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[borse]

I apologize in advance to anyone that may take offense to this or anyone who may hold high emotional value on an opinion regarding these topics.

I'm not trying to be inconsiderate here but can all of you PLEASE stop moaning about things like cooldowns, full loot drop, PKers, thieves, Suicide PKers, etc... There are solutions for all of those things and these solutions do not involve developers. They involve YOU, the player.

Cooldowns: No one said you're only allowed to craft and gather during your days on FOnline.

Full loot drop: "WARNING: This game may not be suitable for young players. You may die in this game and there is no save function!" - copied and pasted from the top of the forums. If there are players waiting right at the exit grid, there is a high chance they are tent followers. Check for the military style V over their heads, if it is present they are going to follow you. If they follow you out to wastes just click their name on the left hand side and select the button that has 3 men and an arrow pointing leftwards.

PKers: If someone kills you in an unguarded town, what does that tell you? Unguarded towns aren't safe. Do you go there again under the same conditions? no. If someone kills you right under Hub twice, do you: A) walk through that square again hoping you'll miss the encounter, OR B) walk 1 square to the left and continue on your way, with FAR less chance of being PKed.

Thieves: A bunch of bluesuits are touching your ass even while you flee and/or push them away. Do you decide to do a big 10k trade with Sha Enin? If you're a moron or a VERY quick trader, then yes.

Suicide PKers: It's pretty simple. Stay away from large groups of people but stay close to guards. If you notice 2 people walking in unison and towards you, they may have planned to team suicide pk you (one shooter, one looter). Your options are to run and stay out in the open where the guards can see you. The only time Suicide PKers will seek you out is if they know you have good gear, low enough hp to 1 shot and are far enough away from the rest of the NPC/player populace that they will get all the loot. SO, don't show off your metal armor mk2 if you're level 4. OH and don't chill in NCR thinking you have no chance of dying. If you aren't level 15-21, carry nothing in NCR. If you want to trade with vendors, scope out what items they have currently and run to your tent to grab a few items for a small trade. I never run into NCR with stuff thinking I'm going to make tons of trades so I always trade with the vendors before I even get my items from tent. If no caps are available and you want to quickly get rid of some junk items, then trade for ammo. BB's are great because they hold good value throughout many wasteland merchants.

Anytime you go anywhere but your tent/base, expect to die and lose everything on you. There are risks involved with everything on FOnline, your job is to factor in those risks and make intelligent and rational decisions to ensure your characters best interests are met.

[avv]

It's pretty obvious that whining won't help. But the "fixes" you offer don't provide much comfort, except when it comes to full drop and cooldowns. They may be the way to play the game right now but who says we aren't allowed to question them?

For example suicide pks don't make much sense in terms of fallout background story or rational gameplay (why play a char that you intentionally drive in certain death?), these are sufficient reasons to question them.

[Bantz]

Anytime you go anywhere but your tent/base, expect to die and lose everything on you. There are risks involved with everything on FOnline, your job is to factor in those risks and make intelligent and rational decisions to ensure your characters best interests are met.

That should be writen by big letters on "Get started" page. We might not see an hundreds word long story how one get tent robbed, then brought the robber back to his tent to give him his stuff back and got robbed again with nice suggestion "do something".

The only real problem is the suicide pking, that should be fixed but other then that stuff like thieving, pking in encounters, tent following and so on can be dealt with with wits&reason. 

[набегат]

i agree with topic starter. It's wasteland - it should be harsh

[borse]

I know, suicide pking is a mind fuck and a half. You can't be sure who is following you and who isn't. You can't be sure what anyone's motives really are either. I'll post another remedy to Suicide PKers.

[Surf]

Suicide PKers: It's pretty simple. Stay away from large groups of people but stay close to guards. If you notice 2 people walking in unison and towards you, they may have planned to team suicide pk you (one shooter, one looter). Your options are to run and stay out in the open where the guards can see you. The only time Suicide PKers will seek you out is if they know you have good gear, low enough hp to 1 shot and are far enough away from the rest of the NPC/player populace that they will get all the loot. SO, don't show off your metal armor mk2 if you're level 4. OH and don't chill in NCR thinking you have no chance of dying.

This is not a "workaround", the fact that suicide bombing is totally out of place and doesn't fit in the fallout universe doesn't change with your "fix".

Also - what, besides of stating the obvious, is the point of this thread?

[borse]

That should be writen by big letters on "Get started" page. We might not see an hundreds word long story how one get tent robbed, then brought the robber back to his tent to give him his stuff back and got robbed again with nice suggestion "do something".

The only real problem is the suicide pking, that should be fixed but other then that stuff like thieving, pking in encounters, tent following and so on can be dealt with with wits&reason. 

haha I remember that topic well. I'll see what I can do to get some info posted more clearly for newbs .
Yea suicide PKing is the only thing that can cause some serious grief to just about any char. Thieving, regular PKing and tent following are all preventable... PKing is only preventable if you avoid the PK hot spots

This is not a "workaround", the fact that suicide bombing is totally out of place and doesn't fit in the fallout universe doesn't change with your "fix".

Also - what, besides of stating the obvious, is the point of this thread?

yea, i know, we've come to agreement that Suicide PK is a serious problem. This includes both suicide burst and bombing. Ummm and I am very glad you asked that. The reason? Because this stuff IS obvious and players still seem to ignore it. I'm trying to illuminate the fact that people are complaining about things that are mostly preventable. Like you said, I'm stating the obvious, and players are still falling into these traps.

[kttdestroyer]

I'm not trying to be inconsiderate here but can all of you PLEASE stop moaning about things like cooldowns, full loot drop, PKers, thieves, Suicide PKers, etc... There are solutions for all of those things and these solutions do not involve developers. They involve YOU, the player.

Anytime you go anywhere but your tent/base, expect to die and lose everything on you. There are risks involved with everything on FOnline, your job is to factor in those risks and make intelligent and rational decisions to ensure your characters best interests are met.

Yes, lets close the beta stage, the game is finished. No seriously, i agree that non-constructive whinning is not very constructive. However, walking around with a big smile on your face towards everything is a non-progressive dead end.

Full loot drop: "WARNING: This game may not be suitable for young players. You may die in this game and there is no save function!" - copied and pasted from the top of the forums

Yes, and if you loose all your stuff becouse of a bug or another player abuse you are to keep quiet and be happy  


PKers: If someone kills you in an unguarded town, what does that tell you? Unguarded towns aren't safe. Do you go there again under the same conditions? no. If someone kills you right under Hub twice, do you: A) walk through that square again hoping you'll miss the encounter, OR B) walk 1 square to the left and continue on your way, with FAR less chance of being PKed.

I bet it tells one to stay away from northen towns. How good they look now, the towns are just filled with life and traders. Perfect  

And while you walk around the PK spot you fall into another PK trap (which i personally treat as abuse, as the engine is just not made for this, at least how it looks now). And what choice you have then? Well, tell me. Quit the game becouse you cant do anything and wait for next wipe or wait until tommoro, maybe better chance then  

Thieves: A bunch of bluesuits are touching your ass even while you flee and/or push them away. Do you decide to do a big 10k trade with Sha Enin? If you're a moron or a VERY quick trader, then yes.

Would you see a diffrence in real life if someone is walking forward to you and giving you first aid or stealing from you? Or, maybe it DOES look the same to change your weapon, first aid yourself, doctor, dissamble a weapon, stealing and scratching your head(oh wait, that one got its own animation).

[borse]

Yes, lets close the beta stage, the game is finished. No seriously, i agree that non-constructive whinning is not very constructive. However, walking around with a big smile on your face towards everything is a non-progressive dead end.

Full loot drop: "WARNING: This game may not be suitable for young players. You may die in this game and there is no save function!" - copied and pasted from the top of the forums

Yes, and if you loose all your stuff becouse of a bug or another player abuse you are to keep quiet and be happy  

yea sure you could do that, or since this game is in beta, you can report the bug and hope that it gets fixed for when game is released. Oh, and you should stay happy because it doesn't effect your life and well being. Honestly bro, it's just a game. I've lost tons of shit to PKers, random encounters and yes even to some bugs. Why am I still smiling? Because, although I love this game, I also realize that none of this is real. It's all pixels. Go ahead and get angry of some green colored lumps on your screen going missing (my interpretation of brotherhood armor xD lol), but I for one will stay out of that. Honestly, the last time I lost 10k caps I simply said "fuuuck", realized the game handed me a shitty card and kept playing. It's actually kind of sad that virtual items are starting to gain more value than real items. Look at wow gold, runescape items, diablo 2 items, etc... you know what I mean.

Close the beta because we don't share the same point of view, nice, I like that one (insert sarcasm).

PKers: If someone kills you in an unguarded town, what does that tell you? Unguarded towns aren't safe. Do you go there again under the same conditions? no. If someone kills you right under Hub twice, do you: A) walk through that square again hoping you'll miss the encounter, OR B) walk 1 square to the left and continue on your way, with FAR less chance of being PKed.

I bet it tells one to stay away from northen towns. How good they look now, the towns are just filled with life and traders. Perfect  

And while you walk around the PK spot you fall into another PK trap (which i personally treat as abuse, as the engine is just not made for this, at least how it looks now). And what choice you have then? Well, tell me. Quit the game becouse you cant do anything and wait for next wipe or wait until tommoro, maybe better chance then  

Yea, I personally don't go to northern towns because I prefer to be protected at a low level. I only ever go to unprotected towns with my faction. As for PK traps, you can treat them however you like, for now that is how the game runs and I agree, it's faulty. Those options are quite closed minded my friend, I'd say do something else that's productive, log onto an alt and work on that or if you rage too much like a child hitting puberty then maybe you shouldn't play to begin with?

Thieves: A bunch of bluesuits are touching your ass even while you flee and/or push them away. Do you decide to do a big 10k trade with Sha Enin? If you're a moron or a VERY quick trader, then yes.

Would you see a diffrence in real life if someone is walking forward to you and giving you first aid or stealing from you? Or, maybe it DOES look the same to change your weapon, first aid yourself, doctor, dissamble a weapon, stealing and scratching your head(oh wait, that one got its own animation).

The fact of the matter is, thieves use all these disguises to try and trick their targets into lowering their defenses. Everyone knows that thieving is VERY easy to avoid. Only those who are stubborn enough to try and trade even while thieves are present deserve to be stolen from. Simply put, trust no one, only your most trusted friends. Yes, that means people standing next to you have exclusive rights to be there because they are your friends, anyone else is a thief.

OH another tip for anti-thievery is to never leave the keyboard if you have items on you and are in town. I know I've seen some players do that. Another thing that is a little unpreventable is being disconnected and having your character sit in town with a giant thievery beacon saying (OFF). That needs to be fixed - for the most part players try and help thwart the efforts of thieves but, this logout/disconnect cooldown is not needed.

What is needed is a cooldown for people that logout or disconnect during combat. 1 minute disconnect/logout cooldown (penalty) only if done during combat (while in 'battle')

[kttdestroyer]

yea sure you could do that, or since this game is in beta, you can report the bug and hope that it gets fixed for when game is released. Honestly bro, it's just a game. I've lost tons of shit to PKers, random encounters and yes even to some bugs. Why am I still smiling? Because, although I love this game, I also realize that none of this is real. It's all pixels. Go ahead and get angry of some green colored lumps on your screen going missing (my interpretation of brotherhood armor xD lol), but I for one will stay out of that. Honestly, the last time I lost 10k caps I simply said "fuuuck", realized the game handed me a shitty card and kept playing.
Close the beta because we don't share the same point of view, nice, I like that one (insert sarcasm).

Thats what many posts are about, whinning=bug reports. Other whinning is just ignored or moved. Its not about getting angry but enjoying the game. If you get killed in a guarded town and looted by killer friend, then there is not much to enjoy about? remember that this is not ment to happen, its a bug that is hard to deal with, it is NOT a feature like you seem to be claming most of the bugs/abuse possible areas are.

Yea, I personally don't go to northern towns because I prefer to be protected at a low level. I only ever go to unprotected towns with my faction. As for PK traps, you can treat them however you like, for now that is how the game runs and I agree, it's faulty. Those options are quite closed minded my friend, I'd say do something else that's productive, log onto an alt and work on that or if you rage too much like a child hitting puberty then maybe you shouldn't play to begin with?

Alts are not ment to be.

Well, we could just remove everything from the game and have a simple dice roll, when you walk to town you roll a dice (if you suceed you get 10k caps, if you fail your caps will be stolen). Dice roll over everything. Becouse, what decision can you make here? There is not any sure reward from your decision making.

The fact of the matter is, thieves use all these disguises to try and trick their targets into lowering their defenses. Everyone knows that thieving is VERY easy to avoid. Only those who are stubborn enough to try and trade even while thieves are present deserve to be stolen from. Simply put, trust no one, only your most trusted friends. Yes, that means people standing next to you have exclusive rights to be there because they are your friends, anyone else is a thief.

OH another tip for anti-thievery is to never leave the keyboard if you have items on you and are in town. I know I've seen some players do that. Another thing that is a little unpreventable is being disconnected and having your character sit in town with a giant thievery beacon saying (OFF). That needs to be fixed - for the most part players try and help thwart the efforts of thieves but, this logout/disconnect cooldown is not needed.

What is needed is a cooldown for people that logout or disconnect during combat. 1 minute disconnect/logout cooldown (penalty) only if done during combat (while in 'battle')

Well, best way to avoid thieves is to not walk into guarded towns at all (thats a solution by walking your path of thinking). Have you ever got a thief walking after you all the time? and even if you kill him he comes back 1 min later? Or a thief that puts stuff into your pocket (this bug is fixed now i blieve) and gives you message "someone tried to steal from you" and when you kill him, the guards kill you. So, the best solution is to go to NCR naked, lets have 20 bluesuits running around on the market, i mean, who doesint enjoy some blue colour for a change?

[zato1]

pk traps are among the more engaging elements of the game, i for one would be a very sad panda if the system is changed so you are only able to encounter similar forces -- on to the topic...

surf solar, hes posting because these are all incredibly obvious things that people blatantly refuse to learn. its astonishing really. you see the rules for cars posted everywhere now, yet just yesterday i manage to find two unguarded cars within minutes of each other. good thing i'm not a locksmith? well, one guy lost his buggy, but i don't feel bad about it, because the ability to protect your car is well within the grasp of even a solo player and failure to do is infact, laziness... which the game is built around punishing.

do i think that the game should reward other things besides tactical prowess and greater understanding of the rules? absolutely. suicide ganking and such are stupid -- we all agree.

but, thats how the game is, right now. theres a popular saying that goes 'Adapt or die'...... think that applies here. advocate for new changes all you want but make sure you understand the current ones first because if you dont, chances are you won't be having much fun.

[Trokanis]

Well without any negative effects in game for people who steal from you in guarded towns, and bomb you, it's just gonna keep happening.  The wasteland is harsh, yeah, but this is if I remember correctly a GAME?  I could be wrong, but I think I read that somewhere.  Should people stop whining?  Sure.  Should everyone learn the difference between whining and justified displeasure with actions and options, umn YEAH.  It sucks ASS when you lose everything but that's part of the game, when you're in the soo called 'Most powerful city in the wasteland' and get pickpocketed by the same person who has been stealing from everyone for weeks.  Maybe that should be looked at.  If Billy bob is running around blowing up Sha Enin over and over, maybe he should be KoS for a long time in game.  But that's just realism.  Guard's 2 second memory is somewhat prohibitive to inexperienced players.

It's soo easy to call someone whiner when whatever their talking about hasn't or doesn't happen to you all the time.  And in some cases some people may actually be whining.  Here's a scary option for the next time a thread pops up like the one people are hinting at in this one.  Try being constructive to the person.  They may learn and you may see less whining on the boards.  (If people stop crying at the whiners, they may just go away.) 

[Keldorn]

Cooldowns:  Are they supposed to "regulate in game items" and keep them from being "abundant"?  If so then what about mass murdering folks for their loot.  So are coooldowns supposed to encourage a raider  playstyle?

Full Loot Drop:  Still don't understand why it has to be imposed on everyone.  I have heard things from "making items  more important cause you can lose them" to "controlling the amount of good in goods in game", to "thats what justifies PVP".  Losing BA doesn't make me feel like its more precious, its just a reminder I should go out and kill someone for it (AKA roleplay a raider).  Otherwise we can do it the "legit" way (slimulator of waiting).  Controlling the amount of goods in game can be handled in a variety of ways(from dishing out good loot to FLD flagged areas or FLD flagged events only to the proposed earned Tier 3 crafting).  Justification for PVP is in the same vein.  Whats so good about stealing a noobie bluesuits regular ore and minerals?  Or killing someone for their gunbook or scorpion tales?  Or how about stealing their mining tools or thier 10mm pistol? How does this improve the game in anyway?   I can understand the phrase of "No risk no reward".  But losing basic shit has no possible rewards but all the risk to new folks. Keep in mind TIME has value.  People arn't angry because of a pixilated hammer.  They are angry because someone is wasting their time (they are not geting any rewards besides just playing the game.  BTW if your answer is to "quit the game", a lot of folks have already.

Pkers:  Well every MMO has them and your not going to avoid them.  FLD in certain areas I even encourage (to enhance the "risk vs reward scenario).  But again pking lowbies trying to get started seems to me pointless griefing and has no positive affects for the game.

Thieves:  The only problem I see with thieves is that they are a large nusiance to the game and a deterrence for trading in certain towns.  The gains are negligible (since as op said smart folks dont carry good shit with them) yet they can be a serious annoyance to trading.  Micromanaging the sea of useless junk on vendors is bad enough but now folks have to stop abruptly everytime a thief tests thier attention span by using FA or any other skill on them.  Honestl I don't understand the benefits of thievery.

Suicide Pkers: No excuse for this happening as it is clearly not intended by the devs (besides etchnical issues).  

One cannot plan for any and every situation (especially considering this is a beta).  I agree some fols get too angry at certain problems but it doesn't mean that anger is not justified.
  

[borse]

I see what you're saying now. It's because of cooldowns that time is so valuable on FOnline and because of that items become extremely valuable. I had some idea's for suggestion forum like, while in a random encounter, there is a chance of random NPC's discovering your encounter. This may promote NPC farming but will prevent PVP camping since there is a chance of hostile factions joining the encounter. But think about FLD for a second and how you have played the fallout games. For me, I only played fallout 3 and in my time playing that game, I tended to kill anyone I saw in the wastes, took their stuff and used it to repair, sell, expand my empire. FLD is a boon and a burden for players in this game.

[Keldorn]

Well never liked F3 much at all, especially how weapons degrade.  Ya ya I know its realism but realism in this game seems to be a pick and choose affair.

I feel more for the lowbes who don't have buddies and thanks the the ever increasing paranoia, continue to not make them.

I can't tell ou how many times some asshat told me he was going to fa or how he agreed to peace.  So like an idiot I believe them (or since I am not playing the raider way) I trust them and end up getting some form of metal sandwich.  What does he gain for this senseless violence?  He gains a gunbook, 100 caps, and like 2 hides and some lulz.

What do I gain from this??  Well  I died near NCR and since I was still low no OD.  So I get to have lots of fucking fun walking my ass back down to the Hub to get another gunbook.  Oh yeah, that was after shovelling a ton of shit again to get caps.

See what I am getting at here?  PVP for folks who are badass is fine, they need something to do to and to vent frustration.  But fucking with a lowbie is not cool and is totaly detrimental to the game.  

What pisses me off the most however is all these pk folks bitching about how theres not enough pvp and all this bullshit.  Well maybe if they weren't so happy raping nubs, thos nubs might not have raged quit, gotten a chance to get geared, levelleled, and we would have another pvper ready to go.

It really takes a masochist to keep playing this game regardlessof the bullshit.  Unfortunately, your average gamer isn't gonna put up with it and move onto games with better pvp such as Diablo or FPS, etc.  And ofcourse the server remains barren and empty.