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[jan0s1k]

If it isn't a license violation to donate towards server upkeep now then how would it be one to commit to a donation at a future time if you get banned?. Also eliciting deposit forfeitures isn't the point, reigning in the griefers is. Ideally no such forfeitures would ever occur because people would stop offending.

Yes, because donations are given if players just wants to donate, you can't punish him to pay. This what you want to do is called Pay2Play. Wonder why this topic isn't closed yet 

[Haraldx]

Are you assuming that more than half of the players would be unable to make the deposit? Or that more than half Are griefers?

I do believe both.

People are being driven away from the game all the time by the actions which this is all about preventing. If gratuitous troublemakers could be held responsible for their misbehavior then they themselves might leave but the player base overall should expand.

It doesn't change the fact nobody would be playing, players get bored, leave and the project dies. New players are all like "WTF WASTELUNDZ IZ TOO HARSHZXS LUL, ADD SAFESPOTS I RAGEQUIT", thus new players take their money back and leave, project dies forever.

[OskaRus]

I think that we have all agreed that this whole idea is worth vyližprdel.

[T-888]

I curse this suggestion may it never be fulfilled , damn you how can you suggest something like this ? ( smites Lonelylurker with a big fat cross , may the evil be purged )

Come on if you want to kill the game just think of something more interesting okey ?

[falloutdude]

it people are gonna troll there gonna troll. if you dont like this dont play this game and make dumbass suggestions. no one is gonna pay to play or how you say it "hold there money"  because this game does not update fast enough. and like said most people are young and dont have credit cards to give them paymet to hold and might not even have money.

[Senrain]

Because of the harsh nature of the game, it takes real diligence to keep it up and it can be hard not to quit at times when you're just starting out.

If people have to pay to play this game then the population will be essentially cut in half due to some people being unable to play.

Now you have to pay 10 bucks for a game with a shrinking population that is hard as balls when you're starting out.

Bluntly speaking the game isn't worth paying 10 bucks for imho, and I have no doubt that it would die if the creators made people pay.

We're doing the creators a service by spending our time playing their game, especially one as unforgiving as this, perhaps the game will be a little easier on the newbs as time goes on but as for now it's still piss hard and I doubt that will change any time soon.

[Jotisz]

To make this game pay2play there should be no content that isn't owned by the devs. Now the game uses elements from the Fallout universe it wouldn't be possible to make it a payed game as long the content remains what is it...
I don't see why this thread is still here it should have been moved to junk already

[Floodnik]

To make this game pay2play there should be no content that isn't owned by the devs. Now the game uses elements from the Fallout universe it wouldn't be possible to make it a payed game as long the content remains what is it...

Read the first post carefully. It's not really gonna be pay2play, it's different.
Nevertheless this suggestion is very, very bad, this is never going to happen because it would be a suicide.

[Lonelylurker]

New players are all like "WTF WASTELUNDZ IZ TOO HARSHZXS LUL, ADD SAFESPOTS I RAGEQUIT", thus new players take their money back and leave, project dies forever.

Because of the harsh nature of the game, it takes real diligence to keep it up and it can be hard not to quit at times when you're just starting out.

New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.

Read the first post carefully. It's not really gonna be pay2play, it's different.

Thank you for reading the whole suggestion carefully before criticizing, and appreciating the subtle but important difference.

Nevertheless this suggestion is very, very bad, this is never going to happen because it would be a suicide.

Then what solution would you suggest?

The only valid argument against this so far presented is that too many people lack access to paypal or can't afford to place $10 on hold. The $10 amount was just an example, really any amount would do as long as it's enough to not be willing to forfeit for griefing lolz. The lack of access argument is a potential problem but right now a purely speculative one, none of us here really knows if it's true or not and going around with "yes it isn't"/"no it isn't" here without hard information wont solve anything.

[Michaelh139]

This will not work.  For many reasons already explained.  Another one being that the economy for many places including the United States is in the shitter so many people (As said young people) would not be able to afford to "donate" to play.

Besides, the game is already well donated whenever it is need, and the devs have already realized the problem with alting and are working on a solution to make alts totally unnecessary, but still allowed if you say, you wanted a new rp character, or some other meaningful reason to make another character.  The only last problem would be multi-logging.

That's my gist of it anyways.

[RavenousRat]

New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.

"I was killing scorpions and gathering thier tails but guy in metal armor appeared in encounter and killed me! I ragequit! Ban him!"
"I was trading with Sha Enin but someone exploded me! I ragequit! Ban him!"
"I was standing and doing nothing and a rocket, launched from a tent, exploded me! I ragequit! Ban them all!"

I don't get it. You want to ban all "griefers"? Why don't make "griefing" impossible? Why don't you suggest non-PvP location towns.
It's easier to prevent "griefing" than punish players for it.
What exactly you want to stop? Bursting in towns? You don't understand poor suicidal bursters, they suffer alot:
1) They may critically miss, because thier smg is usually almost broken and if they critically miss, thier day is a fail, it's really a shame when you critically miss in NCR with smg when going to kill someone.
2) Each bullet is 95% to hit, you may hit only with 1 bullet! Or 2! Or 3! Or 4! It's not enough to kill. It's really really really really frustrating when you don't kill your victim.
3) You may lag! Your victim may walk away from you, but you won't see it and will burst him from >1 hex, if he's not low HP blue, you'll be sad.

Troll alts sometimes really poor, because you're too lazy to give him items from main/ask your friend(s) to bring you some and you need to wait till someone die in NCR, to loot thier items, sell them to Sha Enin and buy a grease gun and 15 .45 ammo to satisfy yourself.
Blocking traders, killing traders, luring traders to jail/brahmin pens/BoS bunkers sometimes is really hard, because a GM watching you and when you're done he appears and looks like troll for me, because he's ruining all those efforts to have fun.
I made 2 alts, bought alot mercs, pushed Buster in a corner of his tent, made mercs surround him and stand in his position,

that's really hard, because I needed to move only 1 merc at a time and hide from other mercs, so they won't see me and move when it wasn't required. I filled Buster's tent with damned mercs so noone would trade with him, I made 3rd alt to completely fill his tent so noone would enter it, but... when I came with 3rd alt and 4 his mercs, an evil trollish GM made all mercs disappear! I spent really much caps on mercs, really really much time to put those stupid AI idiots into thier positions to block Buster and prevent him from moving, but GM... just made them disappear! Also when I made Buster permabusy with my 3rd alt by pushing merc on his position and giving him order to move to Buster's current position at the same time and Buster wanted to return to his position = that's damn really hard, I went to sleep knowing that noone will trade to Buster until GM come, but... all mercs disappeared again! Or pushing Buster and guard with Floodnik, make them switch thier positions so they will try to return back but wouldn't because hex isn't empty -> permabusy both and can't be pushed, we did it! And you know what? Some GM made Buster unpushable after that! Now all you can do to Buster is to simply burst him! Sha Enin is real trolling from GM's side, you can't kill him, you can't push him, you can't lure him, he's just standing on one hex, surrounded by 6 hex blockers with infinite HP, you really can't do anything against him, simply nothing, even barter+speech non-stop talking alt won't help, because they can just push you and other player will start talking to Sha Enin instantly, you can't stop people from trading with him and it's really annoying. I even know how to switch positions of Sha Enin and Dusty! That would be really fun! But it's impossible because of Sha Enin's troll immunity granted by 6 hex-blockers.


Also there're no griefers, no trolls, everyone doing everything for a reason!
I was roleplaying BoS officer and wanted to lock all traders in BoS bunker to protect them from evil murderers with smgs! Also it would encourage NPC factions, BoS members had access to bunker! But GMs are killing my roleplay!
I was roleplaying NCR citizen by walking from one part of NCR to other while trader(s) were following me and noone could talk to them, but evil GMs abused thier powers and made me lie with 0 AP!
I was accidentally shooting my mercs, no, I was training on my mercs with different weapons with really low skill, I was counting real % to hit, because I didn't believed in 5%, but other players constantly accidentally were standing between me and my training target and I had "Oops!" hits! And it's not my fault! But evil GM sent me to Glow and then to jail!
I had low reputation and was wearing metal armor! A friend with high reputation started shoot me (we were testing my armor protection, really) and alot people joined him and died by guards! It wasn't my fault! But evil GM sent me to Glow!
I made tones of alts, gathered many flares, thrown them into Sha Enin just to make other players see him better (yes, so they know where trader is), he was glowing even at day! But evil GMs removed flares!
And if player says: "O no, he killed me =_= I ragequit." Then let him ragequit. Because if not "griefer" will kill him, he will ragequit when a scorpion will kill him or he'll spawn in 1 hex from NCR army and they will burst him, etc. I don't understand when you're leaving game only because someone made you sad, why not make him sad in return instead? And his friends, and friends of friends and his dog. Make them all sad and be happy! Just "grief" him everytime you see him and it'll be ok, make it as your goal.


So, now about your suggestion:
You want:
A player doing bad things - he's banned, his money goes to server.
A player not doing bad things - he's playing, his money sitting in deposit.
Easier solution:
Make players impossible to do bad things, so you don't need to wait till they do it to ban them...
So suggest something else.

[Surf]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[RavenousRat]

This is why we can't have nice things.

And what do you mean by "nice things"?
Actually I'm trying to make NCR somehow interesting, idolized thing made it guarded arena (if you're not one of those idolized who just shoot everyone on sight), trolling traders is really fun, just imagine it, a player comes to trade, comes to Sha Enin, but Sha Enin is missing, he runs to Buster, there're 10 mercs in his tent making it impossible to reach him, he want to trade with iguana seller, but he's running around and chasing some guy! That's fun! That's an action in town! Also some lucky player then finding Sha Enin in doctor's toilet blocked my slave, it's some kind of "hide and seek" mini-game in NCR! He wants to put caps to bank, but banker is in jail surrounded by brahmins! That's again fun!

And now really, what you wanted to say by "we can't have nice things"?
Imagine, noone killing/blocking traders, noone exploding people with dynamite, noone bursting in guarded towns, noone blocking or doing other stuff. What would change in good side?

[Reginmund]

This is why we can't have nice things.

got to hand it to ravenousrat though, you can just see the effort into testing the game instead of the run of the mill people "playing" yelling, rarrr griefer! ban him!

New players who ragequit mostly do so because of griefing by other players. If those griefers were held meaningfully accountable for their actions then many more new players would be likely to stay and become regulars themselves.

Apart from the obvious suicide bombing or bursting there are other ways to grief new players. The question then remains is where do you draw the line that the "playtest deposit" is forfeited?

I could act all friendly to a new player maybe take them hunting in a few encounters before doing a 180 and administering 10doses of good ol 10mm. I might then relog to different character and do same thing because how will they know im the same person?

What about stealing? do you consider that griefing or where do you draw the line?

Imagine, noone killing/blocking traders, noone exploding people with dynamite, noone bursting in guarded towns, noone blocking or doing other stuff. What would change in good side?

They only get harassed by thieves now?

[Surf]

There is no problem if people just play the game and communicate with each other. There is no problem with people testing out their boundaries in the game, it's a betatest after all and stepping above the line is appreciated if not needed. The problem arises when people dedicate their entire existence in the game to just ruin other peoples fun or make the lifes unnecessarily harder. There was a time when I found your Sha Enin obsession a bit funny, now it really seems that you should seek a doctor about that issue. You can come up with any of this "but I am just testing!11" bullshit all day long, it doesn't change the fact that you're nothing but a pathetic troll. Atleast you've good company there, a big part of the playerbase consists of exactly this playertype, not interested at all in the fallout universe, roleplaying or atleast manners/etiquette. And I am not even talking about the PvP players, there is often foul language involved but atleast the better ones seek for challenges and equal measurement amongst each other and have better things to do than to troll all day. That's what you do - you do nothing but trolling.