that you can bring with you? Let's say you can bring only 1 with 10 charisma and 1 other merc.
It would solve mutant spam problem as they wouldn't be that usefull on battlefield ("10 charisma only to bring one mutant? meh").
If I understand correctly what you suggest is that you can still have 5 supermutants with you on character just you can't have more hidden in tent and to get reinforcments you need to first buy new ones... With alts it really ain't that big problem...
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then people will use alts to get more mutants ... all u need i a 1lvl char with 10 CH u buy mutants and as i said before u use another prepared(21 lvl) alt to move them around, all the fast nick has to do is join the battle when enemy is near the orange entrance ...
if alt dies they'll fast relog, i spoke with many gms, wanted to give them a list of alts, since the last sunday we take vods many times u can see players like WIELKA KURWA and a second later PELNA KURWA, then MALA KURWA who relog.
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As I understand it Ghosthack said you will be able to have 5 mercs and 5 mercs only no matter how many are in the group with you. Simply 5 mercs whenever you have them, you wont be able to buy 6th.
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But this mercs restriction will not solve the problem.. You can still have 50 mercs in the game if you have 10 mercs jockeys..
I suggest, raise the price of mercs after wipe because there can (will) be at least minor economy exploits, like in every age.
I suggest, raise the price of mercs before wipe, because i am the boss here :)))
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No mutants mercenaries!!!mutants never served the people!!!Its Delirium
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Raising prices too but what you need is limit number of mutants that you can carry with you (even with 10 charisma) to one. Then system that Ghosthack said about will change anything.
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1 supermutant merc = 400 hp, 100 dmg with rocket launcher... for funny price. Can you imagine, what will Adam Smith said?
Make karma for supermutant mercs.. If you lost him in fight, you will have to wait one day...
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Previous price (85k or something) was great. For big fire power you need pay very well.
And of cource, mutants cant be pour slaves for humans. After wipe can be some faction which members can buying mutants.
There are solution for it, we just must try them.
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All these problems are based on the fact that people can have unlimited amount of mercs. However the system has now been reworked, so it uses references to keep track of mercs. After wipe, it'll be possible to have only 5 mercs at most, globally.
The equal of more alting. Factions want base safe from taggers and offensives. These restrictions again kick ass of simple and legal players. It's like people crush cars being drunk. Lets prohibit an alcohol! It's not real because politics like an alcohol, but here on 2238 developers are not having problems with taggers, thieves and base raiders.
On encounters/caravans/towns problem was that same character keeps coming back with more and more mutants. Why not to block local number? If you are leading NPC followers which are braking the limit, you simply can't get into the encounter/town.
And again. The problem is morality and exploiting, which simply can not be disabled, because of fucked human nature. Some players just can't loose and do everything to win. Including alting, exploiting, boting and it won't change. Algorithms can't block everything, it's why there are game masters.
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Still... Ghosthack but why not limit number of mutants that you can bring with you? Let's say you can bring only 1 with 10 charisma and 1 other merc.
It would solve mutant spam problem as they wouldn't be that usefull on battlefield ("10 charisma only to bring one mutant? meh").
If I understand correctly what you suggest is that you can still have 5 supermutants with you on character just you can't have more hidden in tent and to get reinforcments you need to first buy new ones... With alts it really ain't that big problem...
Alts is always a problem. This doesn't have much do with this specific mechanic. I'd say just about any feature is affected by it.
As I understand it Ghosthack said you will be able to have 5 mercs and 5 mercs only no matter how many are in the group with you. Simply 5 mercs whenever you have them, you wont be able to buy 6th.
This is correct.
1 supermutant merc = 400 hp, 100 dmg with rocket launcher... for funny price. Can you imagine, what will Adam Smith said?
Make karma for supermutant mercs.. If you lost him in fight, you will have to wait one day...
Starting price will be higher than before, also, every time a mutant is recruited, the price increases. I think Adam Smith would be really happy that we have basic market economy here, this is more than most other games.
The equal of more alting. Factions want base safe from taggers and offensives. These restrictions again kick ass of simple and legal players. It's like people crush cars being drunk. Lets prohibit an alcohol! It's not real because politics like an alcohol, but here on 2238 developers are not having problems with taggers, thieves and base raiders.
On encounters/caravans/towns problem was that same character keeps coming back with more and more mutants. Why not to block local number? If you are leading NPC followers which are braking the limit, you simply can't get into the encounter/town.
And again. The problem is morality and exploiting, which simply can not be disabled, because of fucked human nature. Some players just can't loose and do everything to win. Including alting, exploiting, boting and it won't change. Algorithms can't block everything, it's why there are game masters.
You make it sound like thievery, taggers and base raiders is something undesirable. Why not just remove a couple of skills like steal, lockpick and sneak then? We are not going to dumb down this game ad inifintum and make it a 100% safe experience for everyone. There's already a lot of hoarding going on in bases instead of trading.
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The only one opposing me who talks sense here is Sius. Hold tight of him, yoiu got a good gang leader. Lordus, seriously, please do not bother to answer my posts again - you are taking everything personally, and I am not interested in troll fighting.
I agree that mutants maybe should cost a bit more. This, plus a 5-per-player restriction will probably solve your concerns. If not, we can always ask devs for better solution. I do not see using artillery a bad thing. Diversity in a game is always good. And it is not like you can't win without mutants, we fight vs them and we win. Maybe you just need more training - if you fancy yourselves PvP players - or you could enjoy other sides of the game, and go roleplay in Hub or NCR.
I am not trying to offend anyone, but PvP is wasteland should remain harsh. We were losing most of the time when we were outnumbered, 10 vs 50, but did you see a single "suggestion" from us back then? I don't think so.
Good luck post-wipe. I am sure we will find ways to dominate PvP again, because this is what DMC players get fun from.
P.S. And one more thing. If you think PK-ing is bad, play some PvP free game. This is Fallout, you know. Post-apoc, blood everywhere, low moral. This is what makes the game attractive for many of us, don't spoil fun for many people because it is no fun for you.
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Sius did not play this era. I respect him, but he has no experience with this..
I am not taking everything personaly.. i only continue in discusion. You wrote up some statements and i disprove them. What is wrong whit this. And it looks that most of pvp players disagree with you, not only me.
Tell me, when NA has 50 players? This is kind of urban legend. If we have 30 players, many of them are not pure PvP or leveled up. Like yesterday fight in Den. From VSB we have cca 6 players per day ready to PvP, not more for last week.
5 NPC per person will not solve anything. Now you have 5 per person. It is no change.
You dont get the point. I agree that PK is part of game. You PK everyone, we PK you.. you have role, we have role too. But our role brings many players which wants to cooperate with us, not with you. And we are proud, we can cooperate with them. As i wrote, it is not easy, always there are problems in relationship between gangs and individuals, but existence of NA proves that it is possible to make this king of alliance. So it is sad, you need to use NPC instead of real players. But i accept this, i accept that you try to erase difference in stenght between gangs. But this supermutant swarm is too much. Very cheap, very powerful and fastrelog... this is not the reason why we play this game.
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Player with 4-5 mutants is way too overpowerd - how can you not see that? They might be slow but they got lots of HP and when use brain and enter with them at specific time from WM nobody can stop them.
Just limit number of supermutants that you can carry around to 1 or 2 and problem will dissapear and add limit that you can have supermutant only when your charisma is above 6-8. Fact that you can have 5 tanks with you makes PvP unbalanced.
Exploits with cash (which will exist during whole beta process I bet) and system that you can have only 5 mercenaries on one character will only lead to alt promotion again and not solve problem, Ghosthack. Good job.
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I am not trying to offend anyone, but PvP is wasteland should remain harsh. We were losing most of the time when we were outnumbered, 10 vs 50, but did you see a single "suggestion" from us back then? I don't think so.
True, fighting against NA is like... yesterday battle DMC vs NA in Den ;D Swarm - this time DMC swarm Mutants but other time you do this whith huge alliance and how 10-12 DMC can fight against 30+ players on wm and spawned on grid when they enter??
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Every game is about exploits, finding, using or eliminating them.
As long it doesn't cripple the gameplay permanently, it's considered as continuous development process.
Or a war between two factions and one faction getting pissed.
Anyway, even if nobody gives a damn, leaving mutants camping grids should be considered as abusing.
Yay, we need no PKs anymore. Everything money can buy should suffice - you don't even need to be online, just log in and get your loot.
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To solve people alting to place more guards in a base, is there a way you can place a hard limit on how many NPCs can be set to guard on a map?
If there's over 10 or so, they just say something like 'This place looks pretty well guarded to me, I'm not wasting my time'.
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Well one thing should be implemented right away. If you use your mercs as suicidal maniacs that should do the hard work instead of you they die often. But for every dead mercs his owner should get some -reputation or something and when he reaches certain point, no mercenaries will come with him no matter how big cash he have with him (who want to die being rich for 5 min eh?). Again I mention slavery idea here at forums its just brilliant and it could be used at merc system too.
And Lordus not playing does not equal not knowing. I think I have pretty good picture about current game even when I'm inactive.
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I guess you all should just keep your ideas, and when you'll have proofs that devs' future changes aren't sufficient, just open a suggestions thread again !
Until then, do as me : try to wait for that nasty changelog and take a horde of bitches in black instead of these green freaks !
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Anyway, even if nobody gives a damn, leaving mutants camping grids should be considered as abusing.
Yay, we need no PKs anymore. Everything money can buy should suffice - you don't even need to be online, just log in and get your loot.
With all respect - Bullshit. Buy 5 mutants and camp some grid with them. You will find them dead in no time. Buy 20 - and the "no time" will be just a bit longer =)
As for slavery system, I like it too, and would love to see it in action. Reputation for mercs... I don't know =) Maybe should try too. I am not nervous - now that DMC player count have reached some critical number (>10 online most of the time) we will survive anyway. Striop us of the artillery - we will find more ways to prosper =)
Btw. I also use mutant artillery unit to farm caravans. Evil me.
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Striop us of the artillery - we will find more ways to prosper =)
It's only natural.
If someone has his FUN suddenly CUT by devs, he will develop WAYS to bypass it.
That's why exploits, autoclicks, money leaks, chest seeds and mining bots exist and are being developed.
People don't want to have their fun blocked by some stupid cooldown.
And they're driven by greed.
This results into more restriction rampage by devs, which concerns everyone. And then people complain, lose their interest, go play Gaia or some shit and finally leave the game.
But hey, Wasteland is... Harsh, you say? It's merciless. Senseless. Unforgiving and unfair. It's the incarnation of Sviborg.
But i wonder, how successful FOnline would be without Fallout background.
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But i wonder, how successful FOnline would be without Fallout background.
It would still be popular imo. And so much of fallouts background isn't in FOnline (currently).
And yeah, that "wasteland is harsh" thing is amusing me too. As if the world in other RPGs or MMOs or whatever isn't "harsh".
There are medieval games where a rogue with arrows and a bow can easily shoot you in the face. Where you're getting robbed, killed, etc. Also space games, sci fi games etc. All those MMOs are mostly playing in a harsh enviroment. So the "wasteland is harsh" arguement is utter bullshit.
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You should all keep in mind one things: for now, mercs, and especialy mutants, are the only way for a no warrior char to take part of fight, and fight are one of the most important part of fonline.
Diversity in a game is always good.
I'm not agree with you Raengar. Diversity is not only a good thing, it's one of the most important thing for a game !
For now we have critical characters, Fast shot characters... don't make useless charismatic character.
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To have 30 people on mumble and whine because I lose against 15 from dmc, I'd be ashamed of my self, at least...
Our people are active day and night crafting planing leveling scouting, almost having no life. You and your pathetic whining can go somewhere else.
I'm a strategy gamer btw 8)
btw there should be a way to earn money in the wasteland, selling brahmins not bad, but something with real profit so they don't whine about how we got many mutant merc etc...
trader npc should have more caps and get more over time! -_-
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Very funny to me, a few days we were preparing this action: trained mercenaries, craft ammo, develop tactics for each city. And because of this ONE DAY you cry so much.
P.S. Dead Masters Army:
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4571/5a657993e6d9fbb095df9f9.jpg)
Cry more.
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But i wonder, how successful FOnline would be without Fallout background.
If marketed properly, it'd surely be more popular than Tibia.
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I love the way Star Trek mass-grid insertion tactics allowed by preview spam are A-ok for NA, but the same exact tactics with mutant mercenaries are suddenly bad when employed by DMC. Am I the only one seeing the irony here? You say you have your own mutants or can afford buying them Lordus - why don't you bring them over and over again till both gangs deplete their cash stocks? You'd have your precious merc-free PvP in no time. But I guess the truth is you missed something that changed in the game and you don't have the means to instantly adapt. You can't stand having your numerical advantage nullified, so you want the devs to change the game so your group could be on top again in no time. Because you're the good NA, and they're the bad DMC. The thing is your enemies worked long and hard to get to this point, so why don't you quit whining, take it like a man and do the same? You know, the way THEY did it. Cause it's getting annoying. It's not the first time. It's the same people complaining over and over again about something in the game prohibiting them from winning each and every time. Here's a bit of history:
- proto-NA players getting killed by instakills - > whine for instakill nerf -> instakills get nerfed
- NA instakill-snipers getting killed by BGs (cause BGs have the highest guaranteed damage output and the NA is still in the instakill era) - > whine for BG nerf - > BGs get nerfed
- NA BG-users getting killed by Mutants (mutants can no longer be easily killed because all weapons lost a fair share of their killing power and the NA is still back in the BG era) - > whine for a Mutant nerf.
See the pattern with a subtle coating of hipocrysy here?
Seriously guys, you're responsible for most of the general whining here while the game always was and probably always will be more or less balanced because everyone can use more or less the same stuff to achieve more or less the same goals. The only thing whining has ever brought to the table was making combat less lethal because what's nerfed seems to cannot be unnerfed. So just stop it. If mutants get weaker, somebody's going to come up with something else. The sad thing is that if it's not going to be you, the forum is going to get flooded with bullshit again and the devs will probably spend the precious little time they have fine-tuning something that'd be working just fine with a playerbase focused on actually playing instead of changing the game to suit their temporary agenda. Personally, I'm surprised you didn't ask for GM-style godmode for your faction members yet.
The solution? Nerf the nerfing. The game was at its best and was played way more dynamically when every single full AP attack (no matter the weapon as long as it was ranged) could kill you no matter how tough you thought you were. Just restore the pre-wipe weapon and ammo values and let it be.
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I must respond.
First, 30 people on mumble is not equal to 30 PvP player ready in one gang. More people you have, bigger communication, tactic, friendly fire, looting problem is. Most of currently czech playing players in NA have not their own metal armor, because they joined us before few days and they were not prepared for PvP style of play we did.
But ok, they enjoeyed the fight, they did not camp all the time over the world map, they take their best avaible stuff. So NA had cca 10-14 "hardcore" players ready to fight separated by language in their gang groups, all of others were experienced fonline players, but our kind of PvP (NA, Cajuns, RD, DMC, SOT,...) newbies. Maybe it is surprise for you, but 10 pure pvp players from different countries are not equal to 10 pure pvp player from one language region.
The point is, that all of us risked our equip, newbies risked their hardly crafted, in price of 50-100 k caps per one. And what risked DMC? One supermutant is stronger than any other real player, has power of one PvP BG rocket launcher soldier and his price is less then 1/3 of real player BG soldie and mutant does not loose armorr. Do you see that difference or not? I dont want to start flame like many of you did, but if you dont see difference, this discusion with you is over.
As i said, i was part of VSB that agreed with supermutants tactic. We died in Den some weeks before, because we spawned in south and some enemy spawned there cca 7 supermutants. All of us did not expected this, so we died quickly. Ok then, you were smart, we were not prepared for this. I vindicated your tactic, because i know you only try to eliminate the players amount difference.
But yesterday fight was something difference. There were more mutants than your players, you totaly swarmed all exidgrids with mutants, your mutant jockeys died and then you simply relog to another characters, mutants were still in the city killing us and you continiued in fight. We have absolutely no chance to do something with this. I am sorry, we have: pur only chance is to hire 20 supermunats (yes, we have chars with needed stats to do it, and money from city capturing) and use our supermutants on yours. But this is not the reason why we PvP. We want to challenge real players.
Boys, i am not whining that we lost the fight. Me and most of VSB dont afraid any almost suicide attack in the cities. Just remember, who is attacking you in Modoc in late hours: our 4 players are challenging your 7 players there + 5 of your supermutants.. We kill your 3 players, looted them, exit the city and then.. return for another fight, when we die, ok np, it was fun, and we tried it again. But situation, that one supermutant is more powerfull than one real player and his price is kind of joke.. no, this is not balance.
Instakills: i am sniper, i did not lobbed for instakills nerfing, but i agree that the fight is now little longer = more fun
BGs: yes, they have very deadly potential in oposite of others build. Any build should not dominate over others in all combat aspects.. Look at the Team Fortress 2 (i know that TF2 is realtime, for christ), but there are cca 7 characters (and more guns) and all of them are totaly balanced. Developers have hardly balanced 2 builds after half of year of existence of the game. I asked them, why they dont rebuild the system, that most of players will have to use SG automatic riffle class, minority will use sniper class (little nerfed) and biggunner class (huge nerfed too). Fights will be then longer. But most of you must have the best of the best (minigun animation because of small dicks or dunno why) and you are blind to balancing.
Mutants: heh, this is artillery.. Ok, giwe me some countermeasure to this: i. e. Vertbird bomber, suicide psyched dogs in price of 10k caps each or i dont know.
So boys, read my all suggestion and look that i am not whining because of i died in battle, but because this game need much more balance than exist now. You find some unbalanced, overpowered mechanism, so it must be reduced. Or make strategy game from fonline, give us mobile mutant barracs, .. but i will rather play Natural Selection then, if fonline will change in the strategy game.
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Lordus, you mean that NA can't find some money for supermutants. You said that NA have 30+ player, and DMC 3 times less.
I play only 1 week on 2238 (and played fallout series before ), i can make easily couple of thousands in one hour. I don't think money is that difficult in that game.
I'm sure that this was very good example, that game is balanced: number of players is less important than their skills. I don't think that outnumbering should rule in this game. Even in WoW which is very casual, skills play more than gear and quantity.
So, do you mean that NA is completely not-skilled and badly equiped?
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Why would having long fights with multiple landing hits be any better than having it fast and furious like they it to be? What, is getting up, running for cover, getting FA and going back in till one side loses their ammo or scores a burst critical hit that enjoyable?
Let's have a rundown of the most common complaints about weapon and tactical balance right now (I've included a few hypothetical but very much possible ones that are simply bound to happen if the devs don't change the course):
- most guns are worthless for PvP
- critical-based weapons are overpowered
- burst-based weapons are overpowered
- explosion-based weapons are overpowered
- mercenaries are overpowered
- drugs are overpowered
And compare the "now" to "then" (or vanilla F2):
1. Most guns are worthless for PvP
Now - yeah. Everything including criticals is more or less HP based (what's the difference between a Plasma Rifle scoring an x3 critical each time and a Minigun? they each take HP, so it's all about stun vs easier clicking), so only the top tier weapons are useable. Because bigger damage output owns you.
Then - nope. See that dude with a laspistol and a jacket? You've got your avenger and CA, but he's going to blow your brains out with a single hit. Or maybe not. But you can't really ignore him, right?
2. Critical-based weapons are overpowered
Now - oh, they just take your HPs anyway. Who cares. Yeah, you could decrease their damage output, but hey - you're increasing the relative damage output of burst-based stuff.
Then - yeah, they take you down with one shot. But you're still on 0 HP and there's your buddy to get you up. A Minigun with two shots is going to mess you up all the same, but there's no going back into the fight after that. Who's gonna be faster? Who was detected first? What's your relative position, situational awareness etc? There's definitely much more going on than a simple -HP exchange.
3. Burst-based weapons are overpowered
Now - yeah, they definitely take your HPs away. So make them take away less. Or more. You're messing with critical-based relative power while doing that anyway.
Then - they can shred 2 or 3 people, but you better think about approaching that sniper without him seeing you first to utilise the advantage of not having to click twice. Definitely more tactical.
4. Explosion-based weapons are overpowered
Now and Then - same shit again.
5. Mercenaries are overpowered
Now - you could always bring yours. But yeah, it's hard to counter without having your personnal army here. Sorry, can't help you man.
Then - see that mutie, Mr. Scope? One bullet from your rifle and it's all over for him. But hey, Mr. Big is screwed, so I can see why did they bring him here.
6. Drugs are overpowered
Now - yeah, they give an advantage that sometimes seems unfair, but you can still take them out with plasma grenades if they're on psycho so I guess it's ok. But decrease the damage output of anything a bit more and see what happens.
Then - yeah, they give an advantage but that doesn't change the fact that critical hits work. And that unnerfed Minigun was ok too I guess. So yeah, you better have proper distance and act fast, but you can take them out.
See how it goes? The devs dropped the ball when they did the first critical nerf screwing over the entire combat mechanic and eliminating most of the common hard counters and unpredictability from the game. It used to be exciting. Now it mostly comes down to "who's got more HP and better resistance" (armor, drugs, EN, lifegiver) and "who can take their HP faster" (the top gun - everyone's using it, it changes with what's being nerfed right now, lots of AP to shoot it as fast as possible). Is that fun? It sometimes feels like standing in front of your opponent and stabbing him with your fork in the gut in robotic intervals and vice-versa until one of you bleeds out. Oh, and you're both constantly applying plasma packs and painkillers as you go. Nerfing anything at this point is only going to make it worse.
The "balancing" done here (aside from removing sneak as it was) is an endless self-propelling spiral of bullshit. Just scrap it and stick to the old stuff. It'd be way better that way.
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Very funny to me, a few days we were preparing this action: trained mercenaries, craft ammo, develop tactics for each city. And because of this ONE DAY you cry so much.
P.S. Dead Masters Army:
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/4571/5a657993e6d9fbb095df9f9.jpg)
Cry more.
lol, rofl and etc.
you forgot to write about your multiwindows cheats when one play 2-3 chars with mutants
2dev
remove mutants-merc from game,it turns the game into an extraordinary spectacle
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duorden, if you say that "you forgot to write about your multiwindows cheats when one play 2-3 chars with mutants" without any proofs,
then I can say easily: "duorden is gaylady and eat shit" :)
Devs! please remove all range weapons. They are overpowered, and anyone can kill me! Let's stuck with spears and knifes! Oh, yeah, and no drugs, cos I don't know how to use them!
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Devs! please remove all range weapons. They are overpowered, and anyone can kill me! Let's stuck with spears and knifes!
SPARTA!
:>
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Lordus, you mean that NA can't find some money for supermutants. You said that NA have 30+ player, and DMC 3 times less.
I play only 1 week on 2238 (and played fallout series before ), i can make easily couple of thousands in one hour. I don't think money is that difficult in that game.
I'm sure that this was very good example, that game is balanced: number of players is less important than their skills. I don't think that outnumbering should rule in this game. Even in WoW which is very casual, skills play more than gear and quantity.
So, do you mean that NA is completely not-skilled and badly equiped?
We dont want play warcraft here.. we want challenge real players. Not only NPC. It is not problem, if you have one or two supermutants, but when you have five per one, you die and you relog then, it is problem.
30+ but most of them was unleveled and unequiped. Or they had thir last armors,.. because they did not have manufacture, like big gangs.. And enemy just go, buy with cheap money overpowered supermutants and destroy many hour world of that newbie players.. This is not balance.
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Let's have a rundown of the most common complaints about weapon and tactical balance right now (I've included a few hypothetical but very much possible ones that are simply bound to happen if the devs don't change the course):
You must level up days or weeks your char, you must craft 10+ hours to get PvP equip (for one fight). And you can die after few seconds.. Well, this is not enough balanced fights..
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remember what ghosthack said? money out of the air, this is really funny, they are using mutants that cost them nothing and they have guts to write this shit here ...
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You must level up days or weeks your char, you must craft 10+ hours to get PvP equip (for one fight). And you can die after few seconds.. Well, this is not enough balanced fights..
Is crafting 10+ hours for a less entertaining and less balanced fight that's only a few seconds longer worth it? Besides that's another complaint I have with this stuff. What you're saying is not analytical. It concerns economy and crafting more than combat. And yeah, economy is also messed up since the wipe. If you were able to farm mediocre stuff (normal miniguns, ammo, LSWs, lasers) while having the new crafting in place for starting and top-tier equipment everyone would probably be happy. But no, it's all grind and then it's all a 2-minute long shitty fight that allows you to grind less the next day if you win. Another flawed design choice. Don't you think that it'd be better to fix both issues separately instead of complaining that nothing can be done since they're connected on some abstract level? Breaking the game took about a month of updating and a lot of brainstorming, I think that fixing it wouldn't take much longer since most of the stuff is already there. It's just a matter of replacing something that didn't work with something that worked.
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If you were able to farm mediocre stuff (normal miniguns, ammo, LSWs, lasers) while having the new crafting in place for starting and top-tier equipment everyone would probably be happy.
This sounds really good. I'd rather replace those items with even a bit more low "tier" stuff like normal shotguns etc., but I like it.
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This sounds really good. I'd rather replace those items with even a bit more low "tier" stuff like normal shotguns etc., but I like it.
The idea in general is to get all the people who want to PvP some basic stuff to do so (shotguns sadly won't do) without spending half of the day crafting while keeping pure powerplayers in a position of slight advantage. It worked really well before the wipe when CA was just painful to get - most people were running around with metal armor mk2 and generally good guns, there was a lot of action and fun to be had and the real hardcore ones that'd spend half a day looking for plasma rifles or CAs would be way better off but still very much inside of reach of more humble fighters. Since crafting CAs and the best weapons is almost just as painful as it used to be to hunt for them, it'd be pretty much the same but with an additional option to craft instead of treasure hunting. That'd make the 2238 society divide somewhat naturally into 4 layers:
- newbies/bluesuits - nuff said. They never really get any stuff until they learn to play. If they do, they lose it in a matter of minutes.
- beginners - pistols, jackets, shotguns... you've all seen it, you all know it. Beginner crafters and so on, with no real game knowledge and/or companions to go farming with.
- the middle ground - they have their gangs, they farm stuff, they get the "standard issue" generic BG/EW/SG from caravans, wear leather or metal armors, can PvP without risking to lose very important stuff in a matter of seconds
- top-tier players - they want best gear, they craft it. They don't die that much anyway, and even if they do they don't get eliminated for long hours after a skirmish gone wrong.
What it does, aside from giving everyone more fun and removing the GRIND FUCKING EVERYTHING phenomenon is making PvP accessible for everyone with mediocre knowledge of the game and up. Currently there's a sharp barier between people who know how to PvP and people who don't and there's no real means of breaching the gap. Now if some of the required stuff (it's just weapons and ammo anyway) is farmable, they can learn without being hurt too much. That's a good thing. They won't start wearing best stuff until they're sure they can manage without losing it.
This of course would make NPC shops easy dumping grounds. So just make farmed weapons have a visible tag and make them dirt cheap. I mean "this laser was made in the NCR, I want no trouble sir" kind of thing. Or make the shops stop buying after, say, 5 duplicates of a given weapon are in stock (weapons only, what kind of a nutjob would sell ammo anyway?) so that they don't get flooded with farmed stuff. It'd do good for having a nice selection of common guns if some crazy loner wanted to buy them too.
Two simple solutions - and all the problems most people have with this game are gone and 2238 is once again awesome. I mean... why wouldn't you want to do that?
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Mutants are for fuckers...
If some idiot put 10 mutants to entrance, you are dead before you see who killed you. I want fight, but i can't because mutants kill me when I enter town.
I was in Den, hiden with plasma rifle behind corner, I killed player and I was waiting to another enemy, but then came 4 mutants and I got 4 rockets in 2 seconds.
What about mutant fights? We don't need real players. All we need are 2 mutant leaders from NA and 2 leaders from DMC, every with 5 mutants. Real players can stand on world map and bet who wins! Remove all weapons from game, put notary NPC into game, and rename game, I think that MFO (Mutant Fights Online) is nice name for this kind of game.
Do you think so?
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I am not think so...
You stang on main resp alone and you want herewith kill all enemys ? What problem ?
(ps. For example i kill 3 biggunner mutants alone - it is really possible.)
Try to play better but not cry on forum
pss.
Was fulldrop weapon=>now it history...
Was thiefs=> now it is not possible to play...
Now you want to take away driwer profession...
Go to play sims for example - there you will not die... :-\
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(ps. For example i kill 3 biggunner mutants alone - it is really possible.)
what are u talking about, 450hp x 3 = 1350 hp, try to deal this damage while someone is backing up the mutants GOOD LUCK !!!
on top of that mutants are not the real problem, the problem is they have got them for free, no matter how many u kill they will bring 20-25 again in a few hours
they risk nothing, u risk all ur stuff ...
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Well if we ignore number of mercenaries and current possibilities with them there is also theirs reaction time. They are NPCs so they run some check for enemies and when such check comes back as positive they react. But that means NPCs have godlike reactions and I wonder why they don't shoot the wings off flies when they are idle. And if you line up such NPCs at entrance only chance how to kill them is making them busy shooting at numerous targets while trying to shoot them back = not fun.
I think every merc should have some reaction time based on his PE so they will no longer attack targets while regular players can't even see them yet.
...
Stop this senseless flaming for Christ sakes! Such bullshit posts are just calling for a strike. And for your information you can die in Sims: build a pool, add stairs, make him/her/them swim, remove stairs.
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If some idiot put 10 mutants to entrance, you are dead before you see who killed you. I want fight, but i can't because mutants kill me when I enter town.
I was in Den, hiden with plasma rifle behind corner, I killed player and I was waiting to another enemy, but then came 4 mutants and I got 4 rockets in 2 seconds.
You complain about grid-camping mutants, because you can't enter the city to fight camp anymore?
That's amusing. Otherwise, you're right - a single player can't stand a chance entering the town.
A organised group of heavily armed individuals can although eradicate the problem, using alternative entry point.
And for your information you can die in Sims: build a pool, add stairs, make him/her/them swim, remove stairs.
And using bad cooking skills on a oven. Pyromaniac death.
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So many cry after my message
**450 hp oo aa omg**
If you cant kill mutants - it is your problem...it is easy if you not weak in fonline...
If you can not take cityes - it is your problem too...all in equal condition
(for crying people) You will die alwaus because can only cry on forum but not adapt in heath...
and finally!! What pwp you want if cant kill NPS with 450 (aaaa ooo yyy) hp
So many 7age schoolchildrens want easy and ugly game...this is not for foll mans...
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If DMC is so enamored of mutants, so they mutants.My suggestion to forcibly give them skins mutants and make karma in cities like mutants, that is - 10000
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To Alvarez:
If all entering points are full of mutants or well armed players, you can only sadly stand on world map and wait until mutants leave town. And that's not game!
Mostly, if mutants are on entering point, you are dead before you see mutants and log is empty, sou you can't see, how much damage you get. It's really stupid.
I don't see why is DMC using this ''fight'' style. It's not fun for them, it's not fun for us.
So why do they do it? For equip? Because they have dementia? I think, that the reason is: Mutants are similar real DMC players, so they are taking their brothers to fights. This is ordinary explanation-family fights!
To duorden:
Nice idea! I agree with it!
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So many cry! So many players cry! All suffer ! :D
We can see the best fallout sides ::)
And so quickly all have lowered hands after sunday mess ;D
*******
Because nowhere spend money... hmmm...this is too need to modding...
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So many cry! So many players cry! All suffer ! :D
We can see the best fallout sides ::)
And so quickly all have lowered hands after sunday mess ;D
*******
Because nowhere spend money... hmmm...this is too need to modding...
addition mutants, DMC hired clowns of forum, here is one of them
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To pti4ka:
This is no theme for SUPER-MEGA-HUGE-LARGE-ULTRA mutant killers, which can kill 2 mutants by 1 shoot from Red Ryder BB gun.
I know, that you are best FOnline player ever, you can kill all players in FOnline by 1 shoot from mauser, but most of normal players aren't on god level like you, so we must find solution for normal player. I know, that GOD like you don't need any game fixes. You are equivalent of Chuck Norris in FOnline.
Aren't you Chuck Norris? I think yes!
SO EVERYONE STOP PLAYING FOnline Chuck Norris IS PLAYING THIS GAME, SO WE HAVEN'T GOT CHANCE TO WIN!
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addition mutants, DMC hired clowns of forum, here is one of them
You lout on russianlanguage forum...you lout on englishlanguage fotum...and on both forum YOU takeаas clown...
not to disgrace oneself
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not feel nervous - all will well
So many whiners...shall not argue...cry more
DMS forces you to suffer==> join it ;)
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pti4ka noob from other server
he does not play, just trolls
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yeah go play sims xD
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Today night, we fought against DMC. Well, not against them, against their mutants. They had cca 20 supermutants with rocket launchers.. Price for one is 15k caps. Ok, VSB and NA have enough money to do the same tactics, but we dont want to fihgt npc we want to fight real players.. Until devs will raise the price of supermutants, we will not fight AGAINST SUPERMUTANTS. Because this realy sucks. With fast relog, we cant be in the city. This realy sucks.
make a vote about this issue
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not feel nervous - all will well
So many whiners...shall not argue...cry more
DMS forces you to suffer==> join it ;)
Sorry Chuck, but I have my pride! So I can't join to group of rusian no life nerds...
So anyone who have pride isn't in DMC! You don't need pride, you have mutants. They do all dirty job for you.
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Guys pti4ka is trolling and you are only assisting him. Stop it, ignore Chuck for a second, if he continues trolling for a little longer I bet that moderators will deal with him.
Get back to topic that is about mutie mercenaries remember?
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pti4ka : If you have nothing to say about "Mercenaries suggestion" so just stop posting your stupid posts.
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Get back to topic that is about mutie mercenaries remember?
Excellent idea.
So, what we found so far: raising price for muties won't work because there's a money leak somewhere.
Raising Charisma check on Muties won't do much sense, either.
So, i would suggest that Mutants won't attack players sometimes on certain conditions.
Like a single unarmed player will be told to GTFO and 10 seconds to comply, just because Marcus says so. A trained minigun however, ticking (whispering) explosive in inventory or a heavily armed party would get you a lead hurricane.
Before you say, a player could sport his gun behind their backs, gather single fighters into the city past the cordon, so be it.
Let them temp their fate.
Someone keeping his eyes open would notice it and react accordingly. If he's away - his fault.
As for attacks with mutants, i say Avalanche effect against overkill. First, only 2 at once attacks, if it results in death, 4 storms the front and so on.
Make them really self-deciding.
Deciding that they don't want to be your PERSONAL ARMY, if there's too much of their own kin around.
Imagine, there's a war and everybody goes to pub. ;D
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I have a solution based on what duorden wrote. But I still think it all will change with incoming limit after wipe. Anyway...
What would make super super mutants (so strong and so skilled) be mastered by a human? And in that quantity? These mercenaries are elite. So it should have additional demands like higher charisma and speech skill than it's set via standard formula. Besides... I think their leader should be really super mutant... What makes him shot by civilized (and not) patrols (reputation issue).
Summary - some ideas, what would help to make it balanced:
- Additional reputation tag (like Slaver), that you are/were a leader of super mutants - it would permanently make you shot on sight by some factions (Rangers, etc.),
- Reputation drop,
- Completed quest requirement - to be dipped in FEV container and change into super mutant,
- Super mutant's health decrease,
- Higher price.
Why? Because of not balanced hps comparing to human mercenaries and slaves.
Besides there could be a super quest what would make you could buy robots. With really high price and demands - just for next feature/fun element.