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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Badger on April 26, 2011, 12:58:26 am
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Long post. Brace yourself. And it's Badger talking about TC. Booo.
RIGHT. Inspired by this thread (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15705.0), specifically this post (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15705.msg129939#msg129939), I have a few TC suggestions. They're pretty major. Expect your mind to be blown.
1. Every town in the game is assigned a capturable 'Special Location'.
Every town in the game gets a capturable location that exists outside the town. The towns themselves are no longer capturable. As a consequence, the number of 'capturable' locations increases from 6 to 14 (minimum) corresponding to the number of towns ingame. This spreads PvP over the entire worldmap, and thereby creates more opportunities for smaller gangs - the increase in TC areas mean that it's much harder for a gang to hold them all, and the distance between them all makes it logistically more difficult to dominate. Gangs are forced to pick an area they want to control, and more gangs are given a chance.
2. Each special location produces a resource and has special crafting benefits.
Every town is assigned a relevant resource and crafting bonus.
Modoc's Ghost Farm, for example, would produce a lot of brahmin hides for the gang that captured it. The crafting bonus would be that any Leather Armor produced by the controlling gang is automatically upgraded to LA Mk2. Vault City's Research Facility would produce small energy cells, and any laser weapon built there is automatically upgraded. Junktown's Junkyard would produce metal parts, and any metal armour built there would be automatically upgraded to MK.2 (All just examples, not necessarily the way they'd go)
Not all bonuses/resources would be equal, to spread demand for each of these areas. Super organised gangs would inevitably go for the best resources/bonuses. Smaller, weaker gangs would then be more likely to control the less desirable areas. 10mm Ammo Production vs. Micro Fusion Cells, for example. Gangs have to choose between high risk, high competition, high reward, or the less popular areas.
3. All towns are now guarded.
I can only see it spreading the game population wider and encouraging more people into towns. More content is used, as people will start doing the otherwise neglected northern quests. It creates very clear zones = Towns are for questing/trading/etc., capturable locations are for fighting. PvPers get more fighting locations, PvEers get more questing locations. Everybody wins.
What do you guys think?
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Reminds me of something called Domination Mode!
3. All towns are now guarded.
I can only see it spreading the game population wider and encouraging more people into towns. More content is used, as people will start doing the otherwise neglected northern quests. It creates very clear zones = Towns are for questing/trading/etc., capturable locations are for fighting. PvPers get more fighting locations, PvEers get more questing locations. Everybody wins.
Arguments seem pretty fair, however then the more guarded towns you have, the more the server "PvE/casual/nonPvP" population gets spread over the Wasteland. This is not good. Maybe some way to make every guarded town special in its very own way would do the trick.
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Yeah, but Domination mode seems to require a whole bunch of new scripting doohickies (and I have no idea of progress: if they're beyond the idea phase or totally complete), whereas this is just the same system swapped out to include a lot of new areas.
The main problem would be maps. But I do remember reading that eager mappers are one of the few things that aren't in short supply.
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There are some points that I really like. Don't bother for the maps, that's really the least of the problems.
I do see some problems with your ghostfarm example though, as the location will not be on the worldmap by default after the next update.
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Reminds me of something called Domination Mode!
Waaaaitt.... a minute...... Isn't this Domination in a nutshell??? :o
;)
But I do like the small (and a particularly HUGE) changes to it though. The huge thing: ALL towns being gaurded would require a MAJOR overhaul because, as we all know, there would be a whole shitstorm of ways to exploit around the gaurds there.... So designing gaurd placement, HP, stats, equipment, etc, this would take I think a whole month if you kept at it and actually tried to get it right on the first try. It certainly would take more than a business day...
Also, this would give gangs a chance to actually meet each other after battling, sure, they would prolly rage each other but I see some gangs having a good chat with each other. This may be very unfallouty like sounding, see as these enemies who just killed each other are suddenly talking like friends.... But shit, there's too much hate which causes continuous griefing.
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Also, this would give gangs a chance to actually meet each other after battling, sure, they would prolly rage each other but I see some gangs having a good chat with each other. This may be very unfallouty like sounding, see as these enemies who just killed each other are suddenly talking like friends.... But shit, there's too much hate which causes continuous griefing.
Wow, I never thought of that, but it makes sense. I like it. There's a safe ground attached to that TC location, and the two are much more closely interlinked. Each town has a safe location and a dangerous location. Meaning that there's plenty of opportunity for post fight smacktalk.
And if you control a town's TC area, it's likely you'll spend time in the nearby town too (like the WWP in Redding). There's a chance people not involved might become familiar with the gangs, as they have a physical presence in the town (even if it isn't strictly their town in the sense it used to be).
Hell, people not part of a gang might get involved in patching people up/selling gear before and after fights. If there's an attempted capture in your local area, it's an incentive to visit the nearby town and see if there's anything you can profit from. The idea of a fight starting and a whole host of wasteland parasites descending upon the town to hawk drugs, guns and slaves appeals to me in a very strange way.
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I don't really do TC so i don't really care one way or another except DO NOT MAKE RENO A GUARDED TOWN. The small gang pvp in reno is fun and amazing, should never be taken away.
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Nice suggestion, I would like to add some of my thoughts as well:
1. The map where the PvP occurs could be some sort of stronghold, like a base of operations, from which the gang "controls" the town. Would be interesting for a gang to siege a stronghold, rather than just fight on some desolate map.
2. The gang is allowed to set a tax that the merchants charge the players, somewhere between 0%-25%. Hopefully, we can see more complex politics, such as players revolting against a gang because they do not want to pay a high tax.
3. Merchants in towns should be more unique in the type of merchandise they sell. For example, you would find merchants selling dynamite only in Redding, while in Modoc they would not have Metal Armor for sale (it is an agricultural town after all).
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I will be honest. I think this idea is better than mine (which is explained in the post mentioned by Badger). Problem is it seems to share some characteristics with Domination Mode, so I don't see your suggestion getting implemented. I do have faith in Domination Mode, which we all know is eventually getting implemented.
In other words, good one, but don't expect it to become a reality. Anyway remember there are some people who are in PvP gangs but share some opinions with players like you :)
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I will be honest. I think this idea is better than mine (which is explained in the post mentioned by Badger). Problem is it seems to share some characteristics with Domination Mode, so I don't see your suggestion getting implemented. I do have faith in Domination Mode, which we all know is eventually getting implemented.
In other words, good one, but don't expect it to become a reality. Anyway remember there are some people who are in PvP gangs but share some opinions with players like you :)
Domination mode is supposed to be more open and not restricted to player factions but with a limited amount of players that may participate in the control of certain areas (on behalf of an NPC faction??) for benefits etc. TC as i understand will be left with a no restriction to the number of participants as i recall.
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all towns are guarded? no no no.
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all towns are guarded? no no no.
Did you read the suggestion? The PvP that we have in town, will just be transfered over to some location near said town. So you still have your TC/PvP (what is wanted by "PK/APK") while introducing life and stability into towns (what is wanted by "roleplayers") a win-win situation.
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Did you read the suggestion? The PvP that we have in town, will just be transfered over to some location near said town. So you still have your TC/PvP (what is wanted by "PK/APK") while introducing life and stability into towns (what is wanted by "roleplayers") a win-win situation.
no its not win win, because now players need to do quests for example and go to modoc, pkers can wait there and kill them and enjoy that. After this suggestion, random killing could happen only in encounters, that would suck totally.
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Something like lineage 2 towns and castles? :P Good idea!
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no its not win win, because now players need to do quests for example and go to modoc, pkers can wait there and kill them and enjoy that. After this suggestion, random killing could happen only in encounters, that would suck totally.
You say PK can't (gird) camp to blast some people trying to level up with quests? And that's a bad thing?
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I doubt this still would solve the "one gang dominates" situation. Even if small gangs would be able to cap those sectors, the one big gang would just move there in matter of minutes and smash them. It's everyday life today: one night after alarm was sounded, our allies came to redding from den and killed the invading enemy gang before I could relog (3mins). To prevent this, tc has to support actually guarding or somehow inhabiting the towns rather than capping&buying militia and then leaving them empty. This way the dominating gang can't just move around the world and overpower small gangs one at a time. And then spend rest of its time in readyness to answer to any threat.
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You say PK can't (gird) camp to blast some people trying to level up with quests? And that's a bad thing?
yes it is one of the worst. Taking away another feature from game, i dont see why it is needed. It is a risk, a thrill to do quest in modoc and run away, and it would be not anything like that if all quests would be shitty quests like in ncr "bring cigs to buster" type. And as it was said before there are many guarded towns that are empty anyway even now, so towns like modoc would just become free shitty and empty quests zone, nothing more, and i do not see that as game improvement.
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Hum sorry but i can not agree that all the town become guarded... In this case is better to play to Sims... Wasteland must be dangerous... If you want NCR in all wasteland it's your problem, but i think lot of players don't want that...
Pk >>> Can not PK ( only in the wasteland or with friend or bombers ) ( robber paradise )
Apk >>> Can not APK ( only in the wasteland )
In outline, impoverishment of the game...
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Hum sorry but i can not agree that all the town become guarded... In this case is better to play to Sims... Wasteland must be dangerous... If you want NCR in all wasteland it's your problem, but i think lot of players don't want that...
Well how does that work? There's a bigger increase in the number of dangerous locations than guarded. The entire world now contains unguarded locations instead of just half of it. There's more opportunities for people to PvP. More gangs would try to capture and hold an area, meaning there's likely to be more PvP. More PvP means more danger, only the good kind which involves two groups that want to fight each other.
So what kind of danger are we actually going to lose? Shooting questers? Camping entrance grids? The kind of danger that's widely considered (http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=15717.0) to alienate and frustrate players, particularly new ones?
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He's probably referring to that ganking/griefing won't be as easy anymore as it is at the moment.
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As said, it reproduces a lot of domination.
Presuming that particular half of the suggestion is tied up in domination, the real question is what to do with the guarded towns. I think we will probably try different things in each one and see what works and what doesn't. One thing I wanted to try was having one guarded except for the hours in which their window to be captured was in effect - so that town would only be unguarded for 2 or 3 hours a day.
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In fact, what we have now is that all towns (well, except Modoc and Klamath) are guarded already. The only thing that is going to be changed with this suggestion, is that there will be no necessity to waste money on militia which will be killed within a few hours anyway, because it gives no real protection against organized group, but it allows to abuse militia feature for killing poor bluesuits and gridcamping. Meanwhile, making PvP in a dedicated area like in the suggestion, would be just more convenient for the players.
Also, I've been thinking of the way, how to combine Badger suggestion and what Solar said and making a nice compromise between both of them:
1. The Town is guarded by the town militia, which isn't killing every enemy of faction on sight (just like it's now), it should work like NCR guards, but without of automatic reinforcements. It shouldn't be a necessity to kill militia to get control over the town. The Town itself could be captured within 2-3 hours (or maybe one exact hour, which is better) during the day, but capturing it wouldn't give any advantages to the gang, except the line in the PipBoy;
2. The PvP area isn't guarded and it could be captured only in case if the town is captured already;
3. If both (The town and PvP area) is captured, then nobody can't try to get control over the town in next 23 hours and the gang controlling it will get advantages which was mentioned by Badger in the first post.
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3. If both (The town and PvP area) is captured, then nobody can't try to get control over the town in next 23 hours and the gang controlling it will get advantages which was mentioned by Badger in the first post.[/color] [/i]
I don't know where you are from, but Europe =/= the whole World. There are different timezones.
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I don't know where you are from, but Europe =/= the whole World. There are different timezones.
It was discussed many times already, mostly when TC was available at a certain time only (which was awesome, because everyone could prepare themselves to the fight). Anyway, according to the suggestion, there will be 14 places/towns available for seizing control over it, which means at least 14 hours out of 24 hours per day available for TC, so everybody, from every part of the world can participate.
Also, it should be quite clear, that most of the people playing this game is from Europe and Mid East (time zones GMT - GMT +4 mostly), so the peak on-line should be expected at around 21-00 GMT +2. Moreover, there will be a domination mode upon wipe, which is particularly aimed for small groups of people, which people not from Europe mostly are.
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So what kind of danger are we actually going to lose?
Pk >>> Can not PK ( only in the wasteland or with friend or bombers ) ( robber paradise )
Apk >>> Can not APK ( only in the wasteland )
In outline, impoverishment of the game...
He's probably referring to that ganking/griefing won't be as easy anymore as it is at the moment.
Why not ? There is a law against that ? It's impossible to do something against gang ? Form a gang is easy ? An MMO is not for playing in group ? Solo players don't have all south to play in a relative security ?
The Town itself could be captured within 2-3 hours (or maybe one exact hour, which is better) during the day
I really like ideas that killing liberty of the game...
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So what are the similarities/differences between this and Domination? I'm curious. Is Domination going to work as a replacement or work alongside existing TC? Will TC still be mainly focused on towns? Will Domination be introduced on wipe?
As a general note, I like the idea of towns having overpowerable NPC guards. Enough to stop the kind of shittiness that a lot of people don't like, but still able to be overpowered by an organised force. I think that's great.
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Is Domination going to work as a replacement or work alongside existing TC? Will TC still be mainly focused on towns? Will Domination be introduced on wipe?
- Alongside
- Yes
- Yes
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Alright, so Domination has its own new locations, available to be captured by both gangs and NPC factions? And TC remains a separate system, the same as it is now?
Because I'd still prefer this new style of TC to be included alongside Domination, rather than Domination being placed on top of the current TC system. Iif crafting bonuses would be better kept Domination only, that's fine, regular TC could only give you caps.
My system would mean gangs capture each town's PvP zone rather than the town itself, while Domination areas are still fought over as intended - with controlled team size, for crafting bonuses, etc.