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Other => FOnline:2238 Forum => Archives => Suggestions => Topic started by: Gnoff on November 30, 2010, 05:04:38 pm
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Atm they're not really worth it, with their semi low damage/ crap range and no ap ammo such as dragons breath rounds or anything(not to mention that current shotgun rounds only do -10 ac). For instance the original damage of the combat shotgun was 15-25 with ranges of Single=22 ~ Burst=18 now it does 20-28 with 12 range. Or even worse the Pancor Jackhammer it did 18-29 with ranges of Single=35 ~ Burst=25 ! compared to now which is 20-31 with a range of only 16. For the most part at how encounters are on the world map or even worse in towns you'll be killed long before you get in range of your target. I can actually accept that the range was reduced as its a shotgun but my point was that the damage was not compensated for its range reduction I would say that the damage needs to be up by at least 40-50% across all shotguns, I mean common they're shotguns.
Edit: I would also like to see some sort of increased knockdown chance the closer you are to your target with shotguns.
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I would add knockback perk to shotguns, then they would become interesting weapons.
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+ Shotguns aren't requiring perk to use them properly.
+ Thier burst doesn't split, so you don't need to run at point blank.
+ Ammo easy to get/craft.
- Pancor Jackhammer isn't cheap...
In practice it's like P90C if you're shooting at long range to target in BA, the problem is both, P90 and Jackhammer aren't cheap.
Don't know about Combat Shotgun or CAWS, but anyway the main shotgun ability is non-spliting burst, there's no any other weapon which has such ability. If they will make AP shells, then jackhammer will rule at Hinkley.
Also again, you don't need BRD perks for this and high SG skill.
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The point blank comment wasnt about hitting them with all your rounds from a burst it's from actually HITTING them. Just try to get within 12 hexes(combat shotgun) and shoot them before they rocket/minigun/snipe you in the eyes or burst you with a gun that has more range say even a 10mm smg. The damage isn't compensated for how close you have to get to them.
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So, you want increased damage on 50%.
You still will go suicide outdoor against snipers? It won't change anything anyway, just stay away from places good for long ranged weapon.
Also shotguns are like Unarmed or Melee, you need only ~130-140% SG with 6 PE may be even less to use shotguns on max. Shotguns the best weapon for poor crafter.
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So, you want increased damage on 50%.
You still will go suicide outdoor against snipers? It won't change anything anyway, just stay away from places good for long ranged weapon.
Also shotguns are like Unarmed or Melee, you need only ~130-140% SG with 6 PE may be even less to use shotguns on max. Shotguns the best weapon for poor crafter.
So basically screw balance its a shitty crafter weapon, good to know that's what you think.
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I would add knockback perk to shotguns, then they would become interesting weapons.
You stole my idea! I mean, err, yeh, knockback for shotguns, I agree.
Also.
http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3593.0
This is a huge thread about shotguns, where there are all the solutions needed (i.e. knockback ;D)
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why doesn't devs give shotguns the knockback perk? can a dev answer why, please
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For shotguns to be of any use, they need to add in Fallout Tactics ammo types: Slugs, EMP, Flechette and Rubber, as well as the normal 12 gauge.
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I love the shotgun it's great in PVE and okay in PVP if you know how.
It's terrible at open world as you can get shot from everywhere you have to hide and wait to kill some 1.
It doesn't do great damage against a BA but what does without armor pen.
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Shotguns got now "Accurate" perk ATM and it very good for low SG skill players, but later on it's useless, because you got about 150%-200% SG.
"Knockback" would be more great perk than "Accurate" for high SG skill players.
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Shotguns are fast to aim at close range combat, but current combat style doesn't support that kind of features because shots are launched instantly. In addition, as mentioned the accurate perk isn't any good because everyone hits at 95% anyway, especially at close range combat.
You stole my idea! I mean, err, yeh, knockback for shotguns, I agree.
Except that knockback would be horrible to fight against. Imagine encounters with shotguns, you'd be basically constantly knocked down. Someone with fast shot and bonus rate of fire could fire knockback attacks with 3ap per shot and basically keep someone grounded for life the same way grenadiers used to do.
Anything that has to do with restricting other player's movement is bad design. Players shouldn't lose control of their characters while they are still alive.
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For shotguns to be of any use, they need to add in Fallout Tactics ammo types: Slugs, EMP, Flechette and Rubber, as well as the normal 12 gauge.
+9000
Its ture that in FT they are making damages of burst like 100 - 150 dmg (both for metal armors and even to better)
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I'd like the FT ammo for shotguns. In Ft I've always used shotguns as a support weapon for snipers, if the enemy got to close a burs from the jackhammer was always better then trying to go for the eyes.
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...my guess is people who are programing the guns' dont know their calibers.
or, they just wanted to "WOW" it......and make their own caliber versons.... its weak sauce...
shotys hit at 30+feet. mabey not as good as 20feet, but if i did you from 30, you wouldnt like it.
...i would thou. - ::)
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Except that knockback would be horrible to fight against. Imagine encounters with shotguns, you'd be basically constantly knocked down.
Well, maybe, but you'd get what you deserve, right? Shotguns have really small range and if three or four of them get in range, well, you have to suffer indeed.
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Knockback should be small range defense weapon, not killing machine (except bluesuit). I can imagine situation where as a sniper i will choose to SG because of protection of myself against close range attacker (bursters,..).
problem:
1) weapon switch is too slow
2) if you can knock back enemy, HtH and unarmed will suffer
3) stonewall perk - every BG have this one, so if knockback ability would be affected by this, no new real addition to pvp will be implemented
I suggested time before that there could exist TANDEM weapons (i.e.: one player will cause the drop of enemy weapon from his hand and second player will knock him back by SG burst). But realy, i dont think that this tactic could survive supermutants swarm :P
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For shotguns to be of any use, they need to add in Fallout Tactics ammo types: Slugs, EMP, Flechette and Rubber, as well as the normal 12 gauge.
Yep Definately, They Should get a few different types, Even Explosive Shells!
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shotguns AND plasma weapons(and probably HtH kick too) shoud both have the knockback perk, this will balance BOTH weapon classes(energy and small guns)
now only the Rocket Launchers and the sledgehammers got this perk, if you add the plasma weapons and the shotguns(and why not HtH kicks) the weapons sistem will be more balanced
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shotguns should be fatel up close, and pending on youre skill deadly from 20/30 feet.... to me that looks about......
15 move spaces. it would be difrent, if their was a crouche and prone feature and cover to save youreself from ambush and mabey defend for a bit.
shotguns AND plasma weapons(and probably HtH kick too) shoud both have the knockback perk, this will balance BOTH weapon classes(energy and small guns)
now only the Rocket Launchers and the sledgehammers got this perk, if you add the plasma weapons and the shotguns(and why not HtH kicks) the weapons sistem will be more balanced
That is cool idea, I think the plasma granade death animation is.....well, its awsome.
sledgehammers should have more devestating impact damage...
cus, its.... a heavy mf, of iron... cracking the dom of are head.
ouch.
on criticle mabey crazyer resolts.
knockback- knock down - ko... bleed out.
macheties should be more devistating on criticles too
and combat knives.
or anything nasty...
gheto weapons would be cool, like Q ball in sock.
or led pipe, in bos, alot of muties had pipes, and when they hit the charicter they would lose gutz and shit.
but all crits where like that alot of the time some times, with extra blood on... thats such a great game...
this is agreat game too.
trailng blood would be cool.
and abilitie to fall of briges or road sides in to pits or pools of acid or something cool. +more cheap crazy briges
gient crabs by the coast would be cool. or rotting beached wails just as scenery.
more dead corpses as scenery.
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Was going to start a topic, but found this one! I completely agree with this post, shotguns suck! I hope there is something planned post-wipe to make them a little better!
Well, maybe, but you'd get what you deserve, right? Shotguns have really small range and if three or four of them get in range, well, you have to suffer indeed.
Agree!
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http://fodev.net/forum/index.php?topic=3593.0Twenty pages of discussion on this topic including soem lengthy posts of solars test logs.
Tldr: Use the pancor alongside a sniper rifle, it puts out damage slightly lower than that of an avenger but as a sidearm.