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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Simon on February 14, 2012, 04:56:21 pm
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(https://i.imgur.com/hJhNj.jpg)
A crit in my HEAD not eyes, from a max range laser rifle (cheap/easy to obtain weapon) WITHOUT bypassing against my 100/100 BA helmet and bonehead trait.
But the real funny thing about this is that the actual head and eye crits that bypass don't even do this much damage, usually doing 110~190.
Unless my avenger crits from range I can't even reach this damage so I might as well throw it away and take up a sniper build ey?
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It was a bypass. As far as i know, if you get killed by a shot with armor bypass, the bypass is not mentioned in the log. I guess it could be considered combat message bug (not sure if this bug was reported).
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If that is the case mayck, then am I the only one that finds it retarded that a simple laser head bypass crit can potentially completely destroy any character without 200+ hp or severly wound them? I thought this was the job of insta kills from a plasma melt.
T
High damage crits from weapons that Crazy described are understandable but come on a laser?
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You can eat an instant from a sniper rifle, get blowed to pieces by a crit avenger burst, sliced in two from a gatling shot. Being OS is shitty, but I don't see why it's related to laser. The day we will see full team of laser in TC, that will mean it's OP. For now, it isn't.
NB: and Mayck is right, this is a bypass, only not displayed.
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I got bonehead,man of steel and people just can easily crit me over 200 damage everytime.
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Damage of laser rifle is retarded :D
it can score of 240 dmg what is jsut ridiculus
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I got bonehead,man of steel and people just can easily crit me over 200 damage everytime.
That's just untrue.
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He just wants to say that he does not like getting crits from laser, so he wants to see no more critical hits caused by a laser sniper. It`s so childish.
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I just fail to understand why a mere laser can score such high damage compared to other bigger or better weapons. And remember, this is damage from hitting the head, not even the eyes.
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Energy have always been very effective when scoring bypass, because they have high damage to compensate the high DR and the fact there is no DR reduction. A laser is a fine weapon, that's all.
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Make insta kills impossible.
Lower damage, please, and keep the insta killing power attacks to only weapons like gauss+.
Getting insta'd by a laser, sniper, plasma, avenger, m60, even lower tier weapons such as smgs and assault rifle, it's all shitty in a game such as this, where such weapons are so readily accessible. It's shitty for any MMO, not just FOnline.
No one likes going in full gear to try and fight another group only to find themselves hit by 1 individual for instant death in one go, and vice versa. But it is understandable if they're hit by 3 people at the same time and instantly killed. At least, that's my take on the whole thing.
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michaelh139 stop crying about instant kills, i know you love mercs and you cant handle them because of current loyalty system. crits are crits, so they allways will be OP, but laser are really op now, they are much better than plasma rifles now
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Michael is right, there must be a limit for randomness, i feel completely idiot that critical builds just clic on the enemy and pray to hit hard, i quit last season because i felt sad how i killed everyone by odds, i mean i clic and BOOM headshot to 0HP, was i awesome? NO, kill someone this way is just awesome in any singleplayer game, but in a multiplayer game it makes me feel void :P
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I've slightly reduced some of the crit modifiers today, though I think uncalled probably needs to come down too, judging by the crits I was getting on CA with jackhammers :/
With bonehead and a helmet on you really shouldn't be getting such huge damage all that often. Its pretty hard to read through the hyperbole to judge any decent feedback.
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Actually Solar, yes crits are very powerful, but I think the problem lay more in the frequency of bypasses than in multipliers. All those OS crits are pretty much bypassing crits. Drastically reduce those and people will prolly complain less about that issue.
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I really was only complaining about the damage from a laser rifle crit, I don't know why you are mixing them with pancor crits, I have no problem with weapons like that, they don't do ridiculous damage like a laser rifle crit did.
And crits from gatling lasers or avengers I don't mind if they do some damage like 400~ from range because that is what is expected from such powerful weapons and they are harder to get crits with than a simple laser rifle which can do 200~ damage, perhaps they should be lowered to still do massive amounts of damage but not instakill, I don't want to go into insta kills from powerful weapons, that's another topic and I have nothing to say about it.
This topic was just about what I thought were OP crits from a laser rifle, not crits from any other gun.
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I've slightly reduced some of the crit modifiers today, though I think uncalled probably needs to come down too, judging by the crits I was getting on CA with jackhammers :/
With bonehead and a helmet on you really shouldn't be getting such huge damage all that often. Its pretty hard to read through the hyperbole to judge any decent feedback.
Keep in mind that if you toggle the chances alot, players will be forced to create max crit chance builds only. In last session we had even 15% chance snipers, which brought variety to buildmaking.
It's effects that people don't like. In addition stonewall is level 9 perk now and quick recovery doesn't work (or so I hear).
Actually Solar, yes crits are very powerful, but I think the problem lay more in the frequency of bypasses than in multipliers. All those OS crits are pretty much bypassing crits. Drastically reduce those and people will prolly complain less about that issue.
Wasn't it so that luck1 makes you receive alot of bypasses? My char with bonehead, ca helmet and man of steel doesn't get that much over the top crits but when I get hit by laser or plasma it's still around 100 dmg because of bypass. Dumping luck gives 4 free points which is alot so guess it should have some tradeoffs too.
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Wasn't it so that luck1 makes you receive alot of bypasses?
Thats true.
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I really was only complaining about the damage from a laser rifle crit, I don't know why you are mixing them with pancor crits, I have no problem with weapons like that, they don't do ridiculous damage like a laser rifle crit did.
And I was just mentioning what I would be doing, as I was mentioning changing crit modifiers ... what is your problem? :/
About bypass rate, yeah, dumping luck will have an effect ... but even then, with Bonehead and CA Helmet on it shouldn't be *that* common. You would be giving -20 on the damage table (essentially negating the better criticals) so @ target Luck 1 you're looking at @23% chance of a bypass when you get a critical to the head.
Say you get the absolute best critical chance shooting into the head, 10 + 40 + 15 + 9.5 - 10 = 64.5% chance => ~15% of shots should be bypassing.
At 5 target luck that chance is about half of that too.
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Solar, do you sure that man of steel work true ?
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With Bonehead and CA Helmet on it shouldn't be *that* common. You would be giving -20 on the damage table (essentially negating the better criticals)
If i count right with Ca Helmet and bonehead or bonehead+man of steel or man of steel + Ca Helmet you cant be instant killed because roll cant be more 100 but look likes something goes wrong and you still can be instakilled.
*Time to lvlup EW Snipers!*
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Yes, with any 2 of those 3 you should be immune to insta death.
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Yes, with any 2 of those 3 you should be immune to insta death.
Why is insta death still in the game anyways though?
It's may be neat fallout mechanic but no one likes being insta'd in an mmo where you gotta work to get your gear. It feels like you've been cheated, like when you get thrown into an encounter in TB with 5 TB BGers on your crafter or RT battle-char. It's shitty. :P
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It is pretty rare, even on a bluesuit with no perks and average En.
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We tested 2 chars.
First : Bonhead + CA helmet + MoS
Second : Bonhead + CA helmet
We shooted in them 50 times in the arms and 50 times in the head; writed effect of that. And similar that in this two cases no different. Even with 10 endurance + bonhead + MoS + CA helmet you knock down very often. Cripling arms with MoS not less that without it. May be 100 shots this is small amount, but 15th lvl for this perk is enough high.
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Even with 10 endurance + bonhead + MoS + CA helmet you knock down very often.
i had char with 10en bonehead mos ca helmet stonewall quick recovery, after 2 knockdown+knockout in row i just forget about this char;D
btw quick recovery not working/useless against crits for now and stonewall+quick recovery not helping against heavy handed at all
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We tested 2 chars.
First : Bonhead + CA helmet + MoS
Second : Bonhead + CA helmet
We shooted in them 50 times in the arms and 50 times in the head; writed effect of that. And similar that in this two cases no different. Even with 10 endurance + bonhead + MoS + CA helmet you knock down very often. Cripling arms with MoS not less that without it. May be 100 shots this is small amount, but 15th lvl for this perk is enough high.
Just a sidenote: even though MoS might not work, knockdowns are actually pretty common in the crit tables. Or that's how it seems. I did some crit testing in cbt and looks as if most headshots crits do knockdown.
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Or at least force you to have an En roll for them, anyway.
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And I was just mentioning what I would be doing, as I was mentioning changing crit modifiers ... what is your problem? :/
Sorry if I sound like I am arguing or something with you, I'm not, I just don't know the mechanics as well as you and was confused why you were looking at the damage from pancor crits in relation to laser crits. Sorry again.
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All this rumor about one insta kill??!! Maybe you are BG with all that thougness, balls of steal, but you surely got 1lk, so it could happen to you I guess...
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I am only trolling here because of Manero's as always excellent choice of Avatar.. anyway.. I think every shot should be insta kill. but thats just my IRL opinion.. sorry.. but its how weapons work.. you get hit.. you die.. simple yet perfected over 10,000 years or so...
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I think every shot should be insta kill. but thats just my IRL opinion.. sorry.. but its how weapons work.. you get hit.. you die.. simple yet perfected over 10,000 years or so...
That's actually an incorrect statement. Many people every day survive being shot and recover from their gunshot wounds. Admittedly in wasteland environment you would die from infection due to lack of hygiene and medical equipment, if you were in BOS or Enclave you might stand a better chance. You are looking at survival rates from the wild west era.
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Actually... you are looking at a game, not real life.
In rpgs you never die in one shot. Actually some fights take very long.
In mmorpgs rules are similar.
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dont even try to talk to Solar, he will paste his excel files that clearly shows Avenger as the best weapon, and here is my question. What the helmets are for? Why u people took armor apart if it doesnt help at all ? The whole weapon/ammo/prize/dmg/weight/craftable or lootable from enocunters thing is so imbalanced, that i dont get who could have made it.
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dont even try to talk to Solar, he will paste his excel files that clearly shows Avenger as the best weapon, and here is my question. What the helmets are for? Why u people took armor apart if it doesnt help at all ? The whole weapon/ammo/prize/dmg/weight/craftable or lootable from enocunters thing is so imbalanced, that i dont get who could have made it.
It's for when 3D is finally implemented, and more customizeable outfittings.
Let's say enemy has avengers and laser snipers.
Take BA and Tesla helmet. Pretty cool to me.
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Yes take tesla what will give u a shit coz dont give any crit modification :D
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naturally since you dont need luck to get perks like toughness and brd, you dump to 1. but with 1 luck, crits bypass your armor more often. so what is the point of putting points in luck if it doesnt effect anything else about your character but how one character type effects you?
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Actually I fixed the tesla helmet when I was doubling helmet chance modifying effect, so wait for update and they'll work
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I've slightly reduced some of the crit modifiers today, though I think uncalled probably needs to come down too, judging by the crits I was getting on CA with jackhammers :/
With bonehead and a helmet on you really shouldn't be getting such huge damage all that often. Its pretty hard to read through the hyperbole to judge any decent feedback.
How about you actually start playing the game, instead of fucking around with jackhammers and screwing up the balance entirely? You do realise that damage tables are not the only thing you have to take into account, as different weapons have different range, big guns require you to position yourself next to someone to be fully effective and for example a gatling laser requires you to reload every 3 shots, while a laser rifle has 12 or even 24 shots in a clip. I don't even want to mention that every aimed shot has a chance to completely hinder your combat ability, wheter it's a knock down, knock out or a crippled limb, you've already lost.
Try running up 50 hexes to a sniper, even with two characters with that awesome jackhammer of yours.
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Glave did bring up some valid points although not in a sensible manner.
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How about you actually start playing the game, instead of fucking around with jackhammers and screwing up the balance entirely? You do realise that damage tables are not the only thing you have to take into account, as different weapons have different range, big guns require you to position yourself next to someone to be fully effective and for example a gatling laser requires you to reload every 3 shots, while a laser rifle has 12 or even 24 shots in a clip. I don't even want to mention that every aimed shot has a chance to completely hinder your combat ability, wheter it's a knock down, knock out or a crippled limb, you've already lost.
Try running up 50 hexes to a sniper, even with two characters with that awesome jackhammer of yours.
Enjoy your 2 week holiday.
Glave did bring up some valid points although not in a sensible manner.
No, no he didn't.
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Well I thought the laser rifle's high rate of fire and bonus of knocking down, knocking out or crippling on top of their current high damage output was something to note.
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They're different weapons, this much is obvious. Just because you type stuff in an angry fashion doesn't make you correct.
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"Glave did bring up some valid points although not in a sensible manner."
No, no he didn't.
Actually he did. He brought up that you should listen to players because they are testers and know from first hand experience.
And blame it on whatever you want to but you banned the man because he does not see eye to eye with you.
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As a player, I don't find laser rifle OP (not really more than DKS), and I insist that reducing bypasses chance for all table would make crit, in general, less "uberdeadly". Btw, I noticed that psycho and jet is only +/-5DR instead of 15, is that bug or intended?
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Actually he did. He brought up that you should listen to players because they are testers and know from first hand experience.
And blame it on whatever you want to but you banned the man because he does not see eye to eye with you.
No, he was banned for posting like a complete retard. People can disagree with me all they want, I've said several times the so much changed that balance was a pin in the map exercise which needed changing based on player experience. If I didn't want feedback I wouldn't bother reading these threads at all :-\
If they can make a valid point then they can affect a change, if they can't then at least they've been listened to.
I read conflicting reports about weapons all the time, balance is an opinion, not fact.
I really don't get it, I'm taking the time to bother replying to you and people come back with moronic trolling posts. Here's a nice little warning, just to help you out. Post in a constructive manner and post something valuable and that's good, continue trolling me and I will ban you, my patience is wearing very thin.
I can promise you I won't be being trolled out of balance threads, what will happen is people will be taking holidays the forum if they can't post in a reasonable manner. Simple.
As a player, I don't find laser rifle OP (not really more than DKS), and I insist that reducing bypasses chance for all table would make crit, in general, less "uberdeadly". Btw, I noticed that psycho and jet is only +/-5DR instead of 15, is that bug or intended?
Bug, nothing on the drugs should have changed.
I think a lot of the bypass moaning is coming from players now dumping their luck stat, its pretty much the same old table.
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No, he was banned for posting like a complete retard. People can disagree with me all they want, I've said several times the so much changed that balance was a pin in the map exercise which needed changing based on player experience. If I didn't want feedback I wouldn't bother reading these threads at all :-\
If they can make a valid point then they can affect a change, if they can't then at least they've been listened to.
I can promise you I won't be being trolled out of balance threads, what will happen is people will be taking holidays the forum if they can't post in a reasonable manner. Simple.
I get it but I feel like the way you treated him was pretty degrading. You demonstrated your power over him by banning him and also dismissed anything he said with "No, no he didn't." He was obviously very frustrated and just wanted to make a point.
It was very elitist of you. To me you're not any better than him nor is your opinion more important because developers need players just as players need developers.
And "retard" is a very strong word. I personally know very smart and capable people who suffer from mental or physical disorders. I really urge everyone against using it in their vocabulary.
Solar, I think you overreacted and should unban the guy. A warning and edit of his post would have been enough and maybe he would come back with a noteworthy argument.
And maybe think about your ways more.
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Solar, he did mention important things, although in a douchy way.
What range your weapon has and how often you reload are very important. When you are trying to get in range, when you are reloading, when you are doing anything other than shooting within your opponents sight and range you are eating shots instead.
Also, I just got no bypass critted to the head with BA by a laser or plasma rifle for over 200 damage and it wasn't an instakill.
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Also, I just got no bypass critted to the head with BA by a laser or plasma rifle for over 200 damage and it wasn't an instakill.
Being hit bit a laser for 200 without bypass seem impossible to me.
Anyway about insta kills, could they finally be removed once and for all? I mean, hell, we ALL know it's a shitty thing, it doesn't have it's place in multiplayer game, and yet, after all this time, it's still there. It doesn't matter if it's one time on two hundreds, it's still bullshit.
(yes, I've just been insta killed during a fight where I was having fun until this, but that instant at 240 from a fucking unarmed is a good reason to complain !)
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Being hit bit a laser for 200 without bypass seem impossible to me.
Anyway about insta kills, could they finally be removed once and for all? I mean, hell, we ALL know it's a shitty thing, it doesn't have it's place in multiplayer game, and yet, after all this time, it's still there. It doesn't matter if it's one time on two hundreds, it's still bullshit.
Agreed here. It doesn't matter how rare those instas are because they simply suck and nobody's gonna miss them once they are gone.
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I would. I like some rare instakills, because it makes attacking other, even very weak players at least a little bit risky.
It's not only a matter of simple calculation "I have bigger gun so I will win".
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Bug, nothing on the drugs should have changed.
I like this bug.
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I would. I like some rare instakills, because it makes attacking other, even very weak players at least a little bit risky.
It's not only a matter of simple calculation "I have bigger gun so I will win".
Actually those weak players who supposedly use instas as self defense hardly benefit from it. Crit-spewing trolls who keep coming back again and again and again benefit from it most. Basically anything that makes weak bluesuits more powerful, helps trolls more.
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If nothing on drugs should be changed then why buffout give +1 endure instead of 2 now D:?
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If nothing on drugs should be changed then why buffout give +1 endure instead of 2 now D:?
Same with jet, it is not working propertly. Last session when you have 0 DR and take jet you gain -15DR, and now it decrease DR only if you have it from(psyho,toughness)
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Cookie, understand this. You are all here playing our hobby. We are not here making your game.
If you can not post in a civil way you'll be gone, that's all there is to it. He's lucky it was only 2 weeks.
its pretty easy to work out the max damage you can do without a bypass, try it :p
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Max is just over 100 without a bypass to CA from a plasma rifle by the way.
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Into brand new but nobody have brand new Ca's ;)
and can u anserw about drugs?
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...but nobody have brand new Ca's ;)
Wrong, lots of people have it ;>
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Sure, if its degraded down to bluesuit level you're going to suffer, but then who cares about bypassing nothing in that case? ;)
I need to check if the change to the way deterioration affects armour has been done actually.
Drugs, no idea why they'd be changed, they shouldn't be.
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Same with jet, it is not working propertly. Last session when you have 0 DR and take jet you gain -15DR, and now it decrease DR only if you have it from(psyho,toughness)
I want to know about this. Will it be changed to work like it did in the last session?
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Make insta kills impossible.
Lower damage, please, and keep the insta killing power attacks to only weapons like gauss+.
Getting insta'd by a laser, sniper, plasma, avenger, m60, even lower tier weapons such as smgs and assault rifle, it's all shitty in a game such as this, where such weapons are so readily accessible. It's shitty for any MMO, not just FOnline.
No one likes going in full gear to try and fight another group only to find themselves hit by 1 individual for instant death in one go, and vice versa. But it is understandable if they're hit by 3 people at the same time and instantly killed. At least, that's my take on the whole thing.
Michael, it seems you are always right. Oh, the wise and well spoken one. Almost every thread that I've read has plenty of these heckling attitudes expressed by people who probably just love exploiting the faults of the game. (i.e. the child calling someone "childish") These "instakills" should at least be a very rare circumstance. Does FOnline use the dice system like the real Fallouts? What Mr. Simon is illustrating here is the obvious and common problem of balance. I guess i should avoid the subject so i don't get banned myself...