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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Doctor Eex on March 18, 2011, 01:48:43 pm
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I'm pretty sure that something like that was suggested already. But please read carefully.
It's a very simple idea and I would like to share it with you, my dear wastelanders.
I'm "old school" fan of Fallout 1,2 and like TB combat mode. RT is evil IMHO that we have to have ) to make 5 vs 5 or 10 vs 10 or 20 vs fights without getting old during 1 fight.
So many discussions about "turn based" vs "real time"
What is already discussed:
1) Fonline aspects (SPECIAL, AP, perks, interface and whatever) is not so great for RT. Many people love this game and hate RT. Because it's:
a)require mouse skills - to click exactly on running target
b)looks like CS 2D
c)it's pretty uncomfortable to reload, change weapon, use chems with current interface.
d)not so rich tactics. Run, 2 bursts, run-n-hide, reload, use SS and repeat.
2) Classic TB is bad bad idea for multi-player PVP. More players - more time wasted.
30 secs for 1 player. Assume we have 20vs20 fight - 40x30 = 1200 seconds. 20 minutes. And whole town is frozen during that (remember NCR TB fun??)
Was offered several times - system with TB plannig, then play action after end turn. let's say 30 sec for plannig - and few sec to play all actions. Nice idea, but requires HUGE engine change, so hardly possible.
What am I offering now - change RT to following rules:
1)All fights goes in RT mode. TB disabled.
2)To move, you spent AP
3)AP one by one regeneration is disabled. All AP is regenerated at once with start of new round. New round starts in 30 sec. So each 30 sec full AP regenerated.
So each turn last 30 sec (or less if all made actions|pressed end combat)
4)full AP gain happens with delay, depending on character SEQUENCE Maximum sequence = no delay and so on.
5)If your char is not in combat mode (not attacked or attacking) - you can run free. So no frozen towns during fights.
6)End combat cooldown is more than 10 secs.
7)Running in combat is possible. You can run twice fast then normal walking. I doubt game engine allows to spent 0,5 AP on each hex, so movement is scripted this way:
Lets say you have 10 AP. You want to make 1 14mm pistol shot in the eyes (cost 5AP with BROF) and run to cover in 10 hex from you.
You make shot, 5 AP left. Then you RUN 5 hexes (0 AP left) and get 5 bonus move points (as you used running mode) and spend them.
To balance this running, and make assaults possible, if character used running mode during this round he gets:
+20 AC class till the next round (running target is harder to hit) for any ranged weapon. (A benefit for melee and unarmed fighters)
-40% penalty for chance to hit with ranged weapon (you ran and you weapon is swinging) (Once again, a boost for melee-unarmed)
This can be modified with some perks in future
What we will get as result - All benefits of real-time, advanced tactics, usefulness of bonus move, earlier sequence without TB drawbacks (Each round lasts max 30 sec!).
And it's not so hard to implement, I believe (expect running scripting)
Honestly - it's ridiculous that 1AG bruiser char as mobile in combat as 10AG jet junkie.
As always, Dear developers, first of all I'm interested in your opinion
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I'd love to play in such mode. Though, I don't believe that it will be ever implemented, because it requires a lot of scripting, while there is a very few scripters among developers.
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I'd love to play in such mode. Though, I don't believe that it will be ever implemented, because it requires a lot of scripting, while there is a very few scripters among developers.
All that need to be done at first stage (we taking existing RT):
1)spending AP on move in cmbt mode
2)refreshing AP each 30 sec + delay depending on sequence
Than some testing. I think many volunteers are ready for that.
Running can be scripted at stage 2
However I'm 0 at FOnline engine and scripting. So I want to hear developers comment on that.
I think this idea is very good compromise between RT and TB and a way to develop combat somehow.
And no more TB traps with 1 pk shooting 4-6 times on you :). You can fight back.
And still you can make maneuvers in city ruins. And no more 1 vs 5 or more farmable encounters. You want to fight a patrol? Get your friends with you.
Encounter will become much more dangerous (as it should) Oh, I want this system so bad.
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Combat would be awfully slow. Max 6 shot per 30s (and with a pistol fast shot)? Come on...
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Combat would be awfully slow. Max 6 shot per 30s (and with a pistol fast shot)? Come on...
If all combatants spent their AP (or pressed end turn), than start new round immediately. So not so slow. 30 sec is maximum
So it will be something like RT if all play fast. If not, kill that asshole first.
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So it will be something like RT if all play fast. If not, kill that asshole first.
TB would be fast as well if everyone were playing fast. It's not the case either.
And what you do about the guy not in combat mode who rush you to burst you at point Blank? Or once all ennemies snipers are in combat and spent their AP, you make your big gun rush them, and burst as soon they're in range.
No really, i don't think it could work.
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You would better make TB simultaneous rather than breaking RT.
That means everyone can play at the same time in TB mode, and their AP is reset when the last player ends the turn.
Problem is that it does not work with seqence...
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you make your big gun rush them, and burst as soon they're in range.
How would you rush them, if there is a limited number of action points, and you are wasting 1 AP for moving each hex?
This idea would work very well, if it would be thought out well.
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How would you rush them, if there is a limited number of action points, and you are wasting 1 AP for moving each hex?
They are not in combat, nobody can shoot them... Or all map is in combat every time someone shoot? NCR will be soooo good....
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PRETTY COOL SOUNDING THINGS HERE
and then some... stupid... suggestion
7)Running in combat is possible. You can run twice fast then normal walking. I doubt game engine allows to spent 0,5 AP on each hex, so movement is scripted this way:
Lets say you have 10 AP. You want to make 1 14mm pistol shot in the eyes (cost 5AP with BROF) and run to cover in 10 hex from you.
You make shot, 5 AP left. Then you RUN 5 hexes (0 AP left) and get 5 bonus move points (as you used running mode) and spend them.
To balance this running, and make assaults possible, if character used running mode during this round he gets:
+20 AC class till the next round (running target is harder to hit) for any ranged weapon. (A benefit for melee and unarmed fighters)
-40% penalty for chance to hit with ranged weapon (you ran and you weapon is swinging) (Once again, a boost for melee-unarmed)
in your suggestion running snipers (who dont need such mobility) suffers, while BG/SG does not (and they are running ones), which is totally nonsense, as it in fact does nothing but anger you...
much more wise it would be to put walk on 0.5 AP/hex so you could move somewhere slow, but far; and 1ap/hex for fast but shorter running. With 10 AP you could walk slowly 20 hexes or run in fast way 10. That would give both movements advantage and disadvantage.
anyway this is not going to happen I think :(
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What is already discussed:
1) Fonline aspects (SPECIAL, AP, perks, interface and whatever) is not so great for RT. Many people love this game and hate RT. Because it's:
a)require mouse skills - to click exactly on running target
b)looks like CS 2D
c)it's pretty uncomfortable to reload, change weapon, use chems with current interface.
d)not so rich tactics. Run, 2 bursts, run-n-hide, reload, use SS and repeat.
2) Classic TB is bad bad idea for multi-player PVP. More players - more time wasted.
30 secs for 1 player. Assume we have 20vs20 fight - 40x30 = 1200 seconds. 20 minutes. And whole town is frozen during that (remember NCR TB fun??)
Was offered several times - system with TB plannig, then play action after end turn. let's say 30 sec for plannig - and few sec to play all actions. Nice idea, but requires HUGE engine change, so hardly possible.
All true,we need a more tactical combat system, but I doubt it can ever work in TB, or even with this suggestion (as was already explained by Crazy).
Honestly - it's ridiculous that 1AG bruiser char as mobile in combat as 10AG jet junkie.
Not quite, the 10AG character has a faster AP regeneration, and can "do more" with his AP.
I know it was previously suggested, but maybe have RT combat slowed down, and implement AP usage for movement.
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First of all, thanks to all who participating in discussion. Because TOGETHER we can develop very interesting combat system.
All true,we need a more tactical combat system, but I doubt it can ever work in TB, or even with this suggestion (as was already explained by Crazy).
With all respect, Crazy did not mention anything that makes such system impossible. Let me explain it further.
Not quite, the 10AG character has a faster AP regeneration, and can "do more" with his AP.
Yes, but it as agile as 1AG bruiser, considering MOVEMENT
in your suggestion running snipers (who dont need such mobility) suffers, while BG/SG does not (and they are running ones), which is totally nonsense, as it in fact does nothing but anger you...
Snipers already has their advantages - deadly on long range, pretty nice chance to DISABLE BG.
And in any tactics snipers need to be covered or unreached by enemy infantry. \
That would give both movements advantage and disadvantage.
Running and walking will have disadvantage - see AC bonus and CtH penalty.
Not sure still I got your point, appreciate if you will explain it further. Thank you.
They are not in combat, nobody can shoot them... Or all map is in combat every time someone shoot? NCR will be soooo good....
And what you do about the guy not in combat mode who rush you to burst you at point Blank? Or once all ennemies snipers are in combat and spent their AP, you make your big gun rush them, and burst as soon they're in range.
Crazy, thank you for really GOOD questions. Because answering these smart questions we can figure out perfectly interesting combat system.
Let me explain.
First of all, not all the map at combat once somebody shot.
Second, Round timing is 1 for all combat participants. I think 1 timer for all location, to make sure everybody's AP regeneration is synchronized and happens according to sequence.
Third, when entering combat, your BG will not shoot immediately. You will enter combat mode and with beginning of new round you will gain your AP, with delay according to your sequence. And by the way, if you are not in combat yet, you don't know when exactly those bunch of sniper will shoot, as you don't see yet the timer.
4th, better not leave bunch of snipers uncovered! (tactics, man!...)
By the way, I believe 30 sec will be unnecessary, may be 20 or 25 sec per round will be enough.
As for running in combat, we can go even further! We can limit running, according to Char characteristics. I think running capability should depend on ST.
I got 2 ideas how to do that:
1)If you are carring more that 50% of your capacity, you cannot run. Makes sense. ST will be more important for STORMTROOPERS.
OR
2)Number of HEX you can run in combat is 2xST. So 1ST jet junkie sniper 12 AP can use runnig only for 2 hex (and get 2 bonus move).
Maximum movement for him = 2run+2bonus move for that + 10 AP = 14
BG 7 ST 12AP
Maximum movement for him = (7x2=14) 12run+12bonus move for that = 24
Imagine this choices -
more EN or runnig in combat?
More AP or better Sequence?
Also, would be cool to upgrade Dodge perk, giving +10 to AC instead.
So there will damagers. Not so fast in movement, but high seq, brd and so on. And tanks, HP, good runnig, dodging.
More variety to build, combat more tactical.
And this will add also TIMING aspect to your tactics
When to move or shoot? as soon as i got my AP. or to wait a bit, to make sure enemy moved and I can run safe?
You would better make TB simultaneous rather than breaking RT.
WAY BETTER TO HAVE 1 COMBAT SYSTEM SUITABLE FOR ALL - TC, farming whatever.
And please, don't be so pessimistic about implementing new combat system. I think there's a lot of PVPer on server.
May be someone tired of having the same RT combats and want to have more depth in build and diverse tactics in combat?
And if this combat system is smart as TB and almost as fast as RT?
Together we can design all the details and come to developers with true tactical combat system. Thank you for your attention.
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I'd really love to see a change in RT combat. What we have now is very... em... silly.
30sec per turn is a bit much, 20 should do. Take a gunner or sniper that shoot once per turn, that's 2sec of clicking and 28 of waiting. A turn should be: time to walk 14 hex (14 ap is max?)+sequence delay (the delay betwen the max and min seq. chars)+5sec (for lag and planing).
The walking/runing based on strength is good and bad at the same time. A BG with a ton of ammo and heavy gear should be the fastes? I don't think so.
How will it work with the first shot? The one to fire first is the one to win in many situations, and the first shot is 'out of combat'.
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Yes, 20 sec should be enough...
How will it work with the first shot? The one to fire first is the one to win in many situations, and the first shot is 'out of combat'.
Let's assume there's no fight on location yet. A wants to kill B to take his gecko pelts.
Mister A is typical 2xBRD 12 AP BG and have not read last change log. He does not know that RT and TB is now "RT TB"
He run to burst at point blank mister B. Mister B is kamikadze smg burster.
Mister A comes to 0 distance and press FIRE!!! FIRE!!! FIRE!!!. But! He does not do burst, he just start 1 round and wait for his AP to come with delay according to seq. Mister B has higher seq and burst first.
Mister A should open combat from distance more then 20 to have advantage.
So this is solution for "first burst" Whaen you're not in combat, you don't shoot. You actually enter the combat and then act in order according to sequence.
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Second, Round timing is 1 for all combat participants. I think 1 timer for all location, to make sure everybody's AP regeneration is synchronized and happens according to sequence.
Third, when entering combat, your BG will not shoot immediately. You will enter combat mode and with beginning of new round you will gain your AP, with delay according to your sequence. And by the way, if you are not in combat yet, you don't know when exactly those bunch of sniper will shoot, as you don't see yet the timer.
Your friends in combat know exactly the timer, and tell it to you. And even if you don't burst the point blank this turn, you go to 1 hex, enter in combat... And at the beginning of new turn, burst (extreme situation, only be at range against snipers with short range DPS like plasma tank is enough to rampage) .
4th, better not leave bunch of snipers uncovered! (tactics, man!...)
So, do you mean a sniper line in open field with ennemy in front of them won't have any chance without tons of short range support? Nice tactic.
By the way, I believe 30 sec will be unnecessary, may be 20 or 25 sec per round will be enough.
Will still be slow as hell for me.
As for running in combat, we can go even further! We can limit running, according to Char characteristics. I think running capability should depend on ST.
I got 2 ideas how to do that:
ATM movements is one of the most important thing in tactic. You will totally destroy that by replacing tactic by build. A team not able to move together is terrible.
Imagine this choices -
more EN or more AP?
More AP or more crit chance?
Resistance or damage?
There are already choices, and Solar promised us much more.
WAY BETTER TO HAVE 1 COMBAT SYSTEM SUITABLE FOR ALL - TC, farming whatever.
Like said, doesn't suit at all for TC. Farming would be awfully slow too though.
And please, don't be so pessimistic about implementing new combat system. I think there's a lot of PVPer on server.
May be someone tired of having the same RT combats and want to have more depth in build and diverse tactics in combat?
And if this combat system is smart as TB and almost as fast as RT?
Together we can design all the details and come to developers with true tactical combat system. Thank you for your attention.
I really think it won't be good, and it will take a hell of time to code...
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ATM movements is one of the most important thing in tactic. You will totally destroy that by replacing tactic by build. A team not able to move together is terrible.
For now, what really does not make much sense is running hordes. And shoot|take cover to regen|o'k regened - now you can run like sick all over the map, unless you'll shoot again. It's looks like ostrich racing with guns.
Tactics should be not about running in bunches... Now! Swarming decides more often, because - right, free run.
And even if you don't burst the point blank this turn, you go to 1 hex, enter in combat...
If sniper has more seq, you'll be gunned in the eyes and knocked out.
So, do you mean a sniper line in open field with enemy in front of them won't have any chance without tons of short range support? Nice tactic.
In open field with 20 sec per round we will have almost the same situation. Now! In RT! out-of-combat Bigguner can run to you and make instant 2 bursts.
With my proposition, it's not so simple.
2 variants:
1)you don't get fully what am I propose here
or 2)you think that FALLOUT 1,2-wise ridiculous existent RT system is perfect.
Will still be slow as hell for me.
O'k instakills and 2 second death is so much fun... Please tell me, where RT fight is more interesting - on Requiem or 2238?
Like said, doesn't suit at all for TC
NOTHING said to prove that point. Only "too slow" (btw timer has 15 minutes! it's 45 rounds! ) and "cannot run in packs" (btw you still can)
Farming would be awfully slow too though.
There should be no easy and fast farming btw. Even a word "farming" is kinda out of place. Let's say wandering the wasteland should be more dangerous and less profitable.
About the coding. Still wait for developers comments, but... All needed - is to modify existent RT system.
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For now, what really does not make much sense is running hordes. And shoot|take cover to regen|o'k regened - now you can run like sick all over the map, unless you'll shoot again. It's looks like ostrich racing with guns.
Tactics should be not about running in bunches... Now! Swarming decides more often, because - right, free run.
You should definitely do some TC by yourself to understand how much it is that more complex than "swarm" and "run like an idiot in bunches".
If sniper has more seq, you'll be gunned in the eyes and knocked out.
A: you won't be looking the sniper if you're not idiot
B: and what if you're not KO? Doesn't happen at each crit, and there are perks against that...
In open field with 20 sec per round we will have almost the same situation. Now! In RT! out-of-combat Bigguner can run to you and make instant 2 bursts.
I really wish to see ennemies BG dumb enough to rush our sniper line in open field. We would have much more victory, and much more easier ones if it was the case.
With my proposition, it's not so simple.
2 variants:
1)you don't get fully what am I propose here
Maybe. But I don't agree at all with what I get of your proposition.
or 2)you think that FALLOUT 1,2-wise ridiculous existent RT system is perfect.
Nothing is perfect, it can of course be improved. But I don't think your proposition would be better (would be worst IMO)
O'k instakills and 2 second death is so much fun... Please tell me, where RT fight is more interesting - on Requiem or 2238?
I prefer 2238 fight ! And much more ! In fact, the only problem I have with requiem is combat system, I would love to see 2238 fight on Requiem: I find Requiem better in many aspect but combat mechanic.
NOTHING said to prove that point. Only "too slow" (btw timer has 15 minutes! it's 45 rounds! ) and "cannot run in packs" (btw you still can)
There should be no easy and fast farming btw. Even a word "farming" is kinda out of place. Let's say wandering the wasteland should be more dangerous and less profitable.
Well, you're free to think all my points are invalids. But you can't say I didn't said anything to prove my point, I pointed out some flaws.
About the coding. Still wait for developers comments, but... All needed - is to modify existent RT system.
Easier said than done.
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O'k I got it.
Crazy votes for existing RT system. Next, please!
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Agreed with Crazy.
BTW. What about people who start a fight in a swarmed town, like NCR? Do the bluesuits have to wait then?
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Agreed with Crazy.
BTW. What about people who start a fight in a swarmed town, like NCR? Do the bluesuits have to wait then?
No. Actually, this is not TB based, actually it's REAL TIME ROUNDS suggestion
You agree with Crazy, but you have not read the suggestion and discussion. Nice. Next please.
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To be honest, there is only one point in doing this, and that's movement difference in RT and TB.
Because otherwise it is always the best to overcome hard encounters in TB and do PvP in RT.
There is no way that stopping to idle just to create thinking time would make game better, as taking away reaction and mouse skills would reduce already simple combat system.
If you are carring more that 50% of your capacity, you cannot run. Makes sense. ST will be more important for STORMTROOPERS.
Suggestions with "will be more important for" are usualy not the best ones - you've got already some system from FO2 and now you're adding more limits.
It might come close to kind of reality where snipers differ from bursters by having just 2 points of SPECIAL elsewhere.
SPECIAL should be mostly bonus, not a requirement. Right now characters with ST 3 or lower work, but they have llimited inventory, cannot pickup Stonewall and very low ST are even limited in their armor choice.
Only C never translated well from singleplayer, for obvious reasons...
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you have not read the suggestion and discussion.
What
And my question is still actual.
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What
And my question is still actual.
Yes, here another example - you don't read posts. I answered you
No. Actually, this is not TB based, actually it's REAL TIME ROUNDS suggestion
taking away reaction and mouse skills would
make game looks more like some system from FO2
Honestly, F2 system is ruined by existing RT combat. Period.
SPECIAL should be mostly bonus, not a requirement.
SPECIAL all the way requirement, in F1,2 and Fonline. That's base for all system. Why char with let's say POOR strength should be so athletic in metal armor and with avenger?
However as you may notice, I have 2 variants of suggestion here, because yes, limitation is question to discuss.
Suggestions with "will be more important for"
Because I want to go further than 1 BG buid for RT and 1 BG build for TB.
And yes, tactics of each char SHOULD be determined by build. And yes, attacking, defending and maneuvering capability too.
To be honest, there is only one point in doing this, and that's movement difference in RT and TB.
Not only movement. TB has one disadvantage - turns one by one player. In all other aspects it's more Falloutish, tactical, interesting - whatever.
RT combat itself is a very specific compromise. May be it's time to go further?
And more reason - Having 1 combat system will very good. For players, for developers. Unfortunately, existing RT system is moorhuhn run.
There's another reason actually. Unfortunately "blood and bones" of Fonline is PVP. Then I believe goes PVE. Then other thing like players interaction and quests.
I bet many players doing the same things many times will understand me. May be it's time to change something?
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When I'm alone, TB is an option. You get really annyoing stuff like entering combat with bunch of stupid ants or rats, but also pretty much arbitary amount of time to think out actions. Since players are not always playing with others, TB is quite a good thing for solo play.
Why char with let's say POOR strength should be so athletic in metal armor and with avenger?
Because when they load with stuff they can't even move where higher ST characters could - so the stuff is already there.
Said that, there is still no reason to be for creating artificial pauses (ugh, can't move or do stuff for 10s, eventhough it's Realtime?) and limiting build options even more, just because you like it.
It's multiplayer game now, having TB and RT is good, because soling is still better balanced in former and always will be.
SPECIAL all the way requirement, in F1,2 and Fonline.
F2 was almost perfectly balanced with stat requirements, even dumb players were allowed to finish the game, as well as defenseless weaklings of Myron type.
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Said that, there is still no reason to be for creating artificial pauses
Hey, we are playing
(http://fodev.net/forum/Themes/NewBabylonTheme118/images/2238-logo.png)
Not
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/2009.jpg)
Am I wrong?
limiting build options even more
Not limiting options. With this suggestion you will have more choice to made.
TB is quite a good thing for solo play.
Yes, but with this suggestion we can eliminate annyoing stuff like entering combat with bunch of stupid ants or rats
Because when they load with stuff they can't even move where higher ST characters could - so the stuff is already there.
They have running capability even they fully loaded of stuff. I got it - So-named "Powerbuilds" with low ST CH are your favorite?
And you don't want to make hard decisions - now we have all-in-one.
It's multiplayer game now, having TB and RT is good
Having 2 modes is not good. Some of perks useless in RT. Some of builds useless in TB. Developers should think of 2 modes. Nothing is good here.
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Why everyone wants to change RT mode, when it works just fine, just needs some improvements. I fully agree with Crazy, making it turn-based would be a step backwards. I guess the reason why you want the change, is that you ( and most of us ) are overfed with current game mechanics, but it doesnt mean they are bad, they are far more superior compared to Requiem ones. Defending perks is irelevant, you sure know that they are going to change in near future ( moreover, I wouldnt say RT mode is bad because some perks dont fit, but perks are bad, because they are taken from original game ).
If you want to implement this, and dont want to scrap TB mode, I say change it to this suggestion.
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Doctor Eex, I know that you're suggesting real time rounds. I'VE READ THAT.
But they are still rounds :'( And others will have to wait for the rounds' to end.
Hey, we are playing
(http://fodev.net/forum/Themes/NewBabylonTheme118/images/2238-logo.png)
Not
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/2009.jpg)
Am I wrong?
Yeah, but hey, we are playing
(http://fodev.net/forum/Themes/NewBabylonTheme118/images/2238-logo.png)
And the RT system is it's very own feature.
That's not
(http://student.agh.edu.pl/~rawiak/fallout2logo.gif)
Neither it's
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/2009.jpg)
.
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If this going to be ever implemented, then maybe it could replace TB, not RT?
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And others will have to wait for the rounds' to end.
What others? Who is those others? Have you got the idea?
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We still have to wait in the current Reall-ish Time combat for AP to regenerate.
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What I REALLY don't like in existing RT system...
Frankly, it's 2 thinks.
1)You need to click to fast running bunch of pixels. To make sure you clicked, better click multiple times.
2)You need to switch fast - attack mode - move mode. If there's was - left click running and right click firing...
3) Which is the worst - you should not move if you spent your AP and when you once regenerated - you can run like hell
This is completely wrong...
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RT will be fine when AP can be removed from it.
If animations and stuff can be changed (and it can be with 3D) you'll be basicly able to create a pistol shot animation exactly long as running over 4 hexes (for character with same amount of AP), while increasing agility or taking jet would result in actions being faster.
There is no need for sequence to be honest, but running speed might be somewhat unfair when out of combat.
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RT will be fine when AP can be removed from it.
Removing Action Points? Did I understood you correctly? Please... go play Counter-Strike 2D, if you want something like what you've described.
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Please... go play Counter-Strike 2D, if you want something like what you've described.
A totally correct way to discuss stuff.
What do you in fact think that would Fallout look like in realtime?
If it takes one guy a turn to either move 10hexes or to shoot twice. Then shooting twice should take equal time of running 10 hexes.
There is no reason to keep AP if this works.
And comparing this to 2d shooters? Well, it'll play exactly as Fallout did, except you will not have time to think your actions out.
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What I REALLY don't like in existing RT system...
Frankly, it's 2 thinks.
1)You need to click to fast running bunch of pixels. To make sure you clicked, better click multiple times.
You made me laugh. YOU are to slow not game is to fast.
It's your problem not problem of all server , i never had problems with "clicking a running pixels"
Go play requiem or TLA if 2238 is to fast for you.
2)You need to switch fast - attack mode - move mode. If there's was - left click running and right click firing...
It's not so hard ,none of my friend playing this game have problems with that.
3) Which is the worst - you should not move if you spent your AP and when you once regenerated - you can run like hell
This is completely wrong...
The only thing in your post that has any sense.
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Removing AP and adjusting animation time lenghts... That's actually a good idea!
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Removing AP and adjusting animation time lenghts... That's actually a good idea!
A burst takes 6-7 AP, a hit with a rock 1-2, can you imagine how slow the firing would be or how fast the punch would be?
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You made me laugh. YOU are to slow not game is to fast.
It's your problem not problem of all server , i never had problems with "clicking a running pixels"
You made me cry...
One of server's problems is PWNING kids like you. Some of so-named PRO-PVPers on 2238 are reasonable guys, but definitely not you.
"never had problems with clicking a running pixels"
It's not so hard ,none of my friend
Let's say... A human is not a flea - can get used to anything.
But I point to obvious things... I'm not saying it is impossible to do. ;) I'm fast enough, however I want to improve game that I liked.
I've done already what I could - my interface for example...
The only thing in your post that has any sense.
Can say the same - the only thing of your post.... ;)
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adjusting animation time lenghts... That's actually a good idea!
That is what required to be done at least when 3D comes here. And developers want to do that and I believe will do.
Removing AP
Worst idea EVER. It's something like remove SPECIAL, skills and perks. Wait. Crimson Land has perks!
O'k let's have perks, remove anything else [/sarcasm mode off]
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Heh, so BROF will make firing animations faster, more agility will increase speed as well. There is absolutely no problem with that, no SPECIAL feature was removed, just original was put in real time.
We just 'rename' derived stat from 'Actions Points' to 'Action Speed'.
A burst takes 6-7 AP, a hit with a rock 1-2, can you imagine how slow the firing would be or how fast the punch would be?
We don't really need to have bashing with rock anyway, and definetly not on such low AP cost, it's not like AP costs are matching original in all cases anyway.
EDIT: and if anything, there is no need for realism, just hold smg in air blazing for few secs, nobody would know exact fire rate of the gun anway.
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You made me cry...
One of server's problems is PWNING kids like you. Some of so-named PRO-PVPers on 2238 are reasonable guys, but definitely not you.
You made my day :D Go to Fallout 2 (yes, single player) if you don't want to be "PWNED" "adult" by fast clicking. And one more suggestion if you ever think about it: Don't even try to play StarCraft or you kill yourself because of "fast clicking japan "kids""
Btw, I feel another flame topic here :) It will be about how one side is calling other side "kids", and second side how is calling first side "noobs"
Let's say... A human is not a flea - can get used to anything.
But I point to obvious things... I'm not saying it is impossible to do. ;) I'm fast enough, however I want to improve game that I liked.
I've done already what I could - my interface for example...
You can do your own mod based of FOnline SDK if you don't like it, with whole Hello Kitty signs, etc...
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You made me cry...
One of server's problems is PWNING kids like you. Some of so-named PRO-PVPers on 2238 are reasonable guys, but definitely not you.
Let's say... A human is not a flea - can get used to anything.
But I point to obvious things... I'm not saying it is impossible to do. ;) I'm fast enough, however I want to improve game that I liked.
I've done already what I could - my interface for example...
Can say the same - the only thing of your post.... ;)
I'm not caling you child , but you actually act like child .
A 'm not teling that your suggestin is shit but i think that 2238 has one of best if not the best RT combat systems ever used in any Fonline servers .
2238 don't need new combat system it only need some balance in weapons/perks . There is no need to change RT system we already have.
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Btw, I feel another flame topic here
It only you who flames or floods here.
If I wrote something bad correct me I will learn
You wrote something wrong. Learn and keep your bullshit away from this thread please.
You made me laugh. YOU are to slow not game is to fast.
Yes, this is child talk here...
And it's definitely not my problem that some bunch of kids wants to farm falloutish things on falloutish maps and PWN falloutish bluesuits
My problem is - I want some changes.
2238 don't need new combat system
it's only YOURS humble opinion. I believe only Rotators team actually knows what 2238 need and what don't need.
We just 'rename' derived stat from 'Actions Points' to 'Action Speed'.
Frankly, to have a suitable RT TACTICAL system we and to forget about AP below things are needed:
1)Different stances and movement with bonuses and penalties to AC and CtH. Run walk, crawl...
2)Time to aim, different to different weapon type (BG - more time to aim, 2 handed SG less, 1 handed SMG - even less). Shoot immediately - WTF for RT. Play some RT squad tactics games.
3)Different firing modes - burst, snap, aimed, scoped.(with CtH and time to aim modifiers)
4)Different types of perception. (visual, acoustic, may be even infrared.)
5)Time to turn character (and his weapon! ) to another direction.
This is needed to make normal RT.
2 ALL
If you want your casualty - o'k please dont flood here. One post like "I'm against because..." is enough.
No flooding here, please. Wtf is that for example:
Don't even try to play StarCraft or you kill yourself because of "fast clicking japan "kids""
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That is what required to be done at least when 3D comes here. And developers want to do that and I believe will do.
...
Worst idea EVER.
It's just that AP simulates the firing lenght in RT. Like, the Sniper Rifle aiming in the eyes takes some time in reality, that's why it takes so much AP in the game. We could just lenghten the animation time so it actually looks like the player is aiming, plus removing AP. Also the mechanic would need to be changed, that the target gets hit when the animation is finished, not when it starts like it's now.
Doing just one of these makes no sense for me :P
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. Also the mechanic would need changed, that the target gets hit when the animation is finished, not when it starts like it's now.
Yes, aiming time. All this is MUCH HARDER to implement (and to get some another game?), than to get fair RRB combat.
that's why it takes so much AP in the game
This by the way is makes RT fight as it is even more ridiculous... Shoot, then spent some time stand still to shoot again.
That's why first hit and fast clickers decide who wins.
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Let's start repeating on rageman flame posts :)
It only you who flames or floods here.
I wasn't calling other people kids :)
You wrote something wrong. Learn and keep your bullshit away from this thread please.
Why so angry? It was referring to bad stylish/etc
Yes, this is child talk here...
And it's definitely not my problem that some bunch of kids wants to farm falloutish things on falloutish maps and PWN falloutish bluesuits
"Talk" is between 2 persons, so you call yourself a child? Ah, so now I know why so much rage in your words..
My problem is - I want some changes.
it's only YOURS humble opinion. I believe only Rotators team actually knows what 2238 need and what don't need.
Frankly, to have a suitable RT TACTICAL system we and to forget about AP below things are needed:
Oh, really? So why you posts are only WANTS and requirements?
I want to improve game that I liked.
Again do you want?
Because I want to go further than 1 BG buid for RT and 1 BG build for TB.
1)Different stances and movement with bonuses and penalties to AC and CtH. Run walk, crawl...
2)Time to aim, different to different weapon type (BG - more time to aim, 2 handed SG less, 1 handed SMG - even less). Shoot immediately - WTF for RT. Play some RT squad tactics games.
3)Different firing modes - burst, snap, aimed, scoped.(with CtH and time to aim modifiers)
4)Different types of perception. (visual, acoustic, may be even infrared.)
5)Time to turn character (and his weapon! ) to another direction.
This is needed to make normal RT.
It's just stupid idea.... BG for example don't really need to aim, because it's usually shooting from 1-9 hex (which 9 hex is even too much as I thing). Next one, 2 handed SG less, why? did you ever read what you wrote? It's exactly same what is with BG, but there is one difference, you can aim, so why are you thinking, that it should have less time to aim -.- One handed SMG, I can even agree...
Different types of perception.As I wroted before, if you want to make Hello Kitty Online you have SDK for it..
If you want your casualty - o'k please dont flood here. One post like "I'm against because..." is enough.
No flooding here, please. Wtf is that for example:
Just reference to "how playing in FOnline is like", you have to click fast, not make another cooldown <.<
Read this again:
Doctor Eex, I know that you're suggesting real time rounds. I'VE READ THAT.
But they are still rounds :'( And others will have to wait for the rounds' to end.
Hey, we are playing
(http://fodev.net/forum/Themes/NewBabylonTheme118/images/2238-logo.png)
Not
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/2009.jpg)
Am I wrong?
Yeah, but hey, we are playing
(http://fodev.net/forum/Themes/NewBabylonTheme118/images/2238-logo.png)
And the RT system is it's very own feature.
That's not
(http://student.agh.edu.pl/~rawiak/fallout2logo.gif)
Neither it's
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/2009.jpg)
.
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jan0s1k, whatever. Next please.
"Talk" is between 2 persons, so you call yourself a child?
Yes, definitely I'm a child because I'm trying to argue with kids :P
. BG for example don't really need to aim, because it's usually shooting from 1-9 hex (which 9 hex is even too much as I thing). Next one, 2 handed SG less, why? did you ever read what you wrote? It's exactly same what is with BG, but there is one difference, you can aim, so why are you thinking, that it should have less time to aim -.- One handed SMG, I can even agree...
Aiming includes time to turn your gun to right direction, yes???
And BG is also Rocket Launcher.
Play some good RT squad tactics games, o'k ?
Anyway, go flood and over-quote somewhere else. Thank you!
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I almost missed this thread I like your idea Doctor Eex. I'm also part of those who like the TB combat better and I have to say that this idea sounds real good and would make some perk that do nothing in RT to function (bonus move), didn't see anyone mentioning this one.
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I almost missed this thread I like your idea Doctor Eex. I'm also part of those who like the TB combat better and I have to say that this idea sounds real good and would make some perk that do nothing in RT to function (bonus move), didn't see anyone mentioning this one.
well, some chars have the exact amount of AP for shooting / bonus move making them better in TB
Some chars were made for RT, they not always have exact amount of AP for (for example) 2 eye shots, but have more AP so it recharges faster in RT
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well, some chars have the exact amount of AP for shooting / bonus move making them better in TB
Some chars were made for RT, they not always have exact amount of AP for (for example) 2 eye shots, but have more AP so it recharges faster in RT
Thanks, captain obvious. And what?
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Basically, two factors decide if you win or lose a battle:
1. Number of players/mercs on each side,
2. Luck.
(I assume, of course, that both sides are equally well equipped, and they know the basics of combat)
It won't change, no matter what system is implemented.
Therefore: devising a new combat system is a waste of time, all the more so that what we have now works just fine.
Also: if you're eighty years old and your reflexes are insufficient for RT, I suggest you play chess instead of Fallout (and I'm not even joking).
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if you're eighty years old and your reflexes are insufficient for RT, I suggest you play chess instead of Fallout (and I'm not even joking).
Epic fail. You don't need reflexes to play Fallout.
Insert Quote
Basically, two factors decide if you win or lose a battle:
1. Number of players/mercs on each side,
2. Luck.
(I assume, of course, that both sides are equally well equipped, and they know the basics of combat)
It won't change, no matter what system is implemented.
Oh yeah, may be developers just wasting time, balancing that or this. Lets make just count people on location and make luck roll.
We don't need neither Rt or TB, it's just waste of time. [/sarcasm mode off]
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a)require mouse skills - to click exactly on running target
Epic fail. You don't need reflexes to play Fallout.
Need I comment? There's some fail here alright, but it's not me failing.
Lets make just count people on location and make luck roll.
Not a bad idea, actually. Much better than the one from your original post, that's for sure.
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Need I comment? There's some fail here alright, but it's not me failing.
Double fail man... Or you're thinking you're playing Fallout here? No, you're not.
Most of the time you are playing in MMO 2D shooter in Fallout setting. Especially if you participate in TC.
Not a bad idea, actually. Much better than the one from your original post, that's for sure.
No need to demonstrate your idiot-ism here. My suggestion is to add "Fallout" in Fonline.
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Double fail man... Or you're thinking you're playing Fallout here? No, you're not.
Most of the time you are playing in MMO 2D shooter in Fallout setting. Especially if you participate in TC.
*sigh* If you want pure Fallout, play... Fallout (or Fallout 2), not F2238. TB is not meant for multiplayer, deal with it (...while being thankful it's still here).
No need to demonstrate your idiot-ism here. My suggestion is to add "Fallout" in Fonline.
No, your suggestion is to make players unable to avoid your PK traps by only allowing one combat mode everybody has to use. Yes, sir, your motives are as clear as day to me, no matter how much effort you put into disguising them.
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No, your suggestion is to make people unable to avoid your PK traps by only allowing one combat mode everybody has to use. Yes, sir, your motives are as clear as day to me, no matter how much effort you put into disguising them.
We got 1 rule in this thread - first read, then post. You don't read, just post bullshit.
With my suggestion "traps" become obsolete, you can always fight back, as no situation (like it is now) - first who attack wins.
Next, please
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Domination and faction scenarios will have fixed numbers on teams
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Domination and faction scenarios will have fixed numbers on teams
Frankly, I'm waiting for those modes. I think it should be very prospective.
Could you please post some comment on suggestion? May be not as 1 for all combat mode, but as replacement for legacy TB?
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We got 1 rule in this thread - first read, then post. You don't read, just post bullshit.
With my suggestion "traps" become obsolete, you can always fight back, as no situation (like it is now) - first who attack wins.
Next, please
I've read through the thread, and your motives are so obvious that it almost hurts.
With your suggestion, traps will become much more successful, as everyone with low outdoorsman that steps on them will be sucked into them, and unable to escape, since you've suggested that combat cooldown should be increased to more than 10 seconds.
'Fighting back' is some kind of a sick joke, I presume? Surely a level 1 bluesuit will be grateful for the ability to hit you (or one of your over9000 mercs/teammates) for 0 points with his mauser before dying, except not really. Maximum griefing is your goal, just admit it already.
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I've read through the thread, and your motives are so obvious that it almost hurts.
With your suggestion, traps will become much more successful, as everyone with low outdoorsman that steps on them will be sucked into them, and unable to escape, since you've suggested that combat cooldown should be increased to more than 10 seconds.
'Fighting back' is some kind of a sick joke, I presume? Surely a level 1 bluesuit will be grateful for the ability to hit you (or one of your over9000 mercs/teammates) for 0 points with his mauser before dying, except not really. Maximum griefing is your goal, just admit it already.
Don't post nonsense. By the way, now in RT 1lvl bluesuit has about 0 chance to avoid trap. If it real trap.
Please don't answer. Thank you in advance.
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now in RT 1lvl bluesuit has about 0 chance to avoid trap. If it real trap.
...and your point is to make them unable to avoid a TB-ish trap instead, so you can kill him instead of players who prefer RT? How thoughtful of you.
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3 post in a row about killing bluesuits. Are you idiot or something?
My suggestion has nothing to do with killing bluesuits. Bluesuits will be killed with any combat system, unless it's no-pvp zones, as soon will be on TLA
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3 post in a row about killing bluesuits. Are you idiot or something?
My suggestion has nothing to do with killing bluesuits. Bluesuits will be killed with any combat system, unless it's no-pvp zones, as soon will be on TLA
*sigh* So, you've chosen pretending not to get my point as your line of defence? Oh well, I've already said everything I wanted as regards this topic, I guess.
Except for one last thing... as an old saying goes: "if it works, don't change it".
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*sigh* So, you've chosen pretending not to get my point as your line of defence? Oh well, I've already said everything I wanted as regards this topic, I guess.
Except for one last thing... as an old saying goes: "if it works, don't change it".
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/18265894/tactical_facepalm.jpg)
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And who is trolling?
2. Discussion is allowed, everything else will get you banned. This includes flaming, sniping, double posting, offending, insulting and similar. There will be no warnings. Read once again: no warnings.
...
5. Any post that looks like crap will be your one-way ticket outta here. Respect others and expect to be respected. If you're insulted, offended or similar, do not reply. Moderation tornado will clean the nonsense, sooner or later.
Are you idiot or something?
You wrote something wrong. Learn and keep your bullshit away from this thread please.
Please, stop talking nonsense, you looks on someone who want to be banned. Insulting people, talking about illegal stuff, etc..
Also your best argument is talking "next please", many people decided, that it is bad suggestion. I think, that you are only trying to keep this topic alive in any way what you know.... Devs should close this topic...
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Yes, quite. This will never happen and its just flamebait.