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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => General Game Discussion => Topic started by: Alexandrite on October 25, 2011, 06:07:35 am
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What's up with the GMs not being around to regulate the rules of the game and not doing anything about the players in the game cheating (spamming, dual logging, etc.)
So far I've seen about 10 people dual log in NCR in the past month of October and September...
I've also seen like 5-7 people spam...
Why aren't the GMs doing anything to stop this!?
Here's a few people I've seen dual log in NCR:
- WalterBishop
- Fuck UglyKid
- Ugly Kid Joe
And lots of others I am not mentioning...
All I want to here is what is being done about this...
Who's with me?
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spaming and dualogging is not a big deal.
dualogging is only serouis when its done in tc when its just for putting new chars into a base or running around i dont really see the problem.
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Here's a few people I've seen dual log in NCR:
- WalterBishop
- Fuck UglyKid
- Ugly Kid Joe
"Fuck UglyKid" and i beleive the other was "Ziash" were unarmed guys that would kill me everytime i went back to NCR, aswell as trying to kill me at replication a number of times (Got me once :/) But i cannot say for certain any of them were Dual-Logging.
Ugly Kid Joe is me, and i admit i have dual-logged once or twice to see if it was possible, but that was when i first started out, and before i found the importance of "G".
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Because while GMs cant do any interesting events they at least do not fuck up with standard gameplay. Without duallog the game is such a discomfortable thing.
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I cannot agree. I have never dual logged and play 2238 probably more often than you. It is possible to play this game without cheating though I don't want to judge people who do.
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Dual logging can be used for various things. It's bad when used in pvp to scout and spawn additional pvp chars or in safe towns when used to shoot'n'loot.
However many players use it to create tents and escort theirs and their friends' characters to bases. This kind of cheating doesn't hurt anyone.
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Hell yeah , dual log for life ;D gm's have already banned 4 my characters , but only 2 were actually dual logging the second pair had similar nicknames and one char was shared so when both characters where active , gm banned both didn't even wait for someone to come back , i was afk and the other char was afk too since i didn't see any response in log when i came back. So then why there is a possibility to make similar nickname characters if game masters ban them ?
Is it against the rules for two characters in game to be at the same time with similar nicknames , how does it indicate dual log , it could be brothers or just friends or like in my situation shared character? Like wtf , if i would give my friend to play a character for example Triple888S and myself to play with Tripleight , a gm most probably would ban both but for what ?
I won't try to explain any things to gorlak , because he is most probably not interested anyway.
btw are there any ingame rules written down somewhere for people to read ?
ehh nvm i found them
i read rules and there is nothing about having two characters with similar nicknames ingame being wrong.
so if game masters can't respect the rules , i won't too.
and by the fucking way , i remember that one member from hawks or tsar told me that tttla has used a version of my nickname Triple888C but i don't have that kind of character and it doesn't matter who used my char tttla or some troll i can get banned in the end , so i will get banned randomly some day , it's dangerous to leave my character afk. Just some bullshit.
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and by the fucking way , i remember that one member from hawks or tsar told me that tttla has used a version of my nickname Triple888C but i don't have that kind of character and it doesn't matter who used my char tttla or some troll i can get banned in the end
TTTLA have nothing to do with that, it's just false. "Stealing" nicks is against our policy and we usually despise those who do it. (people yelling they are TTTLA while slaughtering miners is also a frequent thing)
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Okay , nothing personal against you , it just really doesn't matter who would use a character that has similar nickname to mine , it is like i would be using some avv version.
This thing is bothering me , game masters are making their own rules , so rules should be changed or game masters start acting as how they supposed to - following the existing rules.
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Who's with me?
no one.
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no one.
dude,gm's are already doing their best,they aren t paid for that.And don't bother about dual log,it s just necessary to avoid shitty game mechanics.That means,live and let live,please.
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dude,gm's are already doing their best,they aren t paid for that.
The funny thing they aren't paid to be game masters at all or forced.
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What is dual log ?
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As far as i know,2 or more chars from 1 ip on the same time is thing that gets you banned,not similar/same nicknames..although the second can be used as a good pointer
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Because while GMs cant do any interesting events they at least do not fuck up with standard gameplay. Without duallog the game is such a discomfortable thing.
Your kidding right?
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Dual logging can be used for various things. It's bad when used in pvp to scout and spawn additional pvp chars or in safe towns when used to shoot'n'loot.
However many players use it to create tents and escort theirs and their friends' characters to bases. This kind of cheating doesn't hurt anyone.
Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.
Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.
Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.
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standard gameplay
Quit the game.
Please.
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Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.
Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.
Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.
well then maybe anothers should not wait fuck what about someone like me who has no one in my base sense all others quit the game? i should not be able to add new alts to my base?
dont get me wrong i have never dual loged myself i dont even know how to but its getting more and more of a better idea to me everyday. i need alts added.
dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.
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dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.
Really lame is keeping fighting ready characters on world map that is the most lamest thing you can do with dual log , rest is acceptable , even scouts in TC because there are ways how to make them useless anyway.
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As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.
I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else :) (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)
I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.
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Hell yeah , dual log for life ;D gm's have already banned 4 my characters , but only 2 were actually dual logging the ... blah blah
whine moar, if you dualloged you deserve it.
I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever
nah There always were some players who supported it. But offcourse always just minority :/
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As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.
How does the other staff cause you a headache when trying to solve problems without breaking rules? And why would you care what some players say? The majority of those are trolls... others are just angry and letting off steam or uneducated at the game. And there is no reason to reply that the rules are fair, because they are fair. Nuff said. Also, this is a thread saying dual-logging should be punished, so is this not motivation enough to go out and do the right thing that you and very few other people have the ability to? Unlike the helpless players being punished by the very cheaters you should be catching?
I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else :) (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)
Surely you've gotten a thank you, or a thumbs up, or some "friendly" critique. Because I've seen it. On the forum, about your events. It is hardly 99% negative feedback. and even less are insults, for forum at least. And the people insulting you are the more than likely the very people who break the rules, so you should really be taking pride in it, or if you really think it is deserved, look into the situation.
I figure GMs are as offline as much for same reason as players, waiting for wipe, not this.
I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.
We're "all" guilty? That's a pretty broad accusation, and I think for this and this alone, you do deserve to be insulted, because hardly everyone is to blame just because some players are trolling you, or that you or others choose to stop using your ability for the better good of the beta-test. And players fight for fair game every day, whenever they report to GMs cheating players, or report to GMs about bugs. I also don't see how GMs are struggling. They're/Your job isn't to develop content, only to disable bugs for fixing, or ban cheaters, which only really requires you sitting around watching youtube vids waiting for a player to report a problem, and for you to do a quick investigation, and make a decision, then it's back to youtube or whatever your other internet preference is.
I don't have any right to tell you you have to do a good job, or you have to do it period. But I do want you to understand why I felt this post was wrong, and possibly misinformed/understood. It's not like you have to listen to players complain. Just avoid their posts all-together and try to focus on what positive you can find.
I hope you reconsider your statement on not bothering with the cheaters, and understand where I am coming from.
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As a GM, to struggle so that rules are not broken brings more problem than not doing it, both from the rest of the staff and, above, all, from players. It is frequent to see someone posting a thread to complain about the rules, but rarer to see someone reply to say rules are fair, dual-log should be punished, or to defend GMs.
I personnally settled this down with the team around one year ago, when I decided to stop fighting for the rules - where nobody will support you, ever - and focus on the making of events. Though lack of time is still a problem for me and everyone else :) (Note: same problem applies to events, you always get 99% negative "feedbacks" (i.e. insults), but players that appreciate these would never post to support you. And then everyone wonders why events are rarer than ever..?)
I don't know if other GMs stopped checking dual-loggers and banning offenders, but if they did, then you're all guilty. Because if you wanted a fair game, then you should have fought for that instead of watching the GMs struggling. Enough said.
Okay this all doesn't sound candy and fun , i think game masters and even staff sometimes take the " negative feedback " too much to heart , it really depends on how you look at things.
If you see someone complaining , giving you your called negative feedback , criticism and even insults?!?!(maybe from special persons witch you should just ignore) etc. etc. and you think of it " ahh another whiner who doesn't appreciate our work like we don't do enough already " or " oh look someone gives us feedback on what needs improvement next time we will act ".
Would you like to see all time positive feedback that everything is fine ? I hate to disappoint you but i ain't familiar with this kind of happy land.
Do the staff and game masters need feedback about subjects , features , game mechanics etc. etc. that are already really fine , good , perfected and doesn't need any change ? This is not a troll i'm just asking. Because then i will start to make useless topics like " i love 2238 combat system " where i would count things witch i like about 2238 combat.
If you want players to support some impossible systems , rules and features that are horribly wrong then i think your out of luck.
If you still see that there is still a player base , a community , people are kicking ass and chewing bubble gum in redding then you must have done something very right and really good in the past few years to hold them here and they like this server , do you really need acknowledgement for such things ?
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Base escorts and joint tents increase the utility and flexibility of characters in teh game.
Getting those things done without having to wait for a friend to be online gives an advantage over those who do wait.
Logistic concerns are not inconsequential.
It's only away from my patience and my friend's patience when I have to bother them with some simple task. They have to stop whatever they were doing to help me with a thing that takes 1 minute, or I have to wait for them to finish the task. How is it away from my enemy that me and my pals don't have to deal with pointless waiting? Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?
In the end everyone will have all the gear and alts they want so getting gear and alts fast don't matter anymore. In such situation when I face my enemy somewhere with equal gear it doesn't matter a damn thing whether or not me or him had the advantage of transferring alts in base or making tents with dual logs. But if he or me dies in that combat and jumps back with a dual logged mercleader, it's starts to matter.
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Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?
I think that this question should explain difference between harshnes of wasteland and bad feature.
Anyway imho dual loging should be encouraged like in Eve and not prevented. We have low player population and if it become doubled because of dual logs it is still increase. You can anyway effectively manage only one char in combat. And if client would allow dualboxing it would simplify it for those already using it and allow it for everyone else.
Rules which are not taken seriously by most of comunity does not indicate that comunity is made of evil villans but that those rules are bad. Any rules which are not guarded by serverside scripts are easily bypassable and very hard and painfull to enforce.
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seriously
you compare 2238 with EVE ?
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I think that its impossible to prevent all people to dual log. And its true, some times it may be usefull (like making shared tent with your miner/crafter and your pvp character) and other times is bad (like having combat character in map, an dual loged merc leader in WM).
Instead of that should be regulated, so all people can do it safety and cool.
Another thing is about merc leaders. Its very unfair the current system, it whould be better to have less companions, and maybe with respawn.
Because the real thing in Fallout 2 about companions was that u cant have players helping you, so npc do the work.
But here, u can have human companions, so it should be balanced a little that feature. When i got a little time i whould make a post about the things that i like and dislike about sistem.
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Anyway imho dual loging should be encouraged like in Eve and not prevented. We have low player population and if it become doubled because of dual logs it is still increase. You can anyway effectively manage only one char in combat. And if client would allow dualboxing it would simplify it for those already using it and allow it for everyone else.
Allowing dualboxing just like that would deteriorate the gameplay and fonline as we know it would turn into multitask online. Instead we can observe for what dual logging is used mostly and then design features to discourage it.
Three main encouragements to dual log:
1. Escort jobs. Small jobs that require another player's presence. Most common are base adding and tentmaking.
2. Avoiding cooldowns
3. Pvp
First reason can be prevented by allowing one character to make as many tents as he wishes and call additional characters in that tent. In addition inviting characters to tents and bases shouldn't require escort. Once the char is invited or befriended, he sees the base or tent on worldmap.
Second reason can be avoided by removing cooldowns and replacing them with something that demands constant attention. This is already on the works and we will see how it turns out.
Last one, pvp is trickier. The core problem is that anyone can enter towns at any time and trying to change that would be impossible. Yet the troubble dual logs cause in pvp is the worst but it's also most visible and easiest to notice. We have proxy looters, scouts, merc leaders and additional full geared pvp chars.
Proxy scouts and looters could be harassed by making dying more severe and costly so that these characters can't be spammed for free.
At this moment banhammer is the best medicine vs pvp dual logging. It's so easy to notice because nobody in his right mind brings a non-combat bluesuit character in combat as his main.
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Don't judge too quick, there were GMs called on me and a friend because our names had some similarity.
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well then maybe anothers should not wait fuck what about someone like me who has no one in my base sense all others quit the game? i should not be able to add new alts to my base?
dont get me wrong i have never dual loged myself i dont even know how to but its getting more and more of a better idea to me everyday. i need alts added.
dual logging for tc i do think is lame but for tents and bases no real problem.
My gang stopped playing, too.
I ask for an escort or 2 when they drop by, if I remember.
It's only away from my patience and my friend's patience when I have to bother them with some simple task. They have to stop whatever they were doing to help me with a thing that takes 1 minute, or I have to wait for them to finish the task. How is it away from my enemy that me and my pals don't have to deal with pointless waiting? Is this game some sort of waiting competition where the one who gets bored first loses?
In the end everyone will have all the gear and alts they want so getting gear and alts fast don't matter anymore. In such situation when I face my enemy somewhere with equal gear it doesn't matter a damn thing whether or not me or him had the advantage of transferring alts in base or making tents with dual logs. But if he or me dies in that combat and jumps back with a dual logged mercleader, it's starts to matter.
The logistics subgame/metagame is influenced by ease of escorts/etc.
Patience can be just as decisive as twitch skills.
The "Wait Strategy" vs. "Zerg Strategy": which is better and why?
Discuss!
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Allowing dualboxing just like that would deteriorate the gameplay and fonline as we know it would turn into multitask online. Instead we can observe for what dual logging is used mostly and then design features to discourage it.
The sad thing is that fonline is already multi-online for many players , we just get used to it , there has to be a monster reasons for us to not use dual , multi logs.
At this moment banhammer is the best medicine vs pvp dual logging. It's so easy to notice because nobody in his right mind brings a non-combat bluesuit character in combat as his main.
It isn't , game masters see bluesuit proxy scouts running around the city but do they know what 2 characters to ban ? You can't ban one character for dual log it is nonsense. Proxies gives you the option to stay invisible from banhammers.
We have all the tools to dual , multi log some just do it because they can.
They should make the dual logging harder , at least decrease the number of players using it.
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dual log is awesome option, i mean that it helps a lot to get gear using duallog, it takes less time to craft etc.
But it's the worthest thing ever during combat, beacuse of a big ammount of looters, scouts, etc.
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I guess that is better to devs and GMs not post anything here. WHY?
Cheat sucks, but if everybody cheats then cheatting is not bad. like in the real life.
Devs must take a decision quick:
-Ban all cheaters, waste a lot of time doing that, and having to do that periodicallly
-Allow everyone to make dual-logging, with all the moral complications
Both situation will make people complain, you can't satisfice everybody, and you cant receive more than 10 or 20% of good commentaries about your job, but you can go to sleep in the night thinking that, after all, you did the right thing (even if it is not for others).
the actual situation means that some guys have more advantages than other guys: THE ONLY IMPORTANT RULE IN A GAME IS THAT EVERYBODY MUST HAVE THE SAME CHANCE (AND DIFERENT HABILITY, SO THAT DEFINES A GOOD PLAYER FROM A BAD PLAYER). duallogging is only unfair because only some guys do that, and others dont.
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It doesn't matter what is used for, crafting, tents, fighting, etc, multi logging is a cheat and it is "awarded" with permanent ban. It's really funny how some players are talking about multi logging like a feature...
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Gms react on duals or fast relogs, belive me, i dont have any chars to play:P I had to start all from begining after months of farming, crafting, etc. Dual is helpfull on makeing tents and bases, but cheat is cheat, now i got consequences. And theres no explain to Gorlak;(
Good luck multiloggers:D
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Gms react on duals or fast relogs, belive me, i dont have any chars to play:P I had to start all from begining after months of farming, crafting, etc. Dual is helpfull on makeing tents and bases, but cheat is cheat, now i got consequences. And theres no explain to Gorlak;(
Good luck multiloggers:D
What were you doing when Gorlak banned you?
I have seen a fair share of duel log banned.
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one of my chars was mining, second was on respawn after die in mine. I was colecting ore with them. both had similar nicks. Second time they ban me for fast relog, but it was by mestake, now dont use it, not worth. i have to create all from begining. but iam in half way:P
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The sad thing is that fonline is already multi-online for many players , we just get used to it , there has to be a monster reasons for us to not use dual , multi logs.
A feature that makes multi log useless is that monster reason. If you could make all the tents you needed with one char, you wouldn't need multilog.
If crafting and repairing required constant attention so that the more you interact with the char, the better results you get you don't have to dual log. It's obvious that cooldowns encourage dual logs but they are being scrapped.
It isn't , game masters see bluesuit proxy scouts running around the city but do they know what 2 characters to ban ? You can't ban one character for dual log it is nonsense. Proxies gives you the option to stay invisible from banhammers.
If you play pvp enough, you get to know to whom certain chars belong to or when something shady is going on. It'd take lots of attention but it'd be cool to have sort of "pvp gm" who knows the gang community and makes sure fair play happens. Kind of a referee.
But gm isn't a feature and it'd still be encouraging to dual log in pvp. A way to totally kill pvp multilogs would be instance-like nature. Hinkley has no dual logs and domination mode probably won't either if it's done so that once the fight is on, no additional troops get in. Because pvp is free and anyone can come and go as they like it makes dual logging harder to prevent with features. There are ways however.
Make worldmap travel and encountering the same for everyone - taxi proxy dies. Outdoorsman can be used for something else, like tracking sneakers and whatever survival related.
Make carryweight same for everyone - looter proxy gets a punch in the chin, the quality of gameplay improves in general because all chars become more versatile.
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If you play pvp enough, you get to know to whom certain chars belong to or when something shady is going on. It'd take lots of attention but it'd be cool to have sort of "pvp gm" who knows the gang community and makes sure fair play happens. Kind of a referee.
But gm isn't a feature and it'd still be encouraging to dual log in pvp. A way to totally kill pvp multilogs would be instance-like nature. Hinkley has no dual logs and domination mode probably won't either if it's done so that once the fight is on, no additional troops get in. Because pvp is free and anyone can come and go as they like it makes dual logging harder to prevent with features. There are ways however.
Game masters isn't the solution it really isn't.
Hinkley is a staged fight , it lacks many aspects of a real fight happening in redding or broken hills for example no loot , map is small and predictable no need for scouts and taxi well there is no one to taxi anywhere.
Make worldmap travel and encountering the same for everyone - taxi proxy dies. Outdoorsman can be used for something else, like tracking sneakers and whatever survival related.
Make carryweight same for everyone - looter proxy gets a punch in the chin, the quality of gameplay improves in general because all chars become more versatile.
All characters would become more equal not versatile , since this is a rpg we don't want that.
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dual log is very great for lone players its almost imposeble to play without it
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What I meant with hinkley was that it's like an instance: once it's on, you can't get additional chars in unlike in TC. If domination is similar, it will see alot less proxies too.
All characters would become more equal not versatile , since this is a rpg we don't want that.
Immersion has to bow before the functionality of mechanics. The point is: how would it matter if single char had equal cw and worldmap speed as everyone else if you already get that through proxy?
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I don't agree if a char with 1ST would be able to carry the same as someone with 10 then it wouldn't just break immersion but would render the stat useless we could just scrap all stats and skill and let everyone do anything.
Personally I think the solution would be to make min maxed chars undesirable. How? By introducing features that abolish the usefulness of those characters.
For example lets make a way to take the weapon from others by force using steal its success would depend on the character ST.
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I remember when i started this game, playing with my brother (not the same house, around 300kms away from me). We had similar nicknames, because of starting faction.
That time i was really out of forum, and even major knowledge about server so i just simply shocked when my (and my brother too) chars are moved to some basement location. there were no explanations, no askings, there were noone there. My char, and my brothers char were simply removed couple minutes later.
Since then i dont give a fuck to any 'rules', i cant even tell you if i know all the rules. I dont use dual logs, i dont see the point, but if i will need that i will do it for sure.
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I don't agree if a char with 1ST would be able to carry the same as someone with 10 then it wouldn't just break immersion but would render the stat useless
No it wouldn't because str has important role in gun accuracy and whether or not to get stonewall. Str 10 isn't useful even now except for pure hauler characters.
Equal carryweight for all exists in game such as Diablo and works fine.
we could just scrap all stats and skill and let everyone do anything.
You can already do everything with proxy and alts. All character builds and their abilities are at your disposal.
Personally I think the solution would be to make min maxed chars undesirable. How? By introducing features that abolish the usefulness of those characters.
Looter proxy exists because str2 char can't carry anything. If everyone could carry sufficiently and equally much players wouldn't feel the need for looter proxy.
For example lets make a way to take the weapon from others by force using steal its success would depend on the character ST.
That wouldn't change anything. Nobody's going to steal someone's gun in middle of pvp, it's better just to shoot.
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Diablo is a hack and slash rpg as far as I'm concerned Fallout was never meant to be something like that even though Diablo is a good game but it killed tons of my mouses....
About the gun stealing it wouldn't be possible in RT but in TB yeah I can imagine situation where I would rather take the gun then try to shoot like for example when I have none on me or my weapon is inferior. (Problems arrive with my ideas since I only think what would work out well in TB but thats only because I care less for RT actions)
So its not the best idea but then maybe making the character unable to use the gun without the needed strength or have it that st determines the chance for bone breaking too.
I think giving more consequences to low stats is a better way then bringing the low value closer to the top.
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spaming and dualogging is not a big deal.
dualogging is only serouis when its done in tc when its just for putting new chars into a base or running around i dont really see the problem.
I ttly agree, dual log for TC/PVP is ridiculous, but for base add i don't see any problem, actually what i see is people trying to fix, which imo is a game problem, the hard work that is to drive your char to your base when you have no friends or if u want to play alone, and be called cheaters.
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I ttly agree, dual log for TC/PVP is ridiculous, but for base add i don't see any problem, actually what i see is people trying to fix, which imo is a game problem, the hard work that is to drive your char to your base when you have no friends or if u want to play alone, and be called cheaters.
You don`t need the base if you play alone.
I even managed to craft some plasma rifles in some city without someone come and steal my parts...
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You don`t need the base if you play alone.
I even managed to craft some plasma rifles in some city without someone come and steal my parts...
There is nothing like having a Abandoned bunker to use when your at low levels, especially if your an EW char as the only thing you need to gather elsewhere is wood.
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Fuck you, no lifers, it's a game.
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You don`t need the base if you play alone.
I even managed to craft some plasma rifles in some city without someone come and steal my parts...
Yes , it is possible. When i was new to this game i even managed to trade my stuff between alts by leaving it in ncr , some shelf then reloging and picking it up , but that is extreme and it should be changed. Dual log gives much utility that enables you to spend some quality time. The thing is if you are alone it is very hard to manage between your alts , this really discourages new players.
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If you can play alone with 2 or more characters, then you'll depend less on other players. Makes game a bit better in some way if you ask me. All the Russian servers allow multi-loging and they have high population. This is not forcing people to play 2, 3 or 4 characters, you can still play on only 1.
Either way I find this to be the problem of the game itself, not the system which is used. Look, if you allow multi-log, those who want to win badly will make lots of pvp characters and use them all in fights, swarm with mults, and people will have mults working on crafting, making gain of items, ammo, armors, weapons, easy. This will encourage people to keep leveling up characters in order to win in large battles with more mults than the enemy.
If you do not allow multi-log, people will use it again, they will cheat and those who are not afraid of cheating will use mults for crafting and in fights.
This cannot disappear, because of having multiple characters gives huge advantage to the game, because in game items, resources are gained faster with multiple characters and fights are won easier with larger group of players. Even if your group get's wiped out but you damage the enemy. When you can jump back on them with an army of secondary mults you will win the battle. Town control, gang battles in this game are based on number of characters not to mention npc mercenaries. Now don't go saying that some might have better skill than others. Of course that people on voice chat and experienced in battles has larger chance of wining. But swarm is a swarm... If devs return the old game mechanics, drugs and other things. A group of people could prevail over others in terms of fighting. As long as they know the secrets which others don't. But once all are equal, only numbers count.
I won't say this is an idea or suggestion. But imo, removing the capitalistic way of crafting and trading, wasting time on this; and instead allowing people to gain items as rewards for something done in the game, or allowing certain players to levelup to higher level than others, also as a certain reward, it will un-balance the game a bit, but will remove the desire for dual loging, when you only need to focus on one character, instead of massing them for purpose of swarm and crafting.
Think about it...
Also I want to add on the PvE side, the game has no Boss or anything similar to it. Theres no Franky to win in a fight, no king rat or some deathclaw king or anything. The only things people can fight against are same old lame boring creatures that appear, and npc caravans and patrols. The final option which most take are other players, gangs and all the rage there is to it :)
Adding an route in the game where you do more PvE than PvP will make this more look like a game. Otherwise it's full PvP and people shouldn't whine about being pked or playing anti-pk. Makes no sense. Well it does, this game makes sense for people living on ingame items, which are greedy people, thieves and craftoholics. The only remaining people playing the game are those. That's what guides them trough the game. Craft, greed, kill & loot. My gauss, my collection of BA's. Me happy. Is a good game. Fuck this...
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It's just a game..
Even i got it now.. all this waiting for nothing..
It's not worth of it people..
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If you can play alone with 2 or more characters, then you'll depend less on other players. Makes game a bit better in some way if you ask me. All the Russian servers allow multi-loging and they have high population. This is not forcing people to play 2, 3 or 4 characters, you can still play on only 1.
Either way I find this to be the problem of the game itself, not the system which is used. Look, if you allow multi-log, those who want to win badly will make lots of pvp characters and use them all in fights, swarm with mults, and people will have mults working on crafting, making gain of items, ammo, armors, weapons, easy. This will encourage people to keep leveling up characters in order to win in large battles with more mults than the enemy.
If you do not allow multi-log, people will use it again, they will cheat and those who are not afraid of cheating will use mults for crafting and in fights.
This cannot disappear, because of having multiple characters gives huge advantage to the game, because in game items, resources are gained faster with multiple characters and fights are won easier with larger group of players. Even if your group get's wiped out but you damage the enemy. When you can jump back on them with an army of secondary mults you will win the battle. Town control, gang battles in this game are based on number of characters not to mention npc mercenaries. Now don't go saying that some might have better skill than others. Of course that people on voice chat and experienced in battles has larger chance of wining. But swarm is a swarm... If devs return the old game mechanics, drugs and other things. A group of people could prevail over others in terms of fighting. As long as they know the secrets which others don't. But once all are equal, only numbers count.
I won't say this is an idea or suggestion. But imo, removing the capitalistic way of crafting and trading, wasting time on this; and instead allowing people to gain items as rewards for something done in the game, or allowing certain players to levelup to higher level than others, also as a certain reward, it will un-balance the game a bit, but will remove the desire for dual loging, when you only need to focus on one character, instead of massing them for purpose of swarm and crafting.
Think about it...
Also I want to add on the PvE side, the game has no Boss or anything similar to it. Theres no Franky to win in a fight, no king rat or some deathclaw king or anything. The only things people can fight against are same old lame boring creatures that appear, and npc caravans and patrols. The final option which most take are other players, gangs and all the rage there is to it :)
Adding an route in the game where you do more PvE than PvP will make this more look like a game. Otherwise it's full PvP and people shouldn't whine about being pked or playing anti-pk. Makes no sense. Well it does, this game makes sense for people living on ingame items, which are greedy people, thieves and craftoholics. The only remaining people playing the game are those. That's what guides them trough the game. Craft, greed, kill & loot. My gauss, my collection of BA's. Me happy. Is a good game. Fuck this...
There is so much truth in this. I hope that some of the staff read this and think in the posibilities.
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It's coming from me who played this for 2 years and now I'm not playing it often. It's not counter strike, it's more like Sims with fat bullies. It's even worse than Yaoi: no climax, no point, no meaning. And 2 minute actions with 2 seconds death.
And if I'd like to play in turn based, we return to the mass cheating part. Turn based is easy and more interesting than real time imo, but most of people don't like that game style.
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Because while GMs cant do any interesting events they at least do not fuck up with standard gameplay. Without duallog the game is such a discomfortable thing.
.... Really? You realise GMs Don't get payed for what they do, they take do it gladly on their own time and duallog is ghey mainly because it can be 1 v 5 when it should be really 1 v 1...
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Disheartening to see so many try and justify cheating. Really.
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Disheartening to see so many try and justify cheating. Really.
It's not matter of black and white. In some cases cheating is closer to civil disobedience rather than serious crime against the society.
Besides cheating also shows that people want to play this game and are enthralled by it so much that they bother to fabricate cheats.
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Yes , it is possible. When i was new to this game i even managed to trade my stuff between alts by leaving it in ncr , some shelf then reloging and picking it up , but that is extreme and it should be changed.
A lot of people are doing this.
The cat and mouse of hiding things and wondering during relog wait time if some scavenger finds it is a regular part of the game, for some.
Also, forgetting stuff or even finding other people's stuff in your favorite hiding place.
It adds flavor. Minigame/metagame hybrid.
Oh well, im off to fill Gordon's Gas Station with Ghoul Snipers.
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Disheartening to see so many try and justify cheating. Really.
You know Gorlak, say somebody wants to add his other characters to a base, he either needs to trust one of the many random possible base rapists with some level of access to his base, or duel log, you either trust people who probably won't even be on when you need them even if they aren't thieves, or you can duel log for a brief moment and save yourself hours of time, in that case, it's more of a player created work around to something the game -should- already have, just because it's a pain in the ass.
What about a guy who wants to build a slave army? he cant transfer slaves to logged off characters, so he needs someone to login to every alt one by one, and actually be selfless in helping him, or he can duel log.. again, wasting one of your friends time to suit your needs, or "cheating", which one is actually worse?
Doing something that effects only you, but requires a nice friends time he could do his own thing with, or do it all by yourself, for yourself, i don't duel log myself, since really i don't have much use for it, other then those two examples, but still, you have a choice, which would you personally pick?
Duel logging and actually using both characters for something at the same time on the other hand, that's a different story, you're actually using two characters at once, not just briefly logging in on both to add a new alt to level with.
Oh, and on a final note, anyone who thinks loners don't need bases is wrong, a base is actually more useful to a loner then a big faction, since the larger the group, the easier it is to get stuff, and most people don't even remember to login to refresh their tents, and they go poof, i've had a few of my tents go poof because i forgot to refresh everyone on time each month, so have my friends, i doubt TTTLA would have trouble getting new stuff from nothing, few mausers, few snipers, one dead unity patrol and then you just go craft some armor after you've got rockets and ammo, maybe a few new guns to make, but that's it, you've got men to gather, men to guard the shit, and men to use the stuff, you've got a mobile army, stockpiling just saves time.
-Ulrek-
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(people yelling they are TTTLA while slaughtering miners is also a frequent thing)
lulz