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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Closed suggestions => Topic started by: Strater on February 10, 2010, 01:27:19 pm
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There is allot of PK in this game. I was thinking why not make their live a litle bit dificult? Right now all the player killers can take any kind of weapon and kill you with it and take the loot. Why not make rocket launcher destroy all the equipment you had? It makes allot more sence if you use a rifle to get some loot insted rocket launcher which could destroy ewrything you had? Also some other weapons like laser, plasma, minigun or burst fired weapon should deal some damage to the equipment that player has instead of just its armor. This way new players will have more chance of ecaping random encounters instead of being bloown up into the sky and looted from all their stuff.
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I personally like the idea of extending this type of thing. Wonder what all the PvPers think of it, hehe
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i agree with it, i would also give broken armors when killed by minigun :>
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bad idea :>
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then they will switch to miniguns, simple as that
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I like the idea of extending Armour Destroying to miniguns (possibly all bursts?) ... hopefully I'm right in thinking Plasma and Explosion deaths currently do this. Denying all loot is perhaps taking it a little too far.
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Grenades on Fast Shot = excellent PKs weapon. 3 AP to throw and 100% knockdown, with 10 AP and some levels in throwing low level char can kill high level.
1) Throw grenade, he will be lying on the ground.
2) Each time you see he is trying to stand - throw one more grenade.
3) Repeat N2
Even if he has this damned armor and imba Life Giver and high level, and you're only novice, but you want to be bomb-suicider, so you have demolisher profession and can craft grenades, it's no problem to kill everything you see, till you throw your last grenade. But don't worry 10 grenades for only 1 metal part and 5 gun powders, so i was unable to spend it faster, than i craft it. Also this is best weapon for killing mobs. Some tactic and 1-2 (sometimes 3-4) grenades will kill everyone on encounter.
Question: So why are you so bored with this PKs? Make a character with throwing/traps/science, 10 PE/IN/AGI, Fast Shot/Skilled(or One Hander), you don't need to play much time to be able to kill everything you see, if you really think that rocketlaunchers and miniguns killing you so hard. "The Frag Grenade" - ultimate universal weapon for mobs and players. Easy to craft, get good exp for craft, gives more exp and satisfaction after craft. Poor blue suiter with this ultimate weapon will teach those damned high levels PKs... well.. i know about range of this weapon, but if you'll fast, you'll get closer. But in unguarded towns this is best noobs' weapon.
So yea, death by explosion = no loot, it's so easy to kill high level at unguarded town and get all his items lol.
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i dont like this idea becouse rockets are to weak compare with biggun bursts, after one week nobody will use rockets
btw. who is responsible for balance in pvp ? im just curious, becouse for present day there is no such thing like balance in pvp, is all about druggy bigguners with avangers and 56hex sniper support
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Very good idea......if destroed body......destroit loot!!!!Its logicaly!)))))
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"I am Heavy Weapons Guy... and this is my weapon.
She weighs 150 kgs and fires two hundred dollar custom tool cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute.
It costs four hundred thousand dollars to fire this weapon ... for twelve seconds."
So yeah bullets aren't very destructive but in great ammounts can shatter not only armor but the equipment. Every burst, explosion etc that kills someone should have a high % chance to break every piece of equipment the victim carries.
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yeah, the only guys who should be allowed to keep the weapons and armour of the victims should be the ones with surgical strikes.
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How about loot gets scattered and damaged instead of falling on the spot where the guy explodes? That would be much better than no loot at all.
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well, the equipment should have a 50-80% chance of turning into junk, but ammo, bottlecaps and the generally unused shit could be spared, however the bottlecaps would only be half of what the character was carrying, maybe allow the player to keep quest items, and 25% of the caps he/she/it was carrying at the time? bleeding briefcase always seems to slip away...
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I like the idea of extending Armour Destroying to miniguns (possibly all bursts?) ... hopefully I'm right in thinking Plasma and Explosion deaths currently do this. Denying all loot is perhaps taking it a little too far.
I understand that destorying all the equipment when killed with a explosive weapon may be to much but me must give some chance to others trying survive in this world. If this idea will became real the amount of Pk will lower. Right now people mostly kill for the equipment only small part of them kill for fun. After all if you want players lose all their equipment when death meets them in the trafel why not make it dificult to optain it when killing somebody? Thats all what i want. If its easy to lose ewrything than why not make it hard to get it? We already spend 10h to make something good and we lose it in 1s.
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Right..
I travel around on my high level char and I barely meet people with any big guns on wasteland. Either those 'new players' are very unlucky to get killed by those big guns or they are making some fatal mistakes (one day I will wirte good guide how to handle yourself everywhere - north/south - in wasteland). Most of big guns ammo is precious because either you need to craft it or buy it and both ways take a lot of time (unless you got army of nolife crafters that spend their free time on earning caps that got no use in this game). Problem with this game is that you don't know which level is your oponnent so I shoot at everyone I see first then I ask questions when they are on ground (dead or not). If there would be some info that player is low level I would most likely let him go and so would quite many 'evil pkers' that you reffer to.
For gangs your idea is pretty much that there is no point in fighting: when you win you don't get any stuff (like nowadays it's not fucked up enough - army of looters that will try to steal all stuff you actually earned by killing enemy), you only waste ammo. Even if you fight for town control you only earn small amount of caps (compared to value of ammo that you shoot in fight and armors/weapons that you lost). There are people that like good PvP but point is that when you are not looting stuf it decrases ammount of equipment in world so if you want to have any chances in other in PvP you either need to be no-lifer so you can craft new armors/weapons or find a no-lifer that will do that for you.
This change isn't really good and I don't really belive it will help new players. People will shoot at you no matter what just because they don't want to lose their stuff (you might be suicide bomber/grenadier even without armor). Thing this game needs is info on which level is certain player - it could be something like: "He seems to be self-confident and dangerous." or "He looks scared and seem to not be able to handle himself."
To sum up: This idea will not work too good on long run. Good idea that was implemented recently was that you can loot people when they are uncocious (thought as I said earlier: without weapons that can get someone on ground easily it's still hard to get one uncocious and you can killing him even if you didn't intented that).
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Problem with this game is that you don't know which level is
Awareness does that pretty easily. Then you look at their gear and connect the dots. You can usually get a rough idea.
I like the idea that some gear is destroyed on PK. I don't want to deny all loot, but I think full loot for every kill might also be too much. Maybe gear is destroyed with all guns, proportional to how far past -20hp the character was killed. If he was pushed down to -150hp regardless of what gun the attacker used, there's not going to be much left.
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@up
Do you really belive that people will be good boys and take this kinda useless perk when they can take something that is actually usefull during whole game (toughness for example) just to check if one is new player or not? It should be implemented for everyone (not awarness but that info I suggested in my earlier post).
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Do you really belive that people will be good boys and take this kinda useless perk when they can take something that is actually usefull during whole game (toughness for example) just to check if one is new player or not? It should be implemented for everyone (not awarness but that info I suggested in my earlier post).
Awareness useless? u shitin me? i got that on my chars and its great. For me fighting and slavery without it is a pain in ass. i dissagre with idea of "implemented for everyone" u want it u take it that all
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This is what i think
There should be some sort of option until a certain level that enables or disables PVP for example
>PK'er targets player
<Text pops up for player asking "Enable PVP?"
>The player chooses "No"
<Combat is avoided
and then when the player gets to a level when he can handle himself well against other players, that option vanishes.
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what level?
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well for lvl 1-3 not more ;) but its kinda not fonline thing imo u know "wasteland is cruel" and "only strong will survive" ;D
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well, i personally would suggest lvl 5 to be the final "avoidance" level, but then again it can be abused.
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@RJ
lol, yeah after the world ends people craft and gather ammo only to gain something as a reward. wasteland is harsh - the main use for ammo and guns should be surviving, gaining big amounts of loot ought to be luxury not and everyday thing.
Also i'm kind of against the -hp idea, because let's say a sniper will shoot you in the head *puff* suddenly your rubber shoes, tragic cards and knife are destroyed because he critically hit you for 345. Yet damage should be used as a modifier
low damage yet killing burst - 30% for destruction
high dmg burst - 60-80%
explosion (rocket, nade, explosives) - 60-80%
plasma weapons - 50 %
plasma when melting you - 100%
electrical weapons (i dont remember the names, those which shock you) - 70% for destroying electronic stuff, works like EMP
flamer - leather, paper, wood - 80 %
all ammo, nades, bombs, rockets, bottles should explode with 100% rate after hit by fire or explosion
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Hum, guys, you know, when someone explode with a rocket his armor is lost, same if the plasma kill him, and pretty often when I kill with minigun, the armor or the weapon of my ennemy is broken, sometimes beyond repair.
Very bad idea for me to disable loot.
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The reason I suggested it be damage based is that otherwise I can see the people who kill for gear just switching out to sniper builds.
@RJ
wasteland is harsh - the main use for ammo and guns should be surviving, gaining big amounts of loot ought to be luxury not and everyday thing.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. And far as I'm concerned, losing all your stuff when you die is hardcore. But your killer getting absolutely everything you were carrying isn't. If anything, it's easy. Just shoot a guy in the head when he's a lot weaker than you and you get a whole bunch of stuff you barely had to work for. EASYMODE.
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How about loot gets scattered and damaged instead of falling on the spot where the guy explodes? That would be much better than no loot at all.
I like that idea best but i think the items should get damaged by 60-80% along with the scatter idea
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@Nyan
Survival says thief-bomber :) You play this game your way and I want to play this game my way.
Until there will be some means of surviving done by devs I don't want any of those suggested changes happening. It will result in less PvP between gangs which is intention of devs (well we got town control, right?) because not everyone will want to spend their time on crafting new armors that will get destroyed in a first firefight AND you won't be able to get them back later (if you died loot goes to enemy and you can still killl him later and get back your armor and what you suggest is that loot is lost so it doesn't go circle between players).
@naskiel32
Of course it got it's advantages (displays weapon name, max/current health and if gun is loaded) but it seems you didn't read carefuly enough what I wrote (look at part down). Still I belive that awarness got limited use even for slaver.
I didn't say to implement awarness for everyone only to implement system that when you look at someone it displays additional info than "He looks unhurt". It would be something that when you look at someone additional info appear in messagebox like for higher levels: "He looks unhurt. You feel aura of confidence from him." and for lower levels: "He looks unhurt. He seems to be scarred and a bit confused." <- now improve this and we will have a bit less 21 lvl PKers killing newbies and more low-medium levels PKing ;)
People. Understand that this doesn't work like awarness and still awarness give you some benefits, so what's the deal?
@a bit off-topic
And Solar is interested in this thread because he saw a great way to 'improve' economy - produce equipment - fight - destroy/lose completly equipment.
Don't forget that players are not robots and they can't spend whole day to produce equipment or try to buy it. You will limit number of equipment in game like this but you will also limit joy of game.
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and what next guys ?
people will carry explosives so when they are in "shit" situation they can just kill themselves denying all loot ? (or even set the bomb so it explodes after they are dead so no res timer)
rockets , granades plasma destroy gear ok ... so snipers are not good for killing lowbies ? nice eye crit from laser rifle is one hit dead on any low lv
and as for bursts - miniguns ...well there are LSW that arnt that much weaker but dont demolish body that often - you wanna them to destroy loot too ? so then SG should do that too ...
chances ? deterioration ? say ...do you think it will help the lowbies at all ? people will thake their chances to get whatever loot they can and a repairman and all deterioration is worthless ....
All in the end it will do is force people to craft more nothing else
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@RJ
crafting doesn't take all day, it's like 5-10 minutes to gather items + craft for a rookie character
also it's not a way of playing, you guys are trying to make this game a pvp arena so the only way to play is to join a gang, get eq and fight each other. Every idea like farming, housing, cooking, eating, having animals etc is considered stupid 'dont make sims out of my fonline derp' im tired of this seriously. Did you know that it's a rpg game guys? It's not your beloved counter strike you were raised on. Some time ago I met a tribal in VC, he was traveling with a spear only and some herbs and I bet he didn't stand a chance to any of you yet he was superior because he really acted. And this is how this game should look like, it's not a real life simulator but don't change this game into generic shooter. You won't get any loot? I'm glad to hear that. You will have to craft and gain ammo instead of just trading it for items you looted? That's even better, maybe this will force some player-player interaction other than killing each other. It's a wasteland, weapons are rare - so is ammo and armors. After the end of the world people wouldn't fight each other for fun and you are doing this guys, so stop whining, I'm sorry the only character you can roll is a fighting one and the only thing you can say in towns is 'lol', 'sell', 'buy' or 'kurwa' for those uber polacks. Maybe it's not a game for you hmm?
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And Solar is interested in this thread because he saw a great way to 'improve' economy - produce equipment - fight - destroy/lose completly equipment.
Don't forget that players are not robots and they can't spend whole day to produce equipment or try to buy it. You will limit number of equipment in game like this but you will also limit joy of game.
Well, thats not strictly true. The game does need more resource drains, but my interest in this was mostly in giving some flavour to the high damage types of weapons (explosive, plasma, bursting) so that it could remain powerful, but give it some other disadvantage - so we don't end up with loads of weapons with roughly the same stats. (Though as I say, loot denial is probably taking it too far)
Creating balance is easy, creating balance with variation is tougher.
also it's not a way of playing, you guys are trying to make this game a pvp arena so the only way to play is to join a gang, get eq and fight each other.
This is another part of the problem, people play for very different reasons and most changes end up having to be somewhere in the middle of the two extremes of PvPers vs RPers. Hopefully there should be more for the more RP minded fellows in the not too distant future.
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@Nyan
Thanks for judging me. I never played CS and I belive it's shit not game.
If you want proper RP play Fallout Pen and Paper. You seems to be blind for the truth. For now in this game there are only few very limited means for RP which combined with system that you can have unlimited number of alts and characters with shops that have nothing to offer and no interesting quests. This all limits this game to PvP. RPing now is hardcore and I know about it very well.
Let's take a look at Hub RP project. There was organisation called FarGo traders that wanted to protect players when traveling or crafting. How it ended? Nobody was interested in protection because fe: you can craft only 200 MFC at once. Thought they were trying hard to get customers it failed. This could be one of many examples how RP looks now.
At this point in game any changes that limit PvP without giving means for RP are plain stupid.
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RP has nothing to do with game mechanics, you just have to act thats it. No npcs needed, no skills or items are involved. You just have to think who your character is and be him ingame. And yeah - if you can't fight them join them. Thats why it looks as it looks. Devs are more likely to improve fighting and stuff connected to it because it's all you guys care about. In this way this game will not evolve. New players see this and have two options - join or leave. And so on and so on, vicious circle.
Let's just don't get mad on each other and start from the beginning. We all have to take a step back and look on the whole game from different perspective. We can't care only about our current characters, I know it's hard but just imagine the wipe is coming tomorrow and you lose everything anyway. Now take a deep breath and what do you see? Big guns, crit snipers, taxi and crafters. The only job nowadays that can involve some roleplaying is slavery in my opinion. Every other job is connected with gang drama and this is preposterous. What we need is to cut this hydras heads all at once, not help them grow. By making brainless pking less profitable people may start thinking about alternatives. Maybe some cool events not just minefield and getting new armors. Every single other class has been nerfed because those mentioned before were crying that they can't play as they did before. You can't extol them just because they are the majority.
Now back to the subject. Maybe for you getting your stuff back is and option, because you have combat build. Imagine a doc traveling with some kidos through the wasteland, 2 minigun bursts, they're gone, no chance to get items back. ~deleteself herpaderp. That is just wrong. Also, blowing yourself up when you see you stand no chance is a brilliant idea. Imagine some kind of movie when protagonist is surrounded by some creatures and he knows he won't win, he just wants to send as many as he can to hell with his eq and maybe some data who knows. That's just pure awesome. I won't use it? Neither will you maggot.
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@up
So idea is to replace so called 'brainless PKing' with PKing for a reason.
And reason would be: I need to kill other guy before he kills me, I might not get any stuff from him but at least I will not lose mine.
Now back to the subject. Maybe for you getting your stuff back is and option, because you have combat build. Imagine a doc traveling with some kidos through the wasteland, 2 minigun bursts, they're gone, no chance to get items back. ~deleteself herpaderp. That is just wrong. Also, blowing yourself up when you see you stand no chance is a brilliant idea. Imagine some kind of movie when protagonist is surrounded by some creatures and he knows he won't win, he just wants to send as many as he can to hell with his eq and maybe some data who knows. That's just pure awesome. I won't use it? Neither will you maggot.
For bloody sake.
It's because of game that allows you to have high combat skill, doctor and first aid skill (this is how typical PvP build looks). If you wouldn't be able to treat yourself easily without dedicated doctor then people would stop shooting them and medics/combat medics would be usefull. <- and this is how you should start thinking
As I said earlier what you suggest is limiting PvP between gangs idea and I pointed how.
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and i have other suggestion wich is so small that new topic is not needed i think. So if you get crippled you lose -1 charisma how about that ? :> (you get it back once healed of course)
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If you wouldn't be able to treat yourself easily without dedicated doctor then people would stop shooting them and medics/combat medics would be usefull. <- and this is how you should start thinking
This is a good point, I Don't think the current FA system works well in any aspect really. :-\
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that does not make much sense "your leg is broken so you're a dick". back to the original discussion
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that does not make much sense "your leg is broken so you're a dick". back to the original discussion
and if you do not have eye ? our your head is fucked? i dont think you are as attractive as before, even broken leg in wich you could see bones from outside shouldnt make you look better :>
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This is a good point, I Don't think the current FA system works well in any aspect really. :-\
you cant realy say that soldiers shouldnt be able to patch themselves up
also nerfing doctor and forcing combat doctors would be like shooting your own ankle as planty of combat chars already have full doctor , some stat change more int and they would be as good as any dedicated doctor