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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 01:22:20 am

Title: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 01:22:20 am
Fonline is not, and for legal reasons cannot be, a pay-to-play MMO.

While good in many ways it means that there is no way to restrict number of accounts per player. This leads to some serious problems:

1) Endless specialized alts for every purpose.

2) No meaningful way to sanction or remove problem players. Griefers, exploiters, trolls, and outright cheaters can act with impunity to spoil the game for legitimate players because even if they get caught and banned they can just make another account and be back in business.

#2 in particular drives people away and seriously jeopardizes the long-term future of the game.


My proposed solution is to require a modest, say 10USD, deposit to register an account. This could be sent by paypal and would be refundable, with the resultant closure of the account, at any time while the account remains in good standing. If an account is suspended then the deposit will be frozen for the duration of the suspension. A banned account has it's deposit forfeited as a donation to the keep-the server-running fund. The TOS agreement signed as part of creating an account would authorize such measures.

This would restrict the number of alts running around and drastically improve the play quality of the game without violating the not-for-profit nature that enables it to exist. No money is being made, even the forfeiture for being banned is donation, agreed upon in advance. 
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Slaver Snipe on July 18, 2011, 01:37:26 am
This seems like a silly way to keep people from playing tbh, many who play are young and might not be able to afford it to hold 10$ in escrow, or the fact that not everyone uses pay pal.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Senocular on July 18, 2011, 04:04:59 am
Wow, you seem to be new here, let me show you around the place...


Alts aren't an issue just because people can have them but because they HAVE TO have them.
-need more than one tent? get an alt
-need ammo supply? get crafter alt
-want to do some pvp? get ape alt
-want to get from NCR to New Reno in less than an hour? get outdoorsman alt
-want have more proffessions? can't do, get another alt

Alt-per-player ratio will lower not if you restrict one account per persona, but if you encourage people to play with one character. With the current number of players, that is - roughly 200 during a day, with your dumb idea implented will lower to maybe 10, if we are lucky. Not to mention how easy your concept is abusable. You know WoW? Yes, it is p2p game, yet it doesn't stop anyone from multiboxing:

(http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/photos/uncategorized/2008/10/19/wow_gamer_setup.jpg)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 11:06:30 am
Actually I've been around quite a while, I just don't post much.

You do not HAVE TO have alt's, they are useful for all the reasons you mentioned but not NECESSARY, It's just that currently there's no reason NOT to have them so everyone DOES.

I'm all for encouraging people to play with one character but as long as alts continue to be such an easy way to specialize in EVERY possible way simultaneously who will?

While it's true that people could still get multiple accounts at there would a break on how prevalent they would be. As for multiboxing, well a $10 forfeiture every time you get caught should cut down on that some too, or at least pay for the server.

Your claim that a small deposit would drastically lower the player base seems unlikely as well; $10 is hardly a prohibitively vast sum, just enough to make you think twice before throwing it away. It's people being raging a$$holes in the game without consequence that makes most people quit.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Tomowolf on July 18, 2011, 11:38:41 am
OH please don't tell me we will have a paid game which isnt even completed.
and its like "TIS TEHARD AGIN" about alts and whining.
Its not even good suggestion, and stop complaining about game - If you don't like somewhere are SDK files , go make your own server with this system, and we will see how much people will play there :>.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Senocular on July 18, 2011, 01:05:17 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 11:06:30 am
You do not HAVE TO have alt's, they are useful for all the reasons you mentioned but not NECESSARY, It's just that currently there's no reason NOT to have them so everyone DOES.
Of course no one is forcing anyone, but if you want to do more than just mining iron ore you need alts.

Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 11:06:30 am
I'm all for encouraging people to play with one character but as long as alts continue to be such an easy way to specialize in EVERY possible way simultaneously who will?
Everyone would. People would love to play with one character because it's less frustrating, you don't have to bother with login cooldowns and shit. The point is playing one character only is pain in the ass.

Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 11:06:30 am
Your claim that a small deposit would drastically lower the player base seems unlikely as well; $10 is hardly a prohibitively vast sum, just enough to make you think twice before throwing it away. It's people being raging a$$holes in the game without consequence that makes most people quit.
You really expect people to pay 10$ for JUST ONE character? You expect anyone pay for simulator of cooldowns? :D Not to mention people who can't use paypal/don't have credit cards and shit.

But luckily devs can't charge any fee for the game even if they wanted to so stop trying.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Floodnik on July 18, 2011, 01:21:59 pm
This suggestion... Sorry for posting the same picture over and over, but I just can't find anything more appropiate.
(http://krokmania.com/tmp/wpid-picard-facepalm.jpg)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Wichura on July 18, 2011, 02:33:54 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 11:06:30 am
You do not HAVE TO have alt's, they are useful for all the reasons you mentioned but not NECESSARY, It's just that currently there's no reason NOT to have them so everyone DOES.
I'm sorry, but you are wrong, sir. Well, yeah, you can play with one character only, I was playing this way for a long time. But if you want to have more than 4 professions (or two 3rd level professions), if you want to buy more than one base or have more than one tent, if you want to fight with other PvP apes using your own ape - you HAVE to have alts, unfortunately. Profession requirements are insane, playerbase (unless you already have bunch of trusted people around) is full of trolls, griefers, assholios and other scum, which you cannot trust at all - so sorry, but no interaction other than *pew pew* can be done. That's sad.


And about these ten bucks for account - typical Yankee, all issues wants to solve with cash.

-1 to this suggestion.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: OskaRus on July 18, 2011, 03:54:13 pm
- Feature like working auction or market. Would eliminate need for every crafter alt for single person cause you cant trust anyone.
- Allowing char to make many tents or introduce parking lots would eliminate about 90percent of alts.
- Allowing faction to have many bases would eliminate lots of alts with many other problems included.

everithing suggested zillion times and neglected.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Haraldx on July 18, 2011, 10:59:35 pm
You want to make a game that has copy right issues, is still in beta a paid game? Sorry, but beta testing has it's purposes.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 19, 2011, 07:33:45 pm
Quote from: Tomowolf on July 18, 2011, 11:38:41 am
OH please don't tell me we will have a paid game which isnt even completed.
Quote from: Senocular on July 18, 2011, 01:05:17 pm

But luckily devs can't charge any fee for the game even if they wanted to so stop trying.
Quote from: Wichura on July 18, 2011, 02:33:54 pm

And about these ten bucks for account - typical Yankee, all issues wants to solve with cash.


Quote from: Haraldx on July 18, 2011, 10:59:35 pm
You want to make a game that has copy right issues, is still in beta a paid game? Sorry, but beta testing has it's purposes.

As I said in the OP this would NOT be a fee, but a deposit. NO money actually changes ownership unless someone gets banned and that would be a pre-agreed donation.

As far as 'solving everything with money' I don't like it either but when it's impossible to verify weather the same jerk that was just banned is the one applying for a new account then how, other than requiring some sort of collateral for their good behavior,  do you make the griefers, trolls, etc either cut the crap or gtfo?

Quote from: OskaRus on July 18, 2011, 03:54:13 pm
- Feature like working auction or market. Would eliminate need for every crafter alt for single person cause you cant trust anyone.
- Allowing char to make many tents or introduce parking lots would eliminate about 90percent of alts.
- Allowing faction to have many bases would eliminate lots of alts with many other problems included.

everithing suggested zillion times and neglected.

I like all of these ideas but as you noted there not happening.

Quote from: Senocular on July 18, 2011, 01:05:17 pm

 JUST ONE character?

I wouldn't mind every account having 3-5 slots or something, the point is that if you get banned with 1 it applies to the whole account.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: jan0s1k on July 19, 2011, 07:42:16 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 01:22:20 am
My proposed solution is to require a modest, say 10USD, deposit to register an account.

28 PLN for playing on 2238? Jeez...

Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 18, 2011, 01:22:20 am
This could be sent by paypal and would be refundable, with the resultant closure of the account, at any time while the account remains in good standing.

Not everyone has a paypal account.

This game cannot be paid in ANY way due of Fallout license, you can just donate, if you want do it instead of making topic to force people to pay for game  ::)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Haterade on July 19, 2011, 08:00:10 pm
to be honest, more than half of players wouldnt be playing anymore...
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Haraldx on July 19, 2011, 08:34:53 pm
This is a beta test, and no beta test has paid stuff (unless it's dumb DICE with it's asshole Battlefunds shit, or MineCraft, but MineCraft atleast is more than 80% working). Open beta means it is open to everyone. If we implent your idea, this would be more like a paid beta test, people would be leaving, developers have almost no testers to test the game, the players get bored because nobody plays, they leave, FOnline dies. What's there not to understand?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 22, 2011, 08:17:59 am
Quote from: jan0s1k on July 19, 2011, 07:42:16 pm

This game cannot be paid in ANY way due of Fallout license, you can just donate, if you want do it instead of making topic to force people to pay for game  ::)

If it isn't a license violation to donate towards server upkeep now then how would it be one to commit to a donation at a future time if you get banned?. Also eliciting deposit forfeitures isn't the point, reigning in the griefers is. Ideally no such forfeitures would ever occur because people would stop offending.

Quote from: Haterade on July 19, 2011, 08:00:10 pm
to be honest, more than half of players wouldnt be playing anymore...

Are you assuming that more than half of the players would be unable to make the deposit? Or that more than half Are griefers?

Quote from: Haraldx on July 19, 2011, 08:34:53 pm
If we implent your idea, this would be more like a paid beta test, people would be leaving, developers have almost no testers to test the game, the players get bored because nobody plays, they leave, FOnline dies. What's there not to understand?


People are being driven away from the game all the time by the actions which this is all about preventing. If gratuitous troublemakers could be held responsible for their misbehavior then they themselves might leave but the player base overall should expand.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: jan0s1k on July 22, 2011, 12:41:21 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 22, 2011, 08:17:59 am
If it isn't a license violation to donate towards server upkeep now then how would it be one to commit to a donation at a future time if you get banned?. Also eliciting deposit forfeitures isn't the point, reigning in the griefers is. Ideally no such forfeitures would ever occur because people would stop offending.

Yes, because donations are given if players just wants to donate, you can't punish him to pay. This what you want to do is called Pay2Play. Wonder why this topic isn't closed yet  ::)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Haraldx on July 22, 2011, 06:32:04 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 22, 2011, 08:17:59 am
Are you assuming that more than half of the players would be unable to make the deposit? Or that more than half Are griefers?
I do believe both.

Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 22, 2011, 08:17:59 am
People are being driven away from the game all the time by the actions which this is all about preventing. If gratuitous troublemakers could be held responsible for their misbehavior then they themselves might leave but the player base overall should expand.
It doesn't change the fact nobody would be playing, players get bored, leave and the project dies. New players are all like "WTF WASTELUNDZ IZ TOO HARSHZXS LUL, ADD SAFESPOTS I RAGEQUIT", thus new players take their money back and leave, project dies forever.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: OskaRus on July 22, 2011, 11:46:00 pm
I think that we have all agreed that this whole idea is worth vyližprdel.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: T-888 on July 23, 2011, 12:37:07 am
I curse this suggestion may it never be fulfilled , damn you how can you suggest something like this ? ( smites Lonelylurker with a big fat cross , may the evil be purged )

Come on if you want to kill the game just think of something more interesting okey ?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: falloutdude on July 23, 2011, 04:57:55 am
it people are gonna troll there gonna troll. if you dont like this dont play this game and make dumbass suggestions. no one is gonna pay to play or how you say it "hold there money"  because this game does not update fast enough. and like said most people are young and dont have credit cards to give them paymet to hold and might not even have money.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Senrain on July 23, 2011, 08:22:45 am
Because of the harsh nature of the game, it takes real diligence to keep it up and it can be hard not to quit at times when you're just starting out.

If people have to pay to play this game then the population will be essentially cut in half due to some people being unable to play.

Now you have to pay 10 bucks for a game with a shrinking population that is hard as balls when you're starting out.

Bluntly speaking the game isn't worth paying 10 bucks for imho, and I have no doubt that it would die if the creators made people pay.

We're doing the creators a service by spending our time playing their game, especially one as unforgiving as this, perhaps the game will be a little easier on the newbs as time goes on but as for now it's still piss hard and I doubt that will change any time soon.

Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Jotisz on July 23, 2011, 11:04:29 am
To make this game pay2play there should be no content that isn't owned by the devs. Now the game uses elements from the Fallout universe it wouldn't be possible to make it a payed game as long the content remains what is it...
I don't see why this thread is still here it should have been moved to junk already
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Floodnik on July 23, 2011, 02:49:04 pm
Quote from: Jotisz on July 23, 2011, 11:04:29 am
To make this game pay2play there should be no content that isn't owned by the devs. Now the game uses elements from the Fallout universe it wouldn't be possible to make it a payed game as long the content remains what is it...
Read the first post carefully. It's not really gonna be pay2play, it's different.
Nevertheless this suggestion is very, very bad, this is never going to happen because it would be a suicide.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 26, 2011, 04:26:53 am
Quote from: Haraldx on July 22, 2011, 06:32:04 pm
New players are all like "WTF WASTELUNDZ IZ TOO HARSHZXS LUL, ADD SAFESPOTS I RAGEQUIT", thus new players take their money back and leave, project dies forever.
Quote from: Senrain on July 23, 2011, 08:22:45 am
Because of the harsh nature of the game, it takes real diligence to keep it up and it can be hard not to quit at times when you're just starting out.

New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.

Quote from: Floodnik on July 23, 2011, 02:49:04 pm
Read the first post carefully. It's not really gonna be pay2play, it's different.
Thank you for reading the whole suggestion carefully before criticizing, and appreciating the subtle but important difference.

Quote from: Floodnik on July 23, 2011, 02:49:04 pm
Nevertheless this suggestion is very, very bad, this is never going to happen because it would be a suicide.
Then what solution would you suggest?

The only valid argument against this so far presented is that too many people lack access to paypal or can't afford to place $10 on hold. The $10 amount was just an example, really any amount would do as long as it's enough to not be willing to forfeit for griefing lolz. The lack of access argument is a potential problem but right now a purely speculative one, none of us here really knows if it's true or not and going around with "yes it isn't"/"no it isn't" here without hard information wont solve anything.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Michaelh139 on July 26, 2011, 05:22:34 am
This will not work.  For many reasons already explained.  Another one being that the economy for many places including the United States is in the shitter so many people (As said young people) would not be able to afford to "donate" to play.

Besides, the game is already well donated whenever it is need, and the devs have already realized the problem with alting and are working on a solution to make alts totally unnecessary, but still allowed if you say, you wanted a new rp character, or some other meaningful reason to make another character.  The only last problem would be multi-logging.

That's my gist of it anyways.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 05:23:32 am
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 26, 2011, 04:26:53 am
New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.
"I was killing scorpions and gathering thier tails but guy in metal armor appeared in encounter and killed me! I ragequit! Ban him!"
"I was trading with Sha Enin but someone exploded me! I ragequit! Ban him!"
"I was standing and doing nothing and a rocket, launched from a tent, exploded me! I ragequit! Ban them all!"

I don't get it. You want to ban all "griefers"? Why don't make "griefing" impossible? Why don't you suggest non-PvP location towns.
It's easier to prevent "griefing" than punish players for it.
What exactly you want to stop? Bursting in towns? You don't understand poor suicidal bursters, they suffer alot:
1) They may critically miss, because thier smg is usually almost broken and if they critically miss, thier day is a fail, it's really a shame when you critically miss in NCR with smg when going to kill someone.
2) Each bullet is 95% to hit, you may hit only with 1 bullet! Or 2! Or 3! Or 4! It's not enough to kill. It's really really really really frustrating when you don't kill your victim.
3) You may lag! Your victim may walk away from you, but you won't see it and will burst him from >1 hex, if he's not low HP blue, you'll be sad.

Troll alts sometimes really poor, because you're too lazy to give him items from main/ask your friend(s) to bring you some and you need to wait till someone die in NCR, to loot thier items, sell them to Sha Enin and buy a grease gun and 15 .45 ammo to satisfy yourself.
Blocking traders, killing traders, luring traders to jail/brahmin pens/BoS bunkers sometimes is really hard, because a GM watching you and when you're done he appears and looks like troll for me, because he's ruining all those efforts to have fun.
I made 2 alts, bought alot mercs, pushed Buster in a corner of his tent, made mercs surround him and stand in his position,
that's really hard, because I needed to move only 1 merc at a time and hide from other mercs, so they won't see me and move when it wasn't required. I filled Buster's tent with damned mercs so noone would trade with him, I made 3rd alt to completely fill his tent so noone would enter it, but... when I came with 3rd alt and 4 his mercs, an evil trollish GM made all mercs disappear! I spent really much caps on mercs, really really much time to put those stupid AI idiots into thier positions to block Buster and prevent him from moving, but GM... just made them disappear! Also when I made Buster permabusy with my 3rd alt by pushing merc on his position and giving him order to move to Buster's current position at the same time and Buster wanted to return to his position = that's damn really hard, I went to sleep knowing that noone will trade to Buster until GM come, but... all mercs disappeared again! Or pushing Buster and guard with Floodnik, make them switch thier positions so they will try to return back but wouldn't because hex isn't empty -> permabusy both and can't be pushed, we did it! And you know what? Some GM made Buster unpushable after that! Now all you can do to Buster is to simply burst him! Sha Enin is real trolling from GM's side, you can't kill him, you can't push him, you can't lure him, he's just standing on one hex, surrounded by 6 hex blockers with infinite HP, you really can't do anything against him, simply nothing, even barter+speech non-stop talking alt won't help, because they can just push you and other player will start talking to Sha Enin instantly, you can't stop people from trading with him and it's really annoying. I even know how to switch positions of Sha Enin and Dusty! That would be really fun! But it's impossible because of Sha Enin's troll immunity granted by 6 hex-blockers.


Also there're no griefers, no trolls, everyone doing everything for a reason!
I was roleplaying BoS officer and wanted to lock all traders in BoS bunker to protect them from evil murderers with smgs! Also it would encourage NPC factions, BoS members had access to bunker! But GMs are killing my roleplay!
I was roleplaying NCR citizen by walking from one part of NCR to other while trader(s) were following me and noone could talk to them, but evil GMs abused thier powers and made me lie with 0 AP!
I was accidentally shooting my mercs, no, I was training on my mercs with different weapons with really low skill, I was counting real % to hit, because I didn't believed in 5%, but other players constantly accidentally were standing between me and my training target and I had "Oops!" hits! And it's not my fault! But evil GM sent me to Glow and then to jail!
I had low reputation and was wearing metal armor! A friend with high reputation started shoot me (we were testing my armor protection, really) and alot people joined him and died by guards! It wasn't my fault! But evil GM sent me to Glow!
I made tones of alts, gathered many flares, thrown them into Sha Enin just to make other players see him better (yes, so they know where trader is), he was glowing even at day! But evil GMs removed flares!
And if player says: "O no, he killed me =_= I ragequit." Then let him ragequit. Because if not "griefer" will kill him, he will ragequit when a scorpion will kill him or he'll spawn in 1 hex from NCR army and they will burst him, etc. I don't understand when you're leaving game only because someone made you sad, why not make him sad in return instead? And his friends, and friends of friends and his dog. Make them all sad and be happy! Just "grief" him everytime you see him and it'll be ok, make it as your goal.


So, now about your suggestion:
You want:
A player doing bad things - he's banned, his money goes to server.
A player not doing bad things - he's playing, his money sitting in deposit.
Easier solution:
Make players impossible to do bad things, so you don't need to wait till they do it to ban them...
So suggest something else.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:34:30 am
Quote from: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 05:23:32 am

This is why we can't have nice things. :)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 05:45:07 am
Quote from: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:34:30 am
This is why we can't have nice things. :)
And what do you mean by "nice things"?
Actually I'm trying to make NCR somehow interesting, idolized thing made it guarded arena (if you're not one of those idolized who just shoot everyone on sight), trolling traders is really fun, just imagine it, a player comes to trade, comes to Sha Enin, but Sha Enin is missing, he runs to Buster, there're 10 mercs in his tent making it impossible to reach him, he want to trade with iguana seller, but he's running around and chasing some guy! That's fun! That's an action in town! Also some lucky player then finding Sha Enin in doctor's toilet blocked my slave, it's some kind of "hide and seek" mini-game in NCR! He wants to put caps to bank, but banker is in jail surrounded by brahmins! That's again fun!

And now really, what you wanted to say by "we can't have nice things"?
Imagine, noone killing/blocking traders, noone exploding people with dynamite, noone bursting in guarded towns, noone blocking or doing other stuff. What would change in good side?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Reginmund on July 26, 2011, 05:50:04 am
Quote from: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:34:30 am
This is why we can't have nice things. :)

got to hand it to ravenousrat though, you can just see the effort into testing the game instead of the run of the mill people "playing" yelling, rarrr griefer! ban him!

Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 26, 2011, 04:26:53 am
New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.

Apart from the obvious suicide bombing or bursting there are other ways to grief new players. The question then remains is where do you draw the line that the "playtest deposit" is forfeited?

I could act all friendly to a new player maybe take them hunting in a few encounters before doing a 180 and administering 10doses of good ol 10mm. I might then relog to different character and do same thing because how will they know im the same person?

What about stealing? do you consider that griefing or where do you draw the line?

Quote from: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 05:45:07 am
Imagine, noone killing/blocking traders, noone exploding people with dynamite, noone bursting in guarded towns, noone blocking or doing other stuff. What would change in good side?

They only get harassed by thieves now?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:59:09 am
There is no problem if people just play the game and communicate with each other. There is no problem with people testing out their boundaries in the game, it's a betatest after all and stepping above the line is appreciated if not needed. The problem arises when people dedicate their entire existence in the game to just ruin other peoples fun or make the lifes unnecessarily harder. There was a time when I found your Sha Enin obsession a bit funny, now it really seems that you should seek a doctor about that issue. You can come up with any of this "but I am just testing!11" bullshit all day long, it doesn't change the fact that you're nothing but a pathetic troll. Atleast you've good company there, a big part of the playerbase consists of exactly this playertype, not interested at all in the fallout universe, roleplaying or atleast manners/etiquette. And I am not even talking about the PvP players, there is often foul language involved but atleast the better ones seek for challenges and equal measurement amongst each other and have better things to do than to troll all day. That's what you do - you do nothing but trolling.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 06:02:02 am
Quote from: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:59:09 am
That's what you do - you do nothing but trolling.
There's nothing more left to do.
Say me what else I can do to have fun, may be I'm blind.

Edit:
About Sha Enin, he's 1st trader whom player visit when entering NCR, if he is being trolled, I would see thier (players) reaction, I'll be usually happy because of this reaction, that's why Sha Enin, not Buster, not Iguana, not Mira, not Dusty, not traders in Hub, JT, Adytum or any other town.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Surf on July 26, 2011, 06:04:09 am
I'm not here to "bring you fun". Maybe shutting down the PC and sometimes go out to the fresh air would help, if you're so bored that you have to troll in some random videogame all day long?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on July 26, 2011, 06:16:21 am
Quote from: Surf on July 26, 2011, 06:04:09 am
I'm not here to "bring you fun". Maybe shutting down the PC and sometimes go out to the fresh air would help, if you're so bored that you have to troll in some random videogame all day long?
I'm not trolling in other games, if there's exist anything to do. That's why I'm not playing FOnline much now, simply trolling is the only thing left in FOnline, it's MMO, it's based on players relations, what could I do? It's fun to see players post on forum "Ban him! He's shooting players with "oops"! He's an exploiter!" or "Sha Enin is dead 24/7! Ban him!" or "Now all traders are dead after I posted last topic! Ban him!", it brings me fun, when players are reacting like that. Also it gives you all possible ways to prevent future "griefing", as it's beta-test, you can find a way to prevent having fun trolling in the future game version so everyone will be "oh wow, alive trader, so what?" "look, noone shoots me in guarded town, cool" happy!
And again, you didn't say anything about "nice things" yet. The only thing that will change if all will stop "griefing" is...
Quote from: Reginmund on July 26, 2011, 05:50:04 am
They only get harassed by thieves now?
And...? Ummm...? Ehh..? FOnline will become very very very nice cool super interesting game, where everyone will be happy?
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Sarakin on July 26, 2011, 10:31:23 am
Quote from: Surf on July 26, 2011, 05:59:09 am
There is no problem if people just play the game and communicate with each other. There is no problem with people testing out their boundaries in the game, it's a betatest after all and stepping above the line is appreciated if not needed. The problem arises when people dedicate their entire existence in the game to just ruin other peoples fun or make the lifes unnecessarily harder. There was a time when I found your Sha Enin obsession a bit funny, now it really seems that you should seek a doctor about that issue. You can come up with any of this "but I am just testing!11" bullshit all day long, it doesn't change the fact that you're nothing but a pathetic troll. Atleast you've good company there, a big part of the playerbase consists of exactly this playertype, not interested at all in the fallout universe, roleplaying or atleast manners/etiquette. And I am not even talking about the PvP players, there is often foul language involved but atleast the better ones seek for challenges and equal measurement amongst each other and have better things to do than to troll all day. That's what you do - you do nothing but trolling.
Totally agree.
Sure, there are far worse trolls, but come on, you can do better.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Perteks on July 26, 2011, 02:22:01 pm
Trolling people its part of this game, and you cant say its not Surf. Everybody try to troll somebody one day, its like key in trunk (now if somebody say no i didnt try you should delete his post ;) ) Even Nexxos trolled me D: (respect for him ) Rat is one of guys what i like, they are full of great ideas to improve game and 2nd pack ideas to troll. But sadly that first pack will be in 95% (if its not whine topic to nerf created by somebody) ignored
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on July 31, 2011, 10:45:45 pm
If your only source of enjoyment in Fonline is in spoiling other peoples fun then you shouldn't playing at all. "I'm bored" is not an excuse to be a dick, it means you should go do something else.

Griefing is the poison that is killing this game, accountability is the antidote.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Senocular on July 31, 2011, 11:44:00 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 31, 2011, 10:45:45 pm
If your only source of enjoyment in Fonline is in spoiling other peoples fun then you shouldn't playing at all. "I'm bored" is not an excuse to be a dick, it means you should go do something else.

Griefing is the poison that is killing this game, accountability is the antidote.
PvP isn't griefing, get over it. There is open battle system and everyone is allowed to kill whoever they want. Just because you die it doesn't mean it's griefing.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: falloutdude on July 31, 2011, 11:46:19 pm
Quote from: Lonelylurker on July 31, 2011, 10:45:45 pm

Griefing is the poison that is killing this game, accountability is the antidote.
nooooo ... no updates/wipe is killing the game. accountabliity is the cure but guess what no wipe/updates
griefing happens in every game every day do thoses games die? answer is no if your still thinking about it.
griefing is part of game too it brings fun to many  people i love griefing and watching people get griefted. when i get griefted i just dont care what ever  ooo no i cant trade with trader  >:( but whats this theres traders all over the place ... no big deal.

rat has been trolling and such for a long time has game died no it was not. so dont think game is dieing because of trolling its slowly dieing becuase no updates and no wipe which is also why rat is trolling which all makes sense. when people are bored they troll which is the same for teens/kid when they dont have parks and things to do they do crime. bordom causes trouble.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on August 01, 2011, 04:27:34 am
Quote from: Senocular on July 31, 2011, 11:44:00 pm
PvP isn't griefing, get over it. There is open battle system and everyone is allowed to kill whoever they want. Just because you die it doesn't mean it's griefing.

I never said PvP was griefing, Ambushing careless travelers in the wastes and gangs fighting over control of the unguarded towns is part of the game. Griefing is when you do something for the specific purpose of causing grief. (i.e. suicide bombing/bursting in guarded towns, blocking merchants with slaves/mercs, and most of the other crap that Rat was boasting about), and there is no good excuse for it.



Quote from: falloutdude on July 31, 2011, 11:46:19 pm
dont think game is dieing because of trolling its slowly dieing becuase no updates and no wipe

The lack of recent updates and the general lethargy of waiting for a wipe are hurting, no question, but that will pass when the next cycle starts. Griefing has been slowly killing the game for a long time now by driving away players, especially but not exclusively new ones.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on August 01, 2011, 04:52:07 am
Quote from: Lonelylurker on August 01, 2011, 04:27:34 am
ck of recent updates and the general lethargy of waiting for a wipe are hurting, no question, but that will pass when the next cycle starts. Griefing has been slowly killing the game for a long time now by driving away players, especially but not exclusively new ones.
No, it was making and still making game less exploitable, more protected against future funbringers griefers, when this game will come out from beta, as you can see most "griefers" are reporting thier good deeds on forum, personally I do that only if noone is going to post about me for 2-3 days after I started "griefing", because when "griefer" does that thread, people read it and... well, nothing interesting happens, when a victim of "griefer" posts thread and people read it, a smile appears on thier faces, because this "griefing" is usually something really ridiculous and only that poor victim is raging, because taking everything too seriously. I'm sure everyone like to read such threads. If I did something "bad" and noone posted about me, it makes me sad and I have to report whatever I done. If there will be no "griefers", then other "griefers" can appear after some time and will do whatever "griefers" doing now, if gameplay won't allow to do it, then you won't see "griefing" anymore, to do that, devs need to know that "griefing", to know that "griefing" they need to see it, "griefers" showing it to them.
If someone will again ask "Why do they do it?", the answer is very easy: "Because it's fun."
Secondary bonus from it is that it gives opportunity to make this game better by knowing what to do to avoid future "griefing", if player A won't do that now, then player B could do that later, and someone like you would post a thread like that someday anyway, so sooner or later. Of couse Surf said that he can't have some mysterious "nice things" because of people like me, well that's bad for him, but I bet whatever those "nice things" mean, he can have them, if he'll do it properly avoiding whatever people like me can do to those "nice things".
About leaving players.
"He punched me in NCR while I was trading with Sha Enin and guards bursted us and killed everyone, I ragequitting, good bye."
Well, shit happens. If he wants to leave, let him leave, it's beta-test anyway.

Edit:
Forgot to type reason of the last.
For player: Well, shit happens. If he wants to leave, let him leave, it's beta-test anyway.
For devs: Guards shouldn't burst in public areas.

And that's just one of many examples.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on August 05, 2011, 08:05:27 am
If you reported each new exploit immediately, maybe after doing it once to prove that there's a real problem, then your 'improving the game' rational would be valid. But doing the same $hit over and over ad nausiam is just obnoxious, and as for 'it's fun' justifying such behavior; it spoils far more fun than it creates. (see the topic in General Discussion on this very subject)
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: RavenousRat on August 05, 2011, 08:08:08 am
Quote from: Lonelylurker on August 05, 2011, 08:05:27 am
it spoils far more fun than it creates.
No, it spoils fun may be for one poor victim, that usually deserves it, as I won't repeat "exploit" on someone for no reason. And brings fun to me, and everyone who reads such threads and everyone who knows that victim and knows that he deserves it.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: Lonelylurker on August 08, 2011, 03:28:10 am
Giving yourself and some other sadists a few chuckles by spoiling someone elses (potentially) several hours of work is most certainly spoiling more fun than you create. "They deserved/were asking for it" is an excuse routinely claimed by the perpetrators of many vile acts in the real world and, unless the person was griefing you, is equally invalid here.

If you personally have not more than once, ever, with any combination of characters, suicide bombed/bursted in a guarded town; and that one time was the first ever incident of it's kind to prove the problem was real, then well and good. Yet these are purely unrealistic unjustifiable acts of griefing which happen all the time, and the only way to stop this behavior(among others) is accountability.
Title: Re: Playtest Deposit
Post by: jonny rust on August 08, 2011, 04:19:45 am
Quote from: Lonelylurker on August 08, 2011, 03:28:10 am
Yet these are purely unrealistic unjustifiable acts of griefing which happen all the time, and the only way to stop this behavior(among others) is accountability.

the repetitive nature of these acts is what demeans them imo. The problem is they can come right back and do it again and the guards don't seem to recognize trouble when they see it.