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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 04:17:07 am

Title: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 04:17:07 am
Okay, I can totally understand if this is just rejected without a second thought but I really wanna discuss this possibility.

Okay. Down to business:

If a gang owns a town, the members of that gang can capture other FACTION MEMBERS of other gangs.  You CAN NOT do this to people not a member with a player driven faction.

The way this is executed is:

1.  enemy knocks player unconcious and uses rope on him.
2.  enemy is -HP. 

Essentially just like enslaving npcs.

After one of these occurs, the character is transported to the town's jail behind a locked door.  Kind of like the GM prison.

In order to be freed of this the gang with their member incarcerated has several options:

1.  Pay the ransom to the mayor.  Ransom is defined by current gear on the character + character level.  Each level is 1,000 caps.  level 24 = 24,000 caps to pay ransom IF he's a bluesuit.  the gear is added into it based on base value.  All caps go to the TC chest.

2.  They can attempt to break the character out, accomplishable by a number of ways:

2.1 -  Blow up the door with which the character is contained.
2.2 - Lock pick it.
2.3 - Take the town (after this the character is immediately sent to the respawn zone with any items carried).

Understand that if this is implemented it would likely be an extremely rare occurrence anyways, as most pvp is with the intent to neutralize as quickly and efficiently as possible which imposes the shoot to kill statistic.  Only if say 1 character happened to be -HP after a fight would this likely happen.

ALSO, you have  the ~cuttheveins command.  So it's not like you cannot avoid it, just be quick to decision.

But I can see where people who take the "Dead man walking" quest perk be a little shifty about this, seeing as this causes characters who take this more susceptible to being captured during PvP.

Discuss.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: falloutdude on April 18, 2012, 04:24:21 am
i like it. but 24k is kinda high. unless i can trade guns,ammo and drugs 2 to get him out. am sure the controlling faction would not mind having some more guns and ammo.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Sarakin on April 18, 2012, 12:08:02 pm
What if some newbie was on a wrong place in a wrong time and gets busted ? And yes, 24k is too much.

The idea is good for locking up pesky scouts, unarmed trolls and so on, but then cuttheveins shouldnt be possible to use somehow.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 12:26:25 pm
What if some newbie was on a wrong place in a wrong time and gets busted ? And yes, 24k is too much.
You missed the part where I said that only people in a player driven factions can be captured...
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Mayck on April 18, 2012, 12:28:39 pm
I don't think that this could work. If you restrict capturing to just people that are in some faction, PvP factions will most probably bypass it by using non-factioned chars for PvP (not to mention that there are also factions not interested in PvP at all, i.e. some players who just wanted a base). And if you make it that everyone can be captured it will become a trolling tool.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 12:31:46 pm
I don't think that this could work. If you restrict capturing to just people that are in some faction, PvP factions will most probably bypass it by using non-factioned chars for PvP (not to mention that there are also factions not interested in PvP at all, i.e. some players who just wanted a base). And if you make it that everyone can be captured it will become a trolling tool.
But it's the benefit/consequence scenario.

Being in a gang brings benefits of being able to TC, store mass amounts of things interchangeable, and name colorization.  (name colorization being the most useful for everyone)

Consequence is other gangs and take you hostage and for ransom.

I think it's more than beneficial to just be in a gang and be sure to cuttheveins before anyone gets you.  I would like to hear "Fuck we lost!  Everyone cuttheveins now!!!"
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: DeputyDope on April 18, 2012, 12:32:06 pm
~suicide will make this extra feature extra useless.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 12:35:07 pm
hahaha this is so stupid! 2nd jail, and what if 2nd fation is to weak to defeat gang who owns the town? they will loose all chars :D this will be abuse, people were crying because someone was killing them in rented room and now you want to put them to prison ? :D what if i will capture all noobs in my town? they will just ragequit or cry to gm.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 12:37:14 pm
hahaha this is so stupid! 2nd jail, and what if 2nd fation is to weak to defeat gang who owns the town? they will loose all chars :D this will be abuse, people were crying because someone was killing them in rented room and now you want to put them to prison ? :D what if i will capture all noobs in my town? they will just ragequit or cry to gm.
2nd factions waits till enemy is offline and makes a jailbreak.

Even the weakest factions could accomplish any of the said ways to get their chars out except maybe capturing town.

stfu bro ;D
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 12:41:43 pm
2nd factions waits till enemy is offline and makes a jailbreak.
stfu bro ;D

so now i have to wait few hours ? so stupid. this will ruin fun of pvp. and i can use it to enslave all sneakers or miners? and i can camp with 20 muties militia + mercs to shoot on sight and 2 players trolls who will just troll them. this is worst sugestion ever. i know you like to catch slaves but cathing player is just wrong and trollish. "we lost lets all make ceremonial suicide" wtf ancient japanese? so now everyon should have wakijashi blade in inventory and bid "cut my stomach"
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 12:52:05 pm
so now i have to wait few hours ? so stupid. this will ruin fun of pvp. and i can use it to enslave all sneakers or miners? and i can camp with 20 muties militia + mercs to shoot on sight and 2 players trolls who will just troll them. this is worst sugestion ever. i know you like to catch slaves but cathing player is just wrong and trollish. "we lost lets all make ceremonial suicide" wtf ancient japanese? so now everyon should have wakijashi blade in inventory and bid "cut my stomach"
You have to be in a player driven faction to be captured.

And if your -hp and alone you're dead anyways.

And bro, if you're too weak to help yourself don't go into town with know motha-fuckahs :D.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Sarakin on April 18, 2012, 01:26:11 pm
You missed the part where I said that only people in a player driven factions can be captured...
98% of people are in factions, even majority of loners got a faction base just for the sake of alt management.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Mayck on April 18, 2012, 01:41:46 pm
Quote from: Michaelh139
But it's the benefit/consequence scenario.
Being in a gang brings benefits of being able to TC
The way TC is now I would rather make lvl5 AFK alts in faction for caping and use non-faction alts for defending them. And it would probably be this way even if the TC worked the old way.

Quote from: Michaelh139
store mass amounts of things interchangeable
I can set my alts as friends of a faction, so they have access to the base.

Quote from: Michaelh139
and name colorization.  (name colorization being the most useful for everyone)
I can tag my allies green manually. Yeah, I would rather do this once per char, than pay some ransom money more than once per char.

Also it would be pretty hard to balance the ransom money amount, it would either be so low that larger PvP factions wouldn't give a damn or it would be crippling for smaller ones. (Personally I can level up new PvP char much faster than get 24k)
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 02:32:28 pm
dude i saw you in pvp action. you would be 1rst whom get captured. and who goes to town if he isnt member of faction? ncr crafter? :D even he is member of bos/raiders
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Lordus on April 18, 2012, 03:02:55 pm
Michael, i like your idea, because i think that liberation of alts from prison could be funny, if there would exist alternative for cash payment. Using skills like traps (C4), steal (to get keys from guards), lockpick,.. in entertaining PVE scenario.

 On other way, arguments of previous posters, ecxpet DipullyyyDarf, are valid. I dont want to repeat them, but i have one point. If your idea is proposed as a upgrade or improvement of current TC, then it is wrong, because current TC mechanism is fail, because of many reasons, sadly not only because of bugs.

 But your idea of imprison player chars is good and i would like to see it rather in PVE only variation.

 My counterproposal:

 Everyone knows encouters with raiders, npc faction. So simply: if you are killed in that encouter, you will not respawn in common respawn points, as usual, but you will respawn in prison (cage, locked doors,..) in Raiders base, and your teamates or friends or just hired muscles would have to rescue your char (kill, sneak, lockpick, traps, science skills are required).

 And because there are a lot of similar NPC factions on world map (khans, highwaymans,...) a lot of different bases(prisons) could be created, each in different place covering different area, required different skills. So what do you think? It could be first real PVE team mod in the game. Imprisonment has a tradition in Fallout universe (Tandi in Fallout 1, Restoration project quests in F2, Fallout tactics too,...).
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: avv on April 18, 2012, 03:25:12 pm
Making player unable to do stuff with his character is so bad feature that nobody should seriously consider it. There's a reason why jailing is gm-only: it's not fun when your freedom is taken.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 03:47:50 pm
so if my alt die by floaters he will respawn in their nest ?:D
and if deathcalv kill me i will be brooded by deathclav mother ? :)
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Lordus on April 18, 2012, 03:54:04 pm
so if my alt will die from floaters he will respawn in their nest ?:D
and if deathcalv kill me i will be brooded by deathclav mother ? :)

 So if your alt die, he will respawn? Your alt is Jesus Christ or what? This is not game, this is reality!! :P I know you are trolling, so i like you even more  :-*
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: T-888 on April 18, 2012, 03:56:53 pm
My alt is in jail , lets use alts to get them out.

(http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/5523/ohnevermind.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/839/ohnevermind.png/)
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 03:57:27 pm
i am just posting respawn options ;]
geckos/ants - you are egg ;D
mutants - you are in few tank ;D
enclave - navaro
bos - bos bunker
sf - space shutle flying on the orbit around the earth ;D
80s - dancing you cant touch it ;D or wanilia ice ;D
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Malice Song on April 18, 2012, 04:04:28 pm
Making player unable to do stuff with his character is so bad feature that nobody should seriously consider it. There's a reason why jailing is gm-only: it's not fun when your freedom is taken.

Exactly this. I considered writing a wall of text going into detail regarding all the potential problems, but let's just save ourselves some time and use common sense:

We're talking about a gameplay feature that would actively prevent players from playing the game.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 04:09:16 pm
yes ;] requeim hell respaw was funny but jail isnt at all
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Kilgore on April 18, 2012, 04:15:47 pm
A horrible idea that would only become an ultimate griefing tool and cause massive butthurt to the victims. I don't know how you could come up with something like this  :P
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 04:25:19 pm
maby he want make "cath them all"

"- T-888 saying he doesn't like fast relogging (god, I have to make that "tripleight family on spawn" compilation GIF one of these days)"

so now you can have your own t888 family in your barn ;]
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Lordus on April 18, 2012, 04:28:03 pm
 I will talk only about PVE variant, not about original Michaels.

 Fonline is a multiplayer post apo game. So there could exist various game mechanisms, unthinkable in real world. Like respawn. From human history, i knew only about one guy, who rethink his death and resurrect, but this principle, although nonsense, is common in most of games. So why not imprisonment?

 

 But gameplay, you know, the most funny part of every game, is also important. So if you are afraid of imprisonment of your char, simply dont visit areas where are raiders and use train!, car!, high outdoorsman!, go around!, dont die!, and if all previous fails, ask your teamates, because i heard that Fonline is MULTIPLAYER game, to free your alt!

 Also, if you free your imagination, there could exist 2 different ways how to free your alt: 1) free your alt from prison, or 2) kill whole NPCS in raiders camp(prison), so temporary (few real life days), capturing feature would be disabled.


 All previous mechanism i wrote up here are common. Red dot army often killed all or many NPCs in guarded town => they like it. But if they have purpose (free your mate char), they dislike it, because of what?
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: RED.DOT on April 18, 2012, 04:29:14 pm
so you can pk in respawn after slaughtering all npcs ?:D haahaah i love it ;D
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Lordus on April 18, 2012, 04:30:42 pm
so you can pk in respawn after slaughtering all npcs ?:D haahaah i love it ;D

 If you slaughter all npcs, you would respawn in common respawns, whats wrong with you?
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Tomowolf on April 18, 2012, 04:38:20 pm
Michael, i like your idea, because i think that liberation of alts from prison could be funny, if there would exist alternative for cash payment. Using skills like traps (C4), steal (to get keys from guards), lockpick,.. in entertaining PVE scenario.

 On other way, arguments of previous posters, ecxpet DipullyyyDarf, are valid. I dont want to repeat them, but i have one point. If your idea is proposed as a upgrade or improvement of current TC, then it is wrong, because current TC mechanism is fail, because of many reasons, sadly not only because of bugs.

 But your idea of imprison player chars is good and i would like to see it rather in PVE only variation.

 My counterproposal:

 Everyone knows encouters with raiders, npc faction. So simply: if you are killed in that encouter, you will not respawn in common respawn points, as usual, but you will respawn in prison (cage, locked doors,..) in Raiders base, and your teamates or friends or just hired muscles would have to rescue your char (kill, sneak, lockpick, traps, science skills are required).

 And because there are a lot of similar NPC factions on world map (khans, highwaymans,...) a lot of different bases(prisons) could be created, each in different place covering different area, required different skills. So what do you think? It could be first real PVE team mod in the game. Imprisonment has a tradition in Fallout universe (Tandi in Fallout 1, Restoration project quests in F2, Fallout tactics too,...).

I don't want to be rude, Your , dear Lordus ideas are great, but they got glitches, like when you got 3 lvl , and got killed by raiders, that means I need to make another alt to get out that other alt from hell? That doesn't make a sense.
Also it needs scripts.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Lordus on April 18, 2012, 04:50:05 pm

I don't want to be rude, Your , dear Lordus ideas are great, but they got glitches, like when you got 3 lvl , and got killed by raiders, that means I need to make another alt to get out that other alt from hell? That doesn't make a sense.
Also it needs scripts.

 I am glad, Tomowolf, that you take my idea seriously. I proposed concept, and like you said, glitches or weaknesses are natural parts of every new idea.

 Try to distract the mind from current existing fonline features and universe, and answer me. Is it normal, to roam with unexperienced character near Raiders area? Of course, you can be killed, but you, same like others, know that death penalty in fonline is zero penalty.

 But i agree, that imprisonment could be cruel. So there could exists way how to get out. Again, everyone forget about fact, that Fonline is multiplayer roleplay game, even faction game. So why is problem to ask for help your mates, alli, or just nice guy from icr? Maybe next time, they will need your help.

 And again, although Fonline is a MPRPG, there is not any multiplayer PVE scenario (except The Glow).

 Players or factions who free victims of imprisonment, could be rewarded by caps from NPCs (did you played Fallout 2 Restoration Project.. it was quest for rangers).

 P.S.: Scripting: i know, a lot of work (but i think that most of scripts already exists, at least the core of scripts.. respawn, lockpicked doors, trapped area,..).

 P.P.S.: And finally, imagine, that Enclave would imprison your 300 skill ammo thief, and if you want to free him, you would need to attack enclave! Boring?
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Killer Rabbit on April 18, 2012, 05:02:06 pm
This is just forcing people to do pve. I am pvp and i dont want to do stuid quests or raid navaro. So i can force you to pvp , if you dont go to one of north town every 24h for min 30min mutants should raid your base/tent (30mutants with m60, gatlings, rocket laumchers)
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Who Killed Bambi on April 18, 2012, 05:30:10 pm
if this gonna be implemented i suggest to use work of prisoners.
they can make rot gut or something useless at theyr jail, so even if someone payd they still need to make some big items (rot gut) quantiny.

or even convert it to flamer fuel.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 18, 2012, 10:29:26 pm
I am glad at least 75% of the people on the thread attempt to make a point while the rest all I here is this:

"I don't want it because I don't like it".

T-888, seriously.  You're complaining about the alt retardation in the picture?  The whole game is about alts, ESPECIALLY now.  So that's not a good excuse to blow off a suggestion.

Kilgore, shut up and read the suggestion more thoroughly :).  or, perhaps read it at all.

Red.dot:  no reason to say anything to you at this point.

------------- finished with current trolls.


onto the people who actually at least tried.

Malice Song, game is all about alts.  It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

I would also like to add the possibility of a specific time limit to captured, that you could only be held prisoner for maybe 24 hours and then you're released to the respawn point, and all gear is put into TC chest.  Gang members could also release player prisoners themselves.... if they wanted.


Killer Rabbit, re-read the suggestion please.  You're not FORCED to do anything.  The entire possibility of being captured is totally within you're hands.  When -HP (and I hope unconcious too, perhaps must be added) you can just ~cuttheveins.

And Lordus:  I don't like the idea of just pve.  You see the militia getting raped 24/7 so easily because of SD sneak and such?  and even before then it's pretty friggin simple to kill npcs with any build.  It would only be a very minor annoyance if it was pve only, but I do respect you're counter to my idea.  It'd probably be considered more acceptable to general population from what I see.

Who Killed Bambi, I was thinking the same thing, except you can work somehow to get out of prison.  But I honestly see this becoming too complicated :D.

Damn.  so much text.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: T-888 on April 19, 2012, 03:24:40 am
Okay, I can totally understand if this is just rejected without a second thought but I really wanna discuss this possibility.

From the very start you accepted the possibility of player opinion inconsistency and general logic incompatibility that would certainly not lead to congenial , suitable discussion where players can agree on something. The problem is you forgot your one of the players.

It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

Irrelevant. I don't see how this feature will bring any interest in towns , nor something good for gameplay. The idea sounds very far-fetched and for a good reason. Capturing faction membersalts that are stored in some storage room for ransom. Seriously ? I don't accept the concept in general , that's the first thing that needs to be done by any player in order to provide some kind of positive feedback , even though it will not always be very constructed , but that doesn't mean those players don't have viable points. Points , that you are ignoring and aren't thinking through enough.

Do you want me to continue ?

T-888, seriously.  You're complaining about the alt retardation in the picture?  The whole game is about alts, ESPECIALLY now.  So that's not a good excuse to blow off a suggestion.

Quite dumb and careless to make things even worse. Current situation in server needs to be readjusted and from what i have read you understand that much more thorough than most of the players here. Under no circumstances we should embrace ideas that encourages alting , i myself support the principle that less alts i need to play efficiently the better. The thing is , there's a possibility that developers don't agree that FR encourages alting. Maybe , just MAYBE they think it makes no difference ( maybe they don't have time to fix anything , or now it's an engine problem , who knows?!?! ) , but i certainly don't think they just spontaneously changed their minds about alts , because they have always been against them.

This suggestion will just never happen , deal with it.

Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 19, 2012, 04:30:28 am
I personally gave up about the alt thing.

I think devs just got tired of the whole deal and let it happen now.

So I don't think it really matters at this point, the arguments in relation to alts.

The rest of what you said (first two quotings) make no sense or I am simply not understanding you're point.  I literally do not see any point that backs up your claim that this is a bad suggestion.  Besides possibly the third quote.  You're just basically saying "no it's bad it is no good".

And if you're gonna mention I am ignoring others points, when I've been attempting to debate constructively with almost literally every person posting on the thread...  Countering their statements with facts or, highly likely scenarios. :-\

Yes, I did foreshadow the likelihood of this suggestion being shot down.  But I would prefer that people at least attempt at a sensible argument for their conclusion at least.  Something you had ultimately failed to do.  And still appear to in my case at least.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Malice Song on April 19, 2012, 11:59:30 am
game is all about alts.  It would not prevent anyone from playing the game, it would prevent people from playing with a certain character until a certain pre-requisite is met.

Nah, game isn't about alts, it's about tent decoration. See what I did there?
The problem with a statement like that is not only that it is highly debatable imo, but also that - since you are not arguing for a feature that prevents people from playing the game in itself - the whole validity of your suggestion as a reasonable feature depends on that assumption being true, otherwise it would act as a symbolical off-switch again, at least for part of your playerbase (and for what it's worth most likely the vast majority of new players). In other words, if you accept the prohibitve nature of such a system as terrible design, your counterargument to that is "you're playing the game wrong".

However let's cast that aside for a moment and address a few more concrete points. A few pieces of information as a baseline: technically I'm part of a player faction. Two people, two chars, no alts. Surprisingly, depending on what you think our ambitions are, we're actually doing pretty good. Rather nonsurprisingly I can tell you right now that ambitions definitely don't involve anything that require alts for validity.

So let's imagine I get captured.

How is my faction going to be notified? Hopefully that is not expected from me, because not everyone is using IRC, I surely won't have a radio while being imprisoned and PM seems like a great idea to just drag the situation out further. In any case smaller factions that could add diversity are going to take it up the ass, simply because a lot less players would be online to receive a notification and act upon it.

So let's say there's an attempt to bust me out, what's my role in this? Running, I'd expect, but since, because of the outlined communication issues, there's a non-zero chance I don't know when that would happen, I'd have to idle around in a cell in the meantime, doing exactly nothing. Of course I could try to chat it up with my guards relying on my charme to get me out of that mess, but chances are they weren't too talkative when they opened fire to begin with. Also, the whole busting out scenario is now kind of off the table, so smaller factions that could add diversity are going to take it even deeper.

Last option: ransom. Where would it be delivered? Since you probably wouldn't trade with anyone without seeing the goods, there's basically one place left to make the exchange. So where I was careless (or what ever circumstances led to my captivity), my teammate(s) are now forced into potentially repeating that mistake. Not to mention that one payment of 24k may not be a big deal, but it would potentially add up. Smaller factions ... you get the idea.

Obviously there's workarounds for those problems, but off the top of my hat I can't think of any that not only don't involve alts, but also almost trivialize the issue. Alts for base creation that just add pvp builds as friends, so no one of your targeted audience is even viable for capturing as has already been mentioned, for example. Or simply ignoring the situation for 24 hours, if the alt is released after that anyways. And possibly not taking part in any action where that alt could see use, I'd imagine.

Now what are the implications here? I'd assume the impact on your target player base is minimal at best. From my perspective occupied towns are dangerous to begin with. Which is fine. Once I drop there's a reasonable chance I get my ass bursted and sent to respawn. Now change "getting shot in two seconds" to "getting pummeled for what seems like ages by a HH troll that doesn't do too much damage (we don't want to kill the hostage, after all)" and "1 minute respawn and loss of whatever I carried" to "out cold for a day". In other words, since I chose to play a single character, there is absolutely no viable scenario in which I'd ever visit one of those locations again, effectively turning content associated with high risk into practically near inaccessible content. If that sounds like too much whine, imagine I'd flip the tables and propose no access to guarded towns for alts. Would be ridiculous, wouldn't it?

One of the few things I like about this game is how people who enjoy the RPG/social aspects of it can blend together with players more interested in interfaction conflict. In fact I think it's its redeeming quality and while I'm certainly not a fan of some of the recent changes, it's a tough job to balance these two groups against each other. What doesn't help, however, is pretending one group doesn't exist or flatout telling them they're playing the wrong game. Which may even seem that way from your point of view, but I am under the impression that the majority of new players I meet (and it's been a few) actually don't initially plan on developing multiple personalities, but often do so out of perceived necessity - or simply quit. Bottom line is, while I am highly in favor of almost anything that adds realism and/or makes the game actually harsh, right now I fail to see how such a feature would do anything but being a mild annoyance at best for one part of the player base while severly fucking the other.

On a personal note, yes, if such a thing even exists, I am probably playing the game wrong. However that usually leads to me trying to assist new players I meet by helping them out with some gear/hides take them along to get their feet wet by shooting at Brahmin in RT or stuff like that. If I were playing the game "correctly", chances are I'd advise them to make alts for bursting and looting in guarded towns, imagine how much fun that would be for all involved. Generally diversity is not something you want to get rid off.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 19, 2012, 12:51:18 pm
@malice Song -  This is what I was looking for! :D

You win though, hands down.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: T-888 on April 19, 2012, 01:12:13 pm
The rest of what you said (first two quotings) make no sense or I am simply not understanding you're point.  I literally do not see any point that backs up your claim that this is a bad suggestion.  Besides possibly the third quote.  You're just basically saying "no it's bad it is no good".

First is irony , second quote brings up the irrelevance of the feature , you don't even explain why this feature should be implemented what good it would bring ? In the third quote , i'm implying how alting shouldn't be encouraged , because you gave up on alting doesn't make that an obsolete argument. Now you have a big wall of text quite clearly why alting is bad , it could have been told in a lot of less words but that will do too.

Simple , yet strong example. Loner joins a faction and level's up his first build , he get's caught and now he can't do anything about it , what if he's faction can't help him at the moment ? Simple answer - more alts. Stupid.

So yeah , your ignoring arguments. Not only that , but flaws of this feature too.

Yes, I did foreshadow the likelihood of this suggestion being shot down.  But I would prefer that people at least attempt at a sensible argument for their conclusion at least.  Something you had ultimately failed to do.  And still appear to in my case at least.

Whatever man , players don't like this suggestion , don't like it in general. This suggestion is not well put , it simply isn't. What more to do you want , for each player to write an essay about this crap ?

~cuttheveins ~suicide

It doesn't work if you have more health than zero. Most of the time you wouldn't even have the chance to do it , then again this only proves there's no point of this feature ...
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Michaelh139 on April 19, 2012, 10:05:02 pm
The effect of this suggestion is this

Losing in intense pvp has the chance of actually having the extreme repurcussions it should have.

intense pertaining to faction vs faction wars.  gang vs gang.

You ignored my mentioning that you would be released in 24 hours though that was directed to someone else's argument.

Also in main post, that knocked out may require the adding that you can commit suicide just as -HP.

See?  You "ignore" shit too.


Every suggestion has flaws, that's why you iron them out with logical discussions and suggest things to fix the issues.  But this discussion is done.
Title: Re: Capture and ransom - Faction PvP feature
Post by: Kilgore on April 19, 2012, 11:08:01 pm
Kilgore, shut up and read the suggestion more thoroughly :).  or, perhaps read it at all.
I've read it and decided to not waste my time on proving that this suggestion is infinitely retarded.