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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gob on June 26, 2011, 09:25:25 am

Title: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Gob on June 26, 2011, 09:25:25 am
Would be very cool to make the cars just like in Fallout Tactics to be able to drive them inside city or worldmap and you will have too go with car on the grid you want to leave just like player.But also the car could be destroyed if you shoot at it.It could have HP.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: jonny rust on June 26, 2011, 09:58:46 am
I think ultimately the game will go there, it will just take time. Landmines are being designed for the 3D era, another thing borrowed from FT and which were used mostly for anti-vehicle purposes, so it's not unreasonable to think drivable cars are coming at some point.

comes down to man-power and balancing as everything else does.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: LagMaster on June 26, 2011, 10:43:54 am
the engine does not support yet more than 1 hex caracters

that means that we can go in buildings and leave with no scrach

also some crash sistem and speed system must be implemented(remember when you where hitting cactuses in encounters?)
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Grommok on June 26, 2011, 10:57:10 am
Well, never played Tactics, but it seems good. However
the engine does not support yet more than 1 hex caracters
So for now it's impossible. Let's wait for 3d era (if it will ever come, however i will really miss the good 'ol falloutish 2d style, it will forever remain in my mind Fallout with 2d)
Plus, i like the idea of mines. Finally, deadly ambushes even with one guy arming traps!
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 26, 2011, 12:43:58 pm
I don't think this will ever happen unless someone creates new vehicle types, as the ones from Tactics are very ugly. Besides that, the maps aren't made with such a thing in mind, and in theory it might sound like a cool idea, but just imagine Shady Sands full of people driving in and out for the lulz with their cars. I don't see where it is of any use for the game.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: LagMaster on June 26, 2011, 12:45:43 pm
but just imagine Shady Sands full of people driving in and out for the lulz with their cars.
how about make cars unprotected
and how about anyone can enter the car
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 26, 2011, 12:46:46 pm
This wouldn't change the fact that the maps are far too small for that and that it'd look ridicolous.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Gob on June 26, 2011, 12:47:56 pm
Not every city should be able to permit player to drive the car.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: LagMaster on June 26, 2011, 12:49:53 pm
in this case how about we make a Fallout TOnline engine?
change it to FOnline Tactics if you prefere
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 26, 2011, 12:51:16 pm
in this case how about we make a Fallout TOnline engine?
change it to FOnline Tactics if you prefere

How about no? You can play Fallout Tactics just fine if you want to do that.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Graf on June 26, 2011, 01:43:26 pm
I see you are about to meet to the idea, that the game have to reject the global map eventually and change it to the open persistent world, which would have almost limitless amount of space for driving (and more). There's only a few of things that is holding from implementing of this idea:

1. It would require all the game world to be redone;
2. The maps are currently too flat (which isn't a con for me, just like it wasn't a con for Arcanum, for example)
3. Possible problems described above (which can be easily dealt with).

So the main problem is that the map have to be redone manually (unlikely, because it's more than a bunch of work) or have to be generated by script (which is already done (http://translate.google.ru/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=ru&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ru&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffonline.ru%2Fforum%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D19670), but it just needs some adjustments to fit our goal).

I think, that the 3rd described point may be solved by the own resources of the development team, or maybe we have to set up a coding contest or something.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Gob on June 26, 2011, 02:33:05 pm
Ye but player will shoot your car and you will still die since the car will explode.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: manero on June 26, 2011, 02:51:42 pm
Yes, lets change fonline into gta.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: DocAN. on June 26, 2011, 03:01:52 pm
Post Apo Carmagedon is a bad idea.

Imagine idolized troll in a car...
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Gob on June 26, 2011, 03:06:40 pm
Whats with all the negativity? It could be fun.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Grommok on June 26, 2011, 03:15:18 pm
Fun, yeah, but this would mean change the game to support cars. I prefer keeping the game "as it is", like a true fallout, than adjusting it to a thing that not anyone will use. And i'm not a dev!
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: falloutdude on June 28, 2011, 05:42:24 am
i would like it if i could drive and fight in my car in encounters but not in city.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Grommok on June 28, 2011, 12:18:38 pm
Better. Just rember that one should drive and the other shoot. ;)
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Korusho on June 28, 2011, 02:09:02 pm
Cars as transports to and fro are what they are now, but being able to drive them anywhere bring them into the combat scenario. Plus, I really don't want to get run over.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Andr3aZ on June 28, 2011, 03:19:24 pm
I think Cars could be fun but i don't think the maps are suited for such quick moving entities.
You enter your car, drive like for 2 seconds and youre at the end of the map. For bigger maps like redding it would be still dumb to get into your car in mainstreet just to drive to the mine. Also it wouldnt make much sense to implement it like the current world is built.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 28, 2011, 04:11:21 pm
Encounters yes, cities no.

I was thinking about encounters designed for cars, as some motorized raiders encounter the car and pursue it.

And that's how it should work:

The encounter resembles a static map, with the road and static car in the middle, surrounded by static raiders on bikes, basically, as if you were driving on a road, with raiders following you.
The map is drawn to suggest speed, with blurry tiles, with one road.
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/5271/map1e.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/map1e.jpg/)

To imitate movement, particles, like cacti, stones, car wrecks, road cracks, posts, are zooming by in one direction, technically, like projectiles sprites. (NorthEast)
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/4551/map2bo.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/94/map2bo.jpg/)

Then, the driver is a part of the car, with Action Points. They can be spent to move the car to the SouthWest, to the escape area, or, to the Raiders in the NorthEast, so his passengers can shoot them.
The car can move those two directions, or, change between three lanes, which consumes APs, too.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/3690/map3jn.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/687/map3jn.jpg/)

Ocassionally, a obstacle warning will appear, demanding the driver to change the lane.
(http://img810.imageshack.us/img810/9114/map4u.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/810/map4u.jpg/)

That will depend on his "driver skill" and draw the car' HP if the maneouver was unsuccesful, also, adding AP to the pursuers.
(http://img715.imageshack.us/img715/2476/map5f.th.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/715/map5f.jpg/)

This is more easier solution than developing all these things we saw in Tactics AND it will be original.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Andr3aZ on June 29, 2011, 09:43:08 am
This is a nice idea Lizard!

But i think it will be a bit of work to implement, and that means something like that will only make it in the game if our development guys are really into some idea like that.


And yeah, someone might come up with "there never have been bikes or raiders on bikes in fallout! this is not falloutish!"
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Grommok on June 29, 2011, 11:21:30 am
I dont think it's not falloutish. After all Fallout was inspired (apart from Wasteland) by Mad Max, and in Mad Max there was raiders with bikes. Since broken bikes are in the game, this would also give the possibility to add new quest to obtain special vehicles, like bikes with miniguns, or to add the possibility to mod vehicles. Why not? Theorically any vehicle "is not falloutish"
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Andr3aZ on June 29, 2011, 11:56:05 am
bikes with miniguns

Now you're asking for it ;D
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 29, 2011, 11:59:05 am

The encounter resembles a static map, with the road and static car in the middle, surrounded by static raiders on bikes, basically, as if you were driving on a road, with raiders following you.
The map is drawn to suggest speed, with blurry tiles, with one road.


This maybe sounds nice on the paper, but will look too artificial and dull in reality. Also, have fun doing hundreds of new tiles just for this small new feauture. It's not worth the effort.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Haterade on June 29, 2011, 12:13:02 pm
no no and no, i dont wanna see NCR flooded with mad drivers... i can imagine how the system would work (and in my theory it would work almost like in tactics) but i wont tell anything, the idea is just a pure crap. sorry.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 29, 2011, 12:25:42 pm
This is a nice idea Lizard!

But i think it will be a bit of work to implement, and that means something like that will only make it in the game if our development guys are really into some idea like that.

And yeah, someone might come up with "there never have been bikes or raiders on bikes in fallout! this is not falloutish!"

Thanks, Andr3aZ! :)

"Falloutish" is ineed a vague term, because every single person has its personal idea of it, but what is it in the end, it's up to those, who shape and implement it. It could be the developers or community itself, as we see in 3d development.

About work, it's mostly the art, mapping and drawing, but needs some scripting for obstacle appearance. There could be 5 NPCs ouside the visible map in SouthWest, shooting special obstacle ammo after a warning, like a guard yelling to put away the weapon, or else he shoots.

But else, it could be even realised in simple form with current mechanics, just replacing the players and NPC frames with vehicles facing SouthWest (for now, as Tactics frames spun in right direction) and making a map with exit grid in SW.


This maybe sounds nice on the paper, but will look too artificial and dull in reality. Also, have fun doing hundreds of new tiles just for this small new feauture. It's not worth the effort.

I beg to differ. ;D
It's just a small crappy drawn presentation, explaining the idea in general. But what if someone puts more effort in this? Aside from that, that wouldn't be "hundreds of new tiles", because sand with straight road will look blurry enough, in worst case, with appropriate filter.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 29, 2011, 12:30:32 pm

I beg to differ. ;D
It's just a small crappy drawn presentation, explaining the idea in general. But what if someone puts more effort in this?

Don't get me wrong, for sure it'd be appreciated, but I like to see things done or atleast better thought out before I beg to differ aswell. ;)
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 29, 2011, 12:38:31 pm
Good, so be it. I could talk about it the whole bright day, no? ;)
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lexx on June 29, 2011, 01:38:51 pm
That's like a super annoying minigame. You can't loot the dead and it will always look the same. You can't escape, because it's a linear railroad-trip. That means, under circumstances such an encounter can be the 100% sure death for the character, which in return means you lose everything by default. Not to forget all the technical difficulties that would need to be solved... In this cases, it would be easier to simply take Fallout: Tactics driving system.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: wreese2u on June 29, 2011, 03:56:54 pm
Nope O_o
Waste of time for somthing that does not need to be in the game...
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 29, 2011, 06:24:34 pm
Yes, you can't loot the dead. And no, it won't look worser than any encounter. And isn't the travelling alone a "super annoying minigame", watching the small cross slowly crawling along the map?

In this case, grab a gun and walk, kill things. When you drive a car, you will at least have this imitation of driving. On the worldmap, while even in Tactics, driving was restricted to cities. And where do you want to drive, inmidst the mayhem of PvP or NCR Bazaar? Nope.

100% Death. Yes. Driving is dangerous, so you'll need a good driver and some people with guns to fend off the pests. A team. But hey, you're a faster and louder target in Wasteland and you have some more thrill.

And, what technical difficulties is a very interesting point. What problems would you expect? No, really. If you don't want it in 2238, no probs, maybe someone else want it.
I'm just interested in your point of view as a developer.
Would it be really easier to take the Tactics driving system, with all those collision data, multiple hex movement all over the map, animations and huge turning radii of vehicles? Not to forget the frames, unless you want 3d Hummers.

The advantage of my idea IS the "railroad trip", with the freedom on X and Y axis and you CAN escape but you can CHOOSE to fight.
So what if it looks like a minigame? So it's the minigame then, like mining, crafting or playing slaver. I suggested the most easy approach with most gaming freedom.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Surf on June 29, 2011, 08:01:54 pm
I suggested the most easy approach with most gaming freedom.

How is being caught in a minigame you can't escape and only being able to move on a few axises "freedom", especially compared to the rest of the game?
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 29, 2011, 08:31:17 pm
How is being caught in a minigame you can't escape and only being able to move on a few axises "freedom", especially compared to the rest of the game?

Then, the driver is a part of the car, with Action Points. They can be spent to move the car to the SouthWest, to the escape area, or, to the Raiders in the NorthEast, so his passengers can shoot them.
The car can move those two directions, or, change between three lanes, which consumes APs, too.

It seems, sometimes, we both can't pay attention to written stuff, Surf.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Quentin Lang on June 29, 2011, 08:45:54 pm
YO YO, I WANT THEM DRIVEABLE CARS IN CITIES BECAUSE I WANT TO DO GANGSTA GANGSTA DAWG DRIVE BYS TO PEOPLE OF RIVAL HOOD
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/5923/madnessxq.jpg)
picture related
its me and my hood
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Lizard on June 30, 2011, 11:06:32 am
>>YO YO, I WANT THEM DRIVEABLE CARS IN CITIES BECAUSE I WANT TO DO GANGSTA GANGSTA DAWG DRIVE BYS TO PEOPLE OF RIVAL HOOD

Hello, Quentin!
Bring in more raeg, so someone can have a reason to lock oh-so-hated thread, 'cuz i left him speechless. ;D

And for now, my idea rocks, that's why you should implement it, haha!
Oh come on, do you really think it gets implemented, here, on 2238?
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Andr3aZ on June 30, 2011, 01:14:47 pm
Reason why a suggestion doesn't get implemented:

- The game staff doesn't like it. Be it whatever reason.
- It's technically not possible.
- It's too much work to be profitable for the game.
- It has much less use than other suggestions and the game staff rather works on those promising suggested features.

Reason why people rage about those reasons:

- They feel belittled by the game staff.
- They don't understand the game mechanics or general software development.
- They are mad that their idea is not implemented even if it is kinda good, but don't understand the amount of work that needs to be done to implement it.
- They are jealous at other suggestions and feel like the game stuff don't like them personally and therefore not using their idea.


I have seen much suggestion-threads and every time when a staff member answered with denial the OP is mad in 75 % of all cases. I know Lexx and Surf can write hard critic sometimes that easily reads like they are mocking you, but it's honest critic and that counts much more than anything. So don't take it personally. The reasons are there and logical and you should take it like a professional and think more about the game we all like to play and wanna have fun with it instead of placing your own interest infront of everybody else.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Grommok on June 30, 2011, 07:30:28 pm
Andr3aZ's right. I think this one is a mix between
- It's technically not possible.
and
- It's too much work to be profitable for the game.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Graf on June 30, 2011, 08:05:54 pm
Andr3aZ, you're right in general, but it's wrong to say that's it isn't possible to implement this suggestion. It is possible, because one of the Fonline (which is under development still) servers already have such feature. Don't want to advertise it here, so if you want a link to it - you can PM me.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Senocular on June 30, 2011, 09:10:43 pm
You forgot one reason. "It's hardcoded". So the only person able to do it would be Cvet himself.
Title: Re: Drivable cars in city/encounters
Post by: Andr3aZ on July 01, 2011, 10:14:23 am
Graf, I didn't really know about the possibilty to implement the feature suggested in this thread. I just wanted to make a general statement about suggestions and their possibilities, as the discussion here moved towards the usual fighting.
Interesting to hear about some Fonline-Server got something like that running.

Senocular, Yes thats true, goes partly under "technically not possible" though.